repechage

Asahi of Japan made chrome plated spokes of good quality but rarely exported save for the lengths used in BMX bikes. They were found on top tier road bikes from the Japanese mfgs for a time till stainless steel was the siren call.
Union Berg made chrome plated double butted spokes of widely appreciated quality.
compared to stainless steel they became more expensive and are more vulnerable to neglect.
there may have been cheap chrome plated spokes elsewhere but I did not encounter them on bikes that came in for repair at the bike shops I worked for.

52telecaster

Just want to add two cents on 27-700c. With cantis, as has been stated before you may end up with the pads pointing downward. It was less problematic for me with wider rims. Sun cr18s with 4 cross db spokes always made nice wheels in my experience. I do like the idea of trying to fix what you already have though too. Excellent project!

Classtime 

New spokes are E$$pen$ive! If after some soaking, and the nipples turn, back em all off one by one, lube the spoke and maybe brush the threads, lube the eyelet and maybe replace a bunged up nipple.

Cycle Tourist

Cost conscious buyers may want to consider straight gauge stainless spokes. It's not that expensive and having a wheel built carefully and with pride is more important than having butted spokes.

tjfastback66

Good Point and I appreciate all the tips, tricks and advice on this thread. I am inclined to press forward and just order the DB SS spokes and move on with this. I have a couple of months until they would arrive anyway. That would give me some time to clean up the Araya rims and SunShine hubs first. I might try the build but a local bike shop expert wants to see them before they are ordered.
Cheers!

randyjawa 

Post number mentions that stainless steel spokes, butted ones and of good quality, are expensive. That is so true and the spokes on my Rabeneick set me back $151 and change. I almost messed my pants when I got the bill.

I do agree with the mention at lesser spokes are OK to use provided they are installed, patterned, adjusted and stress relieved properly. Too tight or too loose or unevenly tensioned are all things that should be avoided if dependability it the target...

canopus 

With the cost of spokes now, I would hose them off with WD-40, clean them with steel wool or aluminum scrub pad and brushes, clean the rim up, throw on some new rim strips, check the true and ride them. I wouldn't bother stress relieving the existing spokes or trying to lube the nipples. If they are true, that was how you left it years ago. If the tension was fine then, it should be fine now. Unless these are just so sentimental that you can't live without them, just clean them up and ride them. I'm not putting 70-100 dollars worth of spokes into anything that I'm not inclined to go to the grave with now.

I only have one set of wheels I have sentimentality on. They were the very first pair of wheels I built for my Raleigh Competion. They have mismatched rims, Campy Gran Sport hubs on 126 spacing. They aren't worth a plug nickel in most peoples books... But I built them.

BFisher

$151 dollars for one wheelset's worth of spokes?! Where the heck are you guys getting your spokes from? I've been paying $1/pc. for double butted spokes - DT Swiss or Wheelsmith - from Universal.

Now, finding the length you need in stock, that may be the real challenge.

Dfrost 

+1 to @BFisher’s comment above!

seedsbelize2

I have a set of Covid tubulars here. I couldn't find the right size spokes at a reasonable price, so I built them with used spokes. Six monts in, the rear broke two spokes on the same ride. So they sit, awaiting the right size spokes. I got close day before yesterday. They said they had them, but whe push came to shove.....

cyccommute 

Spokes really don’t need to be replaced to be “safe”. Theoretically, spokes can outlast numerous rims. That doesn’t work all the time…or even all that often…in practice. The length of the spoke can only work with rims of the same effective rim diameter. Finding a rim with the same effective rim diameter can be extremely difficult so spokes get replaced before they really need to. It’s not that they are compromised but if the ERD is different, they are useless.

The spokes above aren’t “chrome plated”, they are probably zinc plated steel. From a practical standpoint, carbon steel is slightly more elastic than stainless. That can make the spoke a bit more durable than stainless. However any cleaning method is likely to remove the zinc coating which would make them more prone to rusting. Here’s what the Wikipedia page on galvanization says

Basically that means that removing the coating by physical or chemical means will result in accelerated corrosion. Probably best to leave the spokes as they are and just ride them.

cyccommute 

Your problem is less supply chain issues than using a somewhat outdated wheel. 310mm spokes are an uncommon length. DT, for example, only offers that length in limited models. They don’t offer that length in the double butted Revolution line which is the most commonly available double butted spoke. They do offer that length in the Champion line but that is a straight gauge spoke.

You have a couple of issues that make this wheel difficult to rebuild. The 4 cross pattern and the flat profile rims makes the spokes longer and more difficult to find. A 3 cross pattern and/or a higher profile rim would shorten the spokes. Shorter spokes are far easier to find.

Frankly, I’d just build a new wheel in 3 cross. Preferable one with a freehub and in 700C. I doubt that these wheels are OEM given that 4 cross is rare even in custom builds. If you want to keep with the current hubs, I’d still rebuild them in 3 cross.

And get that lock nut tighten down properly!

tjfastback66

Actually the length of the spoke length is 306 with a bit more availability from what I have been led to believe. My knowledge of wheel building is actually NIL - so I might be inclined to practice on these wheels with the old spokes/nipples first before I attempt to go with all new spokes. The nipples turned great without any oil but I still will oil them up prior to disassembly. Being that these wheels are "Factory" build with the 4 cross pattern my goal is to keep that look with the restoration. The loose lock nut was prior to the hub tear down and removing the bearings..

Thank You!

cyccommute 

While using these wheels for practice is admirable, I would suggest getting another old wheel to practice on. I use old wheels in my wheel building classes for people to build up rather than risk their new wheels on the first time out. I take them apart after (or before) each new session so that others can use them. The wheels will never be ridden again, however. The hardest part of wheel building is lacing. Tension and truing are much easier to grasp for nearly all the students I’ve taught (50 to 100 so far).


You don’t need much oil. A drop at the top of each nipple is enough. Any oil will work. I regularly use Triflow because it’s what is available in the co-op shop. At home I have an ancient can of 3-in-One oil that I also use.

I have my doubts that these are “factory” (or original equipment, manufacturer, aka OEM). I’ve dealt with a lot of wheels over 40 years of riding and working on bikes as well as 10 years of working on thousands of bikes at my local co-op. Four cross lacing is extremely rare in general.

Even if the wheels are OEM 4 cross, going to a 3 cross won’t make any difference and will make finding spokes easier. If you go with stainless spokes, you’ve already changed the “originality” of the wheel set. Basically, no one will notice

Generally speaking, it’s easier to start with the nondrive side when working on bearings. The driveside spacers are a bit more difficult to reset and everything is buried under the freewheel if something comes loose because you didn’t get everything tight enough.

Co-op tip: If you happen to find yourself working on a coaster hub, work on the drive side. The off-drive side doesn’t really have anything that’s adjustable. Learned that one the hard way.

tjfastback66

I decided to clean up the original spokes and the Univega is all set to roll !

beng1

Ride em. I have put over a thousand miles in the last year on a set of wheels that were so rusty I had to clean them with a wire wheel on a drill-motor. I did clean/lube and adjust the bearings and true them up, and once in the last year a spoke broke while on a ride, but I was able to ride home with it and swap the one spoke out. If riding is essential to you then ride, if you enjoy wrenching more than riding then wrench. I wanted to ride that bike so I just did what I had to do to get me on the road, and spent as little as possible. I don't care how things look, I just want to ride.

tjfastback66

Yeah I did that drill and wire wheel with this one - I have to say they turned out fantastic!

beng1

The penetrating oil I have been using the last ten years is called "Kroil", you know it is good because it smells dangerous, like Liquid Wrench used to smell forty years ago before they changed it's formula. You can order little tin cans of Kroil directly from the manufacturer which have a little spout and screw-on cap, and it goes a long way so the cans last for years.

Aardwolf

I've just replaced the spokes (and hubs) on a set of Mavic Monthlery Route - old spokes were zinc plated and a bit tatty.
I've found a place in the UK that cuts to custom length and delivers in a couple of days.

36 x DT Swiss Champion 14g for £25.68

They do the DT Swiss Champion 14g any length from 151 to 314 mm
https://www.spokesfromryan.com/

beng1

And yes, the wheel looks great, and now you are all set for the riding season and can relax a bit.

ThermionicScott 

DT Champions are straight-gauge spokes. I'd expect them to be cheaper...

Oldairhead 

I think that you did the right thing! Those spokes have held up for 40 years already and if they are undamaged they should easily last another 20. To me there is great satisfaction in completely disassembling a wheel, cleaning everything thoroughly and rebuilding it as good as new! And, you can spend the money you saved on beer, bike parts or both!

tjfastback66

Yeah that would be BOTH!

OldCoot

Aside from chiming in with all the others saying 'replace' , I am curious to see a picture of the complete bike. I have what I believe is a 1982 Univega Specialissima , but I say that only because I bought it in 1982. I still have it is no longer the original gold-brown color. It came with Suntour Cyclone GT and barcons, and most notably Dia-compe cantilever brakes (which I love!).

tjfastback66

Fresh tape job just got this done yesterday. It does ride like a dream!