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Colnago Super Sprint

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Colnago Super Sprint

Old 10-02-22, 04:23 PM
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nenad
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Colnago Super Sprint

After all the research I've done, I am pretty sure I am looking at Colnago Super Sprint: style of seat post cluster, cable guide holes are both on top of TT, slotted BB with cable guides. Frames with such characteristics were produced '87 to '89 so here comes the curious part:

1. The paint - LUX (Art Decor)
2. The rear dropouts - vertical (read: modern)

Additional info:

- frame weight: 2200 grams at size 60
- normal, non oversized, tubing
- rear spacing: 130mm
- the paint, though not original, is a quality job.

Rear wheel in, frame is straight as an arrow. The way I see it, right before the new paint job came the new dropouts. Or is there more to it? Let me know what you think or if there's any additional info I'm missing.






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Old 10-03-22, 03:05 AM
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Your paint scheme looks very reminiscent of one of my bikes. Mine is a 2001 Aluminium Dream Lux with an "LX" paint scheme. I think this paint scheme is quite achievable for an amateur painter yet it looks impressive. I know there are lots of Colnago Decor paint schemes.



I also think the entry hole for the rear brake cable is interesting. I have 2 Colnago's with the entry hole on top of the top tube - a 1991 Super Piu and a 1991 Conic Total Spiral SLX. Quite often Colnago's have the internal rear brake cable entry holes on the lefthand side of the top tube. I agree with your frame build estimation. The features of your frame tend to indicate a cheaper build and either an International or a Super Sprint would be pretty good guesses. It's a nice bike to own.

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Old 10-03-22, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Fountain
Your paint scheme looks very reminiscent of one of my bikes. Mine is a 2001 Aluminium Dream Lux with an "LX" paint scheme. I think this paint scheme is quite achievable for an amateur painter yet it looks impressive. I know there are lots of Colnago Decor paint schemes.

I also think the entry hole for the rear brake cable is interesting. I have 2 Colnago's with the entry hole on top of the top tube - a 1991 Super Piu and a 1991 Conic Total Spiral SLX. Quite often Colnago's have the internal rear brake cable entry holes on the lefthand side of the top tube. I agree with your frame build estimation. The features of your frame tend to indicate a cheaper build and either an International or a Super Sprint would be pretty good guesses. It's a nice bike to own.
It was your frame I was looking at that gave me queues that paint on my Colnago, though nice, was not original; my dilemma now is if I should go for a repaint. Initially, I was planning to.
So, we agree on the year and the model, the last unexplained part remain the dropouts. Speaking of, they are quite similar to what you have on your Dream. Mine have holes and non replaceable hanger, but the shape look almost identical.
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Old 10-04-22, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by nenad
It was your frame I was looking at that gave me queues that paint on my Colnago, though nice, was not original; my dilemma now is if I should go for a repaint. Initially, I was planning to.
So, we agree on the year and the model, the last unexplained part remain the dropouts. Speaking of, they are quite similar to what you have on your Dream. Mine have holes and non replaceable hanger, but the shape look almost identical.
The dropouts were my big question too. They had me thinking that perhaps your frame was manufactured in the early 90's? I'm a real fan of Colnago bikes from that general era as they were the bikes I dreamt of owning but I'm not that conversant with models I had no contact with. I have only ever seen one or two International or Super Sprint models in my life and I do appreciate that certain Colnago models had upgrades as time progressed. I can well imagine vertical rear dropouts being introduced somewhere along a model variant's lifespan. And, add to that, the general lack of ability to pin Colnago frames down to accurate build dates.

The other glaring build feature is the attachment process of brazing the seat stays to the seat cluster - no seat stay caps - a probable feature of a lower end frame?

All that being said, I think it's really very interesting and challenging to collect frames a little lower down on the quality scale. These are usually frames that receive little collector respect and general interest and initial owners don't really look after such bikes - they are probably much rarer. Even though the Internationals/Super Sprints weren't Colnago's top models, they were still quality frames and they probably have lovely ride qualities like all Colnago's do. I really like bikes (and components) a little down the 'pecking order'.

Would I re-paint this frame if it were mine? I'm probably thinking along the same track you are. It's really hard to remove a paint job that's in very good condition and I would initially leave it as it is at the moment. Knowing myself reasonably well, this paint job would play on my mind over time and I would find myself eventually burning it off (I love burning off paint finishes with a blow torch - clean and quick and I think it 'normalises' the frame tubes) and re-painting it - but only after a bit of research looking at Super Sprints and how they were initially presented - and also considering the complexity of the paint schemes used. (Disclaimer: I have the means to re-painting a bike frame - much cheaper than farming it out to a professional painter to re-finish. Something I neglect to take into account - $'s don't grow on trees.)

Often a re-painted bike will have remnants of an original paint finish on the steerer tups or perhaps in the bottom bracket shell. I wonder if your frame could reveal an original paint colour?
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Old 10-04-22, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary Fountain
The dropouts were my big question too. They had me thinking that perhaps your frame was manufactured in the early 90's? I'm a real fan of Colnago bikes from that general era as they were the bikes I dreamt of owning but I'm not that conversant with models I had no contact with. I have only ever seen one or two International or Super Sprint models in my life and I do appreciate that certain Colnago models had upgrades as time progressed. I can well imagine vertical rear dropouts being introduced somewhere along a model variant's lifespan. And, add to that, the general lack of ability to pin Colnago frames down to accurate build dates.

The other glaring build feature is the attachment process of brazing the seat stays to the seat cluster - no seat stay caps - a probable feature of a lower end frame?

All that being said, I think it's really very interesting and challenging to collect frames a little lower down on the quality scale. These are usually frames that receive little collector respect and general interest and initial owners don't really look after such bikes - they are probably much rarer. Even though the Internationals/Super Sprints weren't Colnago's top models, they were still quality frames and they probably have lovely ride qualities like all Colnago's do. I really like bikes (and components) a little down the 'pecking order'.

Would I re-paint this frame if it were mine? I'm probably thinking along the same track you are. It's really hard to remove a paint job that's in very good condition and I would initially leave it as it is at the moment. Knowing myself reasonably well, this paint job would play on my mind over time and I would find myself eventually burning it off (I love burning off paint finishes with a blow torch - clean and quick and I think it 'normalises' the frame tubes) and re-painting it - but only after a bit of research looking at Super Sprints and how they were initially presented - and also considering the complexity of the paint schemes used. (Disclaimer: I have the means to re-painting a bike frame - much cheaper than farming it out to a professional painter to re-finish. Something I neglect to take into account - $'s don't grow on trees.)

Often a re-painted bike will have remnants of an original paint finish on the steerer tups or perhaps in the bottom bracket shell. I wonder if your frame could reveal an original paint colour?
Let me share with you info on Super Sprint model and then we'll discuss it further.

Super Sprint supersedes International. It is an entry model. It has unique seatstay ends that curve inwards (I prefer the look of stays supporting seat post from the back as opposed to being on the side of it), slotted bottom bracket with guides, entry and exit brake cable guides on top of top tube, Columbus SL Cromor sticker, lack of clover on brake bridge as follows:







There is an earlier version of this frame that has rear brake external cable guide running atop of top tube:



Moving forward, starting in 1991 which you are familiar with, Super Sprint is superseded by Super '91. It looks almost the same as Super Sprint with 3 visible differences: brake cable guide entry is at the bottom of top tube, bottom bracket is full with screw on cable guide and it has a different Columbus/Colnago sticker (Super '91 sticker).





Colnago Super '91 is then superseded with Colnago C 94, 95, 96, 97 frames that use Columbus Thron Super tubing, have slightly different style of seatstays and come with clover on rear brake bridge, making them easier to differentiate.

So, by looking at all of the above, what I have is a Super Sprint whose last year of production would be 1990 otherwise it would have features of Super '91. I hope this explains the enigma behind the dropouts and 130 mm rear spacing: this is not a mid or late '90s frame, this is a late '80s or a 1990 frame at best. So now that we know all this, what is the story? Let me know what you think.

As for the repaint, my thinking is exactly as yours, and money is no object. This is a unique frame (dare I say one of) and deserves to be enjoyed as is.

Edit: on the topic of original paint, the BB is blue like the frame around it. The head tube looks like this:




There's no way to tell if that is original but if it is, the frame was white.

Last edited by nenad; 10-04-22 at 12:38 PM. Reason: to add further info
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Old 10-04-22, 04:49 PM
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Wow, great information. I do agree that your frame must be a Super Sprint and it could have originally been white. I wonder if the 'LX' or 'decor' paint finishes were added on top of the original colour just to 'fancy it up'? White would be the base colour no doubt - whether it was original or the new base of a total re-paint may never be clear. My guess - the original colour is white. Great photo down the steerer tube.

Now those really interesting rear dropouts and 130mm spacing. I think the obvious explanation is that it was setup for 8 speeds. Was it originally Campagnolo or Shimano? I don't think it really matters but it would be nice to know. I suppose you could originally buy this as a complete bike or a frameset and add any components you like.

The build date, as you point out is important. The Super Sport model seems to have come to an end in 1990 and yours is most probably a Super Sprint. But I think Shimano 8 speed was introduced in 1991 and Campagnolo 8 speed was also introduced in 1991 but only available in 1992 (I think). I also think those vertical rear dropouts were introduced around that time as the Shimano and Campagnolo indexing through 'brifters' benefited by having the rear wheel in a constant position. Then again, Campagnolo had indexing through down tube Synchro shifters prior to the 'brifters' where indexing was based within the brake levers.

When were the vertical dropouts actually introduced by Colnago? It must have been around this time but I can't find that information anywhere. Were they introduced just before the 8 Speed developments by Shimano and Campagnolo?

Could the rear spacing have been reset on this frame from 126mm to 130mm? Perhaps this is a way of making a frame built in 1989 or 1990 suit 8 speeds?

I must admit that I don't put much faith in holding Colnago to actual dates. I wonder if the Super Sprint model was generally stopped in 1990 but perhaps some of the contracted little framebuilders around Italy, producing lower end frames for Colnago continued to run out components until they were gone but adapted the frames to suit 8 speeds??? Thus a Super Sprint built for 8 speeds??? Taking the Super Sprint model past 1990 and overlapping the "Super 91" model.

I also find it very interesting to see the Super Sprints made from Columbus Cromor SL. I wonder where the frame decal went? They are stuck on very well. Perhaps this is another indication the frame was completely re-painted? Anyway Columbus Cromor SL - a seamed tubing and drawn out to replicate Columbus SL. I have had 3 (still got 1) Pinarello's built from Cromor (Asolo model) and they ride beautifully but I was told that these Cromor frames replicated Columbus SLX. Riding these bikes, I could not tell the difference from Cromor or SLX. I would guess that the weight of the frames were very similar too. My guess is that your Cromor frame would be indistinguishable from Columbus SL - a great tubeset.

Another question. I know Colnago introduced painted on 'Colnago' lettering to help stop their frames being counterfeited but I am unsure as to when this happened? I wonder if the newer Super Sprints had stuck on or applied 'Colnago' decals. You show an older Super Sprint with stuck on decals. My guess is that they would have still had stuck on decals - decals applied on top of the painted finish. My Colnago frames of a similar vintage have stuck on decals as far as I can make out. My bikes, of a very similar vintage, have the thinest of decals and it is really difficult to tell if they are on top of the painted finish or under a clear coat - as I stated, I think they are on top of the painted finish. The frame material (Columbus) decals are much thicker and are definitely on top of the painted finish. If the 'Colnago' are on top of the finish, they are very tough and not easily damaged unlike a Pinarello of a similar vintage. Where did the decals on your frame go? Could be another indication of a total re-paint or perhaps just removed to allow an 'LX' or decor upgrade to the finish?

This is an interesting frame. Your research is pretty damn good.

Just another thank you and another topic - I understand Poland is helping and making a real difference to the lives of the desperate Ukrainian's who have been left homeless - thank you.

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Old 10-05-22, 03:02 AM
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Just to add to the story: I have a 1991 Colnago Super SL that was a professional Belgian team bike - 'Collstrop Isoglass' in the original colour. This team only used these Colnago's for the one year - 1991 so I have no real problem dating the frame. My only question could be that the frame may have been a 1990 version enabling the team to be 'up and running' for the 1991 season. originally it had a Suntour Superbe Pro groupset.

Notice the rear brake cable is routed through the top tube and both entry and exit holes are on the top of the top tube.




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Old 10-05-22, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary Fountain
Just another thank you and another topic - I understand Poland is helping and making a real difference to the lives of the desperate Ukrainian's who have been left homeless - thank you.
Let me take care of this one quickly by saying your comment is greatly appreciated, Sir.
The bike discussion continues in the next reply.
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Old 10-05-22, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary Fountain
Just to add to the story: I have a 1991 Colnago Super SL that was a professional Belgian team bike - 'Collstrop Isoglass' in the original colour. This team only used these Colnago's for the one year - 1991 so I have no real problem dating the frame. My only question could be that the frame may have been a 1990 version enabling the team to be 'up and running' for the 1991 season. originally it had a Suntour Superbe Pro groupset.

Notice the rear brake cable is routed through the top tube and both entry and exit holes are on the top of the top tube.
What a wonderful bike, no wonder people go crazy about Colnagos and Campagnolo equipment.

Well, here's Colnago catalog from 1989:
https://saarf.london/2017/01/01/coln...-1989-catalog/

And there's Colnago Super SL and Super Sprint both as complete bikes and frames (if you save images to your computer you will be able to zoom in).

Here's what it says for Super SL frame:
Columbus SL tubing * top tube with inner cable guide for cable or rear brake * tapered chainstays Colnago design * front derailleur braze-on boss * investment cast fork crown, dropouts and BB shell * BB shell with internal cable guide * chromed fork, dropouts, head lugs and R.H. chainstay

And this is info for Super Sprint:
Columbus SL Cromor tubing * top tube with inner cable guide for cable or rear brake * tapered chainstays Colnago design * front derailleur braze-on boss * investment cast fork crown * chromed fork, dropouts, head lugs and R.H. chainstay

So, the top tubes are the same for both frames. Super SL has BB shell with internal cable guide which Super Sprint apparently does not. Could you take a picture of it? I assume rear spacing on your bike is 126 mm.
Also, notice that Super Sprint as a complete bike has Columbus sticker (it is SL Cromor if you zoom in, you will see it) while the Super Sprint frame set does not (!).

The complete bike pages in the catalog answer what groups the frames came with so we do get some clarity there.
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Old 10-05-22, 06:43 PM
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Yes, I've gone crazy about Colnago and Campagnolo, haha. There's no cure either!

Thanks nenad for the copy of the '89 catalogue - I did spend some time looking at the photos and reading the information. It was interesting to see the Super Sprint frame without the tubing decal as you point out. And, in 1989, all the frames (except one) had 'horizontal' rear dropouts and Syncro gear changing systems were used whether Shimano or Campagnolo.

I have 3 of these bikes featured within the catalogue (Masterpiu, Conic SLX and Super) and it was interesting to see them all in one catalogue. I date mine a year or two newer but they are virtually the same. I also have an older Superissimo and an older Mexico and a couple of newer models. I actually have 7 Colnago's as Colnago was THE brand I really wanted but never could afford when I was younger - now - I've gone crazy, haha. One for every day of the week.

When I see your frame and can feel your love for your frame I do get a great 'vibe' from this whole 'detective' story and feel quite privileged to have taken just a little part in your process - thank you. Also, congratulations on your research and quest to find answers. I have been learning about Colnago since the early 1980's and I must admit to learning from your research so thanks for sharing this information - very much appreciated.

I see you already have some really desirable bikes/frames within your collection. I have looked at your photos with a great deal of interest. Your Colnago frame is beautiful and something tells me that you are it's perfect owner. I wonder where you and this frame will go from here? Best wishes.

Now, something a little personal, sorry. Your written English is fantastic. Are you English or a native Pole? You don't have to answer, it's just that I am impressed. The reason I ask is that I used to be a school teacher and I once had an exchange student from Poland who had a really good grasp of english. He was a very engaging student with a desire to learn.

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Old 10-06-22, 04:14 PM
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Well, you beat a friend of mine who, if I recall correctly, has 6 Colnagos

On the process of research, I also wish to thank you for going for a ride with me. The research was lots of fun and I have to admit it even got a little bit in the way of my daily activities. I will most definitely keep the frame and build a bike during the fall / winter months. As I mentioned, this one is a keeper. I'll take it nice and slow as weather in Poland will typically turn for the worse in November and stay like that until mid-March.

I also wish to thank you for lots of kind comments above. I am neither English nor Pole; been living in Poland for the past 8 years, though. English I learned during my teenage years and part of my education was through english schools. I work for a multinational so I get tons of practice

Let me ask you, do you use any kind of rust protection for your steel bikes, specifically, protecting your frames from the inside? Is rust an issue for you, considering you are in Australia and living on the coast.
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Old 10-06-22, 06:50 PM
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Hi nenad, yes, it has been fun and it did play a nice part of my day. The days are quite beautiful here as I live in a sup-tropical area and a 20 degree c is about as cold as it gets. It does heat up during summer and may average 32 to 35 degrees. The killer is humidity. The humidity and living close to the coast, during a 4 -5 month summer period, can cause problems like rust and I have noticed rubber can break down fairly quickly, e.g. soles of shoes and boots.

Strangely enough, I haven't used a 'frame saver' internally in my frames and perhaps I should. I do a little target shooting and I keep my rifles in a dry environment and regularly protect the metal surfaces both internally and externally. One thing I have just started to notice is the paint starting to lift, on my most precious bike frame, at the edge of the paint that comes up against exposed metal like areas of chrome or where the bottom bracket has been 'faced' to remove paint so the cups tighten to the BB shell.

I do have one Reynolds 531 bike frame that has lived outside, in the weather, for the past 10 years and its still in externally good enough condition, rust wise, to bring it back to life and start using again. It's just a little too small for me and I have neglected it.

I'm sorry no one else has replied to your thread as I did 'take over' and monopolise the conversation but I hope others will add to your conversation. Colnago dating is always interesting and I feel we, as a Colnago community, are becoming more and more expert in this bike brand. Wouldn't it have been wonderful if organisation of records had of been a thing within the Colnago frame building business way back in the day? It does give us something to do with our spare time, haha.

Best wishes,

Gary.



My 7 Colnago's.

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Old 10-09-22, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary Fountain
Hi nenad, yes, it has been fun and it did play a nice part of my day. The days are quite beautiful here as I live in a sup-tropical area and a 20 degree c is about as cold as it gets. It does heat up during summer and may average 32 to 35 degrees. The killer is humidity. The humidity and living close to the coast, during a 4 -5 month summer period, can cause problems like rust and I have noticed rubber can break down fairly quickly, e.g. soles of shoes and boots.

Strangely enough, I haven't used a 'frame saver' internally in my frames and perhaps I should. I do a little target shooting and I keep my rifles in a dry environment and regularly protect the metal surfaces both internally and externally. One thing I have just started to notice is the paint starting to lift, on my most precious bike frame, at the edge of the paint that comes up against exposed metal like areas of chrome or where the bottom bracket has been 'faced' to remove paint so the cups tighten to the BB shell.

I do have one Reynolds 531 bike frame that has lived outside, in the weather, for the past 10 years and its still in externally good enough condition, rust wise, to bring it back to life and start using again. It's just a little too small for me and I have neglected it.

I'm sorry no one else has replied to your thread as I did 'take over' and monopolise the conversation but I hope others will add to your conversation. Colnago dating is always interesting and I feel we, as a Colnago community, are becoming more and more expert in this bike brand. Wouldn't it have been wonderful if organisation of records had of been a thing within the Colnago frame building business way back in the day? It does give us something to do with our spare time, haha.

Best wishes,

Gary.
Oh man, what a collection. I wonder how the ALU frame rides compared to others. Also, among those, is there a favorite you have?

Let me tell you, consensus online is that steel bikes that are held indoors in dry do not need to be rustproofed. My Colnago showed just a bit of rust (patina?) in few places around BB area so I decided to protect it:




I have used Fluid Film based on discussion in this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...ame-saver.html

The thread above mentions the product is available in Australia and references another thread on MTBR:

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/anti-co...otout.1073581/

where they conduct anti-corrosion product shoot out and Fluid Film scores highly. Application is straight forward and after leaving the frame for most of the day outside, after moving it back inside there was no smell or any residue otherwise, so quite indoor friendly
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Old 10-09-22, 05:15 PM
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Hi nenad, the aluminium Colnago is a very responsive bike and has surprisingly good road manners. Being aluminium I was expecting a harsh ride; it is a little harsh but quite manageable. It has a very stiff bottom bracket (very little sideways flex) so any effort to turn the cranks seems to go straight to the back wheel. It goes up hills better than any of my other bikes and it descends confidently. It's a very good bike.

My favourite is a red and yellow Master Piu with a lovely Campagnolo 1995 8 speed groupset. Just a lovely bike to ride. Then again, I do enjoy riding every one of the Colnago's, they just seem to suit my body size plus they are all have most predictable road manners.

Thanks for the tips on frame lubrication, it looks like you have done quite a bit of research into the matter.

Nice photos in your latest reply. The frame looks to be in very good condition. It will build up to be an eye catching bike. Are you going to use a silver groupset?

Last edited by Gary Fountain; 10-11-22 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 11-26-22, 09:39 AM
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nenad
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Originally Posted by Gary Fountain
Hi nenad, the aluminium Colnago is a very responsive bike and has surprisingly good road manners. Being aluminium I was expecting a harsh ride; it is a little harsh but quite manageable. It has a very stiff bottom bracket (very little sideways flex) so any effort to turn the cranks seems to go straight to the back wheel. It goes up hills better than any of my other bikes and it descends confidently. It's a very good bike.

My favourite is a red and yellow Master Piu with a lovely Campagnolo 1995 8 speed groupset. Just a lovely bike to ride. Then again, I do enjoy riding every one of the Colnago's, they just seem to suit my body size plus they are all have most predictable road manners.

Thanks for the tips on frame lubrication, it looks like you have done quite a bit of research into the matter.

Nice photos in your latest reply. The frame looks to be in very good condition. It will build up to be an eye catching bike. Are you going to use a silver groupset?
Hi Gary,

yes, I will. I've started the assembly and I'll post some pictures in the next couple of weeks. Bad weather has closed in on us, we're done with cycling season for now so it's time to get busy with other fun stuff
For you down under, on the other hand, summer is around the corner, you are so lucky!

Regards,
Nenad
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Old 12-13-22, 11:01 AM
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Hi Gary,

here goes:






There's 20 cm of snow outside we are in the dead of the winter, it will not be ridden just yet. Let me know how you like it.

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Nenad
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Old 12-27-22, 02:52 PM
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