mrv 

edit: PTO: power take out for USB power. Meant to put "power" in the title... oops

howdy -
Setting up my first DYNO hub - I'm not counting that bottle dyno I had on my Huffy when I was 10.
My set up is (or will be shortly):
Kasai Dyno: https://www.kasai-tech.com/dynacoil-rb.html (being built up now with an ATLAS 26in rim by my LBS)
B&M Headlamp: https://www.bumm.de/en/products/dyna...52qtsndi.html? (got it half priced here)
SuperNova Tail Lamp: https://supernova-lights.com/en/prod...ail-light-2-6v (LBS got it for me)

I'm looking for something very much like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kemo-M-172N.../dp/B00DF4JOIM
- which if I double the cost I can get it from eBay (shipping is the same as the part cost)

I see Peter White lists some good stuff, just more than I'm ready to pay this week. And there's a long list of Euro-stuff here: https://www.cyclingabout.com/list-of...r-usb-devices/

Finally - my question: for stuff readily available in the USA, what are you folks using?
Suggestions for the budget minded tourer / wannabe Rando-rider / semi-Pro Coffeeneuring Cyclist?
Has anyone done one as a home project?
- I'm still reading up on that as a bit. I have co-workers who could build one for me, or at least tell me how to put one together.
- the input voltage on this thing is higher than the hub under load..... https://www.banggood.com/10pcs-AC-DC...e=CN&rmmds=buy
- If I attempt this, I've not got a lot of confidence it'll still be working when I get off the AMTRAK and reach the western terminus of the Katy Trail.... https://electronics.stackexchange.co...6v-ac-to-5v-dc

I think that's it.
Cheers!

Similar Thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/electroni...charger-5.html

base2 

I have the Revolution & the Reactor from https://www.sinewavecycles.com/

Both work about the same. The Reactor needs routing up through the bottom of the steerer. So, carbon forks are probably out. But steel, aluminum, whatever else using a standard star nut is probably fine if there is a hole straight out the bottom of the fork crown to fish a wire up through. The super-secret trick is to use a single strand of brake/shift wire to feed the electrical lead through the star-nut. Removing or modifying an existing star-nut is a royal PIA.

I find that Son Dynamos tend to work a bit better than Shutter Precision when charging a device & powering lights. Both work well enough to not really present any issues or complaints, though.

In either case: There are only so many electrons to go around.
An effective strategy at resource management is to start with the lights OFF & your device plugged in.

Ride a bit until your device starts to charge.

While charging, on the device turn on any power saving features & DISABLE any screen illumination when power is detected.

Then proceed as normal.

The kick to illuminate the screen is just a bridge too far & unless traveling at 45+ kph there just isn't enough electrons available. The resulting voltage drop of the screen, drops the whole system out of charge mode.

Some devices are more picky than others.

unterhausen

These things seem awfully expensive. I just carry portable charge packs. My experience with my Luxos-U charging things wasn't great. I never used it to charge a battery pack though, that seems like the best usage. Garmin devices hate having the external power interrupted and that's what I tried to do with it.

mrv 

thanks, base2 - I've got a quill stem. '89 Panasonic Mountain Kat. Hence the 26in wheel mentioned.
I've seen the sign wave. co-signer wave. irrelevant tangent wave. I mean sinewave - I was hoping to find something cheaper (i really like that German one with the switch, that's pretty sweet...). which lead to unterhausen 's comments: yes, quite. The hub. the lights. Now an inverter....
I've got a couple of long tours coming up, a 4~5 day trek, and a 7 ~ 8 day trek. I've had a little 10Ah pack last 5 days riding the GAP/ C&O. I used it only for my iPhone. We only had to use lights a small bit of the whole trip. I've wanted to get away from having to keep lights charged, and thinking about the battery pack, and do I need to plug in my phone during lunch.... and all that stuff. I just charge up while riding - hopefully with no worries.

I don't use a Garmin (that's mo' money!), I just use my phone GPS.

thanks, y'all. hopefully an EE or that guy from ElectroBOOM on YouTube will post a reply.

adamrice 

I wouldn't worry about whether something is actually sold by a U.S. vendor. International shipping works.

I've got a kLite system, which comes from Australia but you can in fact get from a U.S.-based merchant, jefe.bike; that's a light/USB rectifier combo platter. I'm also interested in the Igaro, which comes from the UK.

Tourist in MSN

Generically, I agree with others that suggest just bringing a big power bank on a bike tour if it is a short tour instead of investing in the USB charging gear. But in my opinion, if you are touring for more than a week, then investing in the dyno powered USB charger makes sense. My last bike tour was five weeks and most of that time I was self sufficient for all my electric needs from the dynohub.

I used a Sinewave Revolution for about six years, was very happy with it, still have it. I think it is the best waterproofed charger out there.
https://www.sinewavecycles.com/produ...ave-revolution

But last summer I decided to buy the Cycle2Charge, it puts out about 50 percent more power than the Sinewave. I have not used it for touring yet, but so far I think it will be my new go to USB charger for touring. The Sinewave did not put out much more power than I needed on a tour for charging up GPS, headlamp (for my head in campsite), taillight batteries for my flasher, camera batteries, phone, etc. The Cycle2Charge should put out enough that I do not have to be obsessive about conserving my electric power.
https://www.cycle2charge.de/index.php/en/

I bought my Cycle2Charge from Amazon in Germany. They charge in Euros or will do the currency conversion for a small fee. I told them to charge my credit card in Euros because my card does not charge a fee for currency conversion. I think shipping was about two or three weeks total. But some credit cards in USA charge 3 percent fee for currency conversion.
https://www.amazon.de/Cycle2Charge-V...B&currency=EUR

Peter White suggests that Supernova headlamp and taillight should be used together and not mixed with other brands. In other words, your taillight might not work with your headlamp. I have never used Supernova, so I do not have any more detail on this. I have only used B&M or Spanninga taillights with B&M or AXA headlamps, those brands all play well with each other.

I wrote up a description of how I wired up my lights and charger at this link if you are curious:
https://www.bikeforums.net/electroni...b-charger.html

I have bought a lot of bike stuff from Europe, you should not be nervous about buying from there. Shipping takes a bit more time, but generally you should not have any problems.

2_i 

I use Lumi-Con Bike-Harvester P5 (Germany). The price w/shipping was just about the same as Sinwave Revolution, but there is way more functionality, as you always have power, whether riding or not, and the batteries get charged during riding. However, you have to provide the batteries yourself and the unit is bulkier and in an overall more awkward housing. I placed the unit inside a water bottle pouch pocket. It has been excellent. The delivery time was of a week or something, not worth a yawn. If you need, you can charge it with an AC USB charger.

mrv 

welp, to quote what my German colleague might say: Scheiße

You are correct. Peter White states:
The Supernova E3 Pro headlight converts AC (alternating current) from the hub dynamo into DC (direct current) for the LEDs. The output from the E3 Pro headlight to the taillight (red & blue wires) is also DC. The taillight cannot use the AC from the hub dynamo, it must receive only DC. The electronics that convert AC to DC are only in the headlight, not in the taillight. So, you must never attach the 161-T taillight directly to a dynamo. It can only be used when attached to the red & blue output wires from the E3 Pro headlight, or the E3 Triple.
Scheiße
- I am trying to support my LBS by buying the tail light from him, I guess it's a case of let no good deed goes unpunished.
Neither of us realized this would be the case. I guess it simplifies things for SuperNova as far as parts compatibility to e-Bikes (cursed e-bikes....)

So my options are: different tail light if my LBS can swap out the tail light.... I might not have kept all the packaging materials.......
Option 2: get a SuperNova headlamp so my LBS owner can support his family, and I put my B&M headlamp up for sale right here!
Option 3..... ?

As Unterhausen might say: Diese Scheiße ist sicher teuer!!
... or he might not since I'm sure he wouldn't use bad language on the message boards....

Scheiße

Tourist in MSN

I would try to return the taillight. I assume you have a battery taillight already, use that for now.

Not sure what your reason(s) is to have the lights and USB charger.

I bought my first dynohub in 2013, my plan was to only use it for USB power when touring. But since I had it, I later bought a headlight too. For several years I only used a battery taillight because I mostly wanted a taillight as a flasher in daytime. But since I had the headlight and dynohub, later bought a used taillight at a swap meet so I had the full system of front and rear lights, with USB charger on one bike.

And over time added dynohubs and lights to other bikes too. So, now have lights front and rear with dynohubs on four bikes. The USB charger goes on the bike where it is most desired.

That said, my last bike tour, I used my S&S coupled bike. If you do not know what that means, the short version is that I had to completely disassemble my bike to get it onto the airplane and reassemble later. And repeat to go home again. WIring up the lights when I expected to never need them is a hassle so I did not even have dyno powered lights on my bike for that five week tour, the dynohub was exclusively used for battery charging. I had a battery powered headlamp if I needed it, but never did. And I always have battery taillights because I like to have a flasher in daytime. Touring, I always have two flashers, one is usually used but if foggy may have the second one on too.

Or, more simply, my reasons are (1) when near home I have the lights on the bike because I already have dynohubs so the lights make sense. And (2) when touring, the dyno powered lights might never be turned on since I want as much dynohub power as possible to go into my batteries.

I also do a bit of randonneuring, but not enough to require dyno powered lights, but they are nice to have installed.

It might not be your local bike shop but it is a USA local bike shop that has a taillight that should work.
https://www.perennialcycle.com/busch...-bam-3234.html

I think this is a dyno powered light, you would have to verify that, from Europe and would be cheaper than the one above.
https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/...ht/137505078/p

Or, just use dyno powered taillights permanently.

Another light, I have one of these on my road bike right now, but this is best on a bike without a rack. I have it on the seat stay.
https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/...ht/137505091/p

2_i 

Isn't tradeinn.com a scam?

cuevélo

I've ordered once or twice from them before without problems, shipped to USA.

mrv 

quick update: Chatted with the LBS owner. He said, yes, he can return the SuperNova tail light. Then he made me an offer I didn't want to refuse. He cut me a super deal on a SuperNova headlamp: https://supernova-lights.com/en/products/e3-pro-2
- so that's what's on order. (i dunno, does making massive upgrades to cheap vintage bikes run counter to buying a cheap vintage bike? or is it just making upgrades......?)
As far a 5V PTO, I'm still mulling that over. I could go in-line with a SineWave Revolution. Might due that.
I could cobble a 6V DC to 5V DC step down converter and charge my iPhone off of the tail light circuit, which would turn off the tail light. Fine on MUPs and trails. Counter-Safety for night riding, of course.....
I'll post updates as they happen, probably. So as to bring this thread to a useful conclusion.

Thanks for everyone's comments. Hopefully some additional thoughts will pop up.

cheers!

CliffordK

The best prices I've found for German produced products have been from:

www.bike-discount.de

So, items like Wippermann chains, Busch + Müller, etc.

Busch + Müller USB Werk:

https://www.bike-discount.de/de/busc...und-ladegeraet

They also have a universal Werk which I think allows you to set the output voltage to whatever you want.

https://www.bike-discount.de/de/busc...und-ladegeraet

As far as tail lights. The one issue I've encountered is that I very much prefer blinking tail lights, and solid head lights.

However, Germany doesn't like blinking tail lights. And this causes a problem for the US Market of Generator based tail lights.

I think Germany requires most bikes to have a generator, so they're a huge market for those products.

The last time I used www.bike-discount.de, I thought shipping was high for small orders, but was reasonable if one picked up a couple of Wippermann chains too.

Tourist in MSN

I have placed several orders from them. Shipping times are sometimes slower than anticipated but I got everything I ordered, eventually. If I am placing a big order, I use Bike24 in Germany, but if my order is small then the large shipping fee from Bike24 is a bit excessive. In that case, BikeInn is often more competitive if they have what I want.

Tourist in MSN

Right after I bought my first dynohub, I was really thinking that the cost of USB chargers powered by a dynohub were absurdly expensive. So, decided to build my own. Blew out several circuits. Then I went down a hill one time with a multimeter reading my AC voltage out of my hub under no load conditions and I had 30 some volts. So, that is why my circuits were blowing out. I then chucked all DIY plans and bought commercial ones.

2_i 

I built my own circuits for managing dynohub power, when there was nothing serious available in the market and the focus needed to be on being extremely frugal with power, as incandescent lights were power hungry. In fact I am still using my 97% efficient circuit that turned out to be versatile enough to work with LEDs just as well. Based on that experience, I can tell that, if I wanted to develop a circuit by myself, with the functionality of Bike Harvester, I would have to spent an order of magnitude more than its price. Those circuits are cheap and some, like that Bike Harvester, are dirt cheap.

mrv 

- I forget where I read it, Peter White or maybe some kind of EE DiY page, they mentioned the voltage going to 60V with 0A load applied
I see some of the inverters with an input voltage of like 50V to 240V (going by memory...), so I figure with MORE TIME I can find something operating at a lower voltage.

I live in the DC-world (low volt automotive batteries & power supply stuff....), so I find the hub generator DC stuff very interesting. Probably I'll buy something off the shelf, as 2_i mentions. Relatively speaking, the off the shelf stuff is cheap. Messing around with building something is only going to make me better at what my employer wants me to do! Ha!

Tourist in MSN

If you are used to designing this stuff, great. If my recollection is correct, the stuff I kept blowing out was capacitors.

And since Supernova apparently uses DC for taillight where others use an AC taillight, you will probably be very happy with your Supernova system if you are used to working with low volt DC circuits.

I was really happy with the Sinewave Revolution, but I think I will be happier with the Cycle2Charge. But for your Katy trail trip, a big powerbank would probably meet your needs.

If my plan works out, I will be starting a two week bike tour in a bit under four weeks with an old friend that I have toured with before. I will be using my Cycle2Charge and I will loan my Sinewave to my friend. On this trip we anticipate only being near an outlet to plug into for more power for one night at a motel. I will be using a bike wired for dyno lighting but I expect my dyno powered lights will always be off, the AAA powered rear flasher on. And once a week I recharge my AAA batteries to keep them bright.

2_i 

That can be an important take. Without that bike circuit building experience, I wouldn't have been where I am right now in my day job. Through partial overlap, I managed to get better both on the hobby side and some daily work activities.

Tourist in MSN

I mentioned above that I was happy with the Sinewave Revolution, but I think I will be happier with the Cycle2Charge. This past summer I noticed that the US Dollar was very strong against the Euro and the GBP, so started wondering if there was anything I should buy while it was essentially on sale. A couple years ago considred the Cycle2Charge at that time, but did not get it. This past late summer and early fall I bought the Cycle2Charge and also a couple Carradice bags from the UK.

I have a good powerbank with pass through capability, so a charger that lacks a battery is not a problem for me. My Sinewave did not play well with my Garmin, but I found that I can charge my Garmin directly off of the Cycle2Charge. My Garmin is a non-cycling one, so my Garmin experience likely is quite different than others on this forum.

On exercise rides on my rando bike on fairly flat ground (ideal circumstances) my Sinewave put out about 2.52 watts. Another exercise ride, had 2.4 watts. Unfortunately I did write down my Cycle2Charge numbers from an equivalent ride, but I did measure (short term) the Cylce2Charge delivered - about 0.8 amps, or 3.9 watts at 11 mph and about 1.0 amps, or 4.8 watts at 15 mph. The Cycle2Charge put out zip below 6.5 mph and only put out power with lights off, the Sinewave will put out a small amount of power at slow speeds or with lights on, so a direct amperage to amperage comparison at specific speeds would not reflect typical touring experience. On my rando bike on an exercise ride with lights on (B&M IQ-XS and Spanninga Pixeo) my Sinewave put out 1.06 watts but the Cycle2Charge would put out zip with lights on.

Both of these chargers are not cheap, but I put a high value on a reliable source of power when touring where I will be away from any outlets to plug into for over a week at a time. If the next gas station is over 200 km away, you know your won't find power for quite a while on a long tour.

2_i 

I ride enough many bikes so no circuit gets wasted. When Bike Harvester came in, the Sinewave Revolution just got moved to another bike, and my own circuit rides still on another bike. My shift with power banks was to use shells for 18650 cells. These cells can be moved between devices and upgraded without tossing away the hardware. Bike Harvester takes 2 such cells, so it fitted well with power banks, headlamp, etc. My handlebars are overflowing with stuff and, while there is room for a standalone powerbank, I'd rather not add it, particularly for shorter rides. The extra power being there, without needing any preparation is just convenient.

The strength of the dollar and price differences are indeed often astounding. I was ordering snow tires from EU for the family and, by mistake, I ordered more than needed, forgetting that a couple of tires were already there in the storage. After I sold the excess on Ebay, I turned out they nearly paid for the whole order, shipping included.

mrv 

Dyno wheel done
Hooked everything up and did a shake down ride.
Next step is getting the wire trimmed. Then get a bypass switch for the PTO.
it’s all very exciting. I can’t wait.

Tourist in MSN

I am not sure what you have for USB charger, but when I am not charging anything from my USB charger (Cycle2Charge, Sinewave Revolution, several years ago an AXA headlamp with USB charger), almost no power is consumed by the USB charger, so no need to add a switch. I leave my USB charger wired into the circuit full time.

If your USB charger has a battery as part of it, then it can draw power when nothing is plugged into it. Thus, maybe a switch might give better lighting if you disconnect the charger?

Germany_chris

I had the B&M USB Werk and it was fine, if I was using a quill stem it's the direction I'd go but then again 15000-20000 mAh battery packs aren't that expensive anymore.