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Why did I wreck?

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Why did I wreck?

Old 12-31-20, 11:19 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by semroc
Rhm, ya I was really surprised to see my wheel apart from my bike. Very strange..
...yeah... A couple years ago a friend of mine crashed snd didn't know why. He explained it in an email. He's a physicist and takes a methodical approach to problem solving.
Well, as i said, he didn't know why he crashed, but he explained it all, as much as he could, in an email.
So i followed up by pointing out the logical inconsistencies in his account. My bad! Of course it didn't make sense-- he crashed because of something he did not observe, so it's not part of the story.
How is this relevant to you? It's not, sorry, i'm just telling you a story.
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Old 12-31-20, 11:30 PM
  #27  
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It's cool rhm. The more info the better. It now seems like there's no way a wheel could come all the way out. I should've taken a pic. But I was a little rattled, and needed to get out of the road. No warning either. No tire rub, no clicking or anything. Just went to stand up and wham, hello pavement. Maybe I just didn't have that miche skewer tight enough. But I wrenched it down pretty good before my ride. Thanks again.
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Old 01-01-21, 01:05 AM
  #28  
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I also had bad experience with an old Miche rear hub, back when they were cheap (cheapest of the lot) Campy copies and would definitely replace the QR (both of them) pronto. Was unimpressed with the innards (axles, cones, races) of those hubs, too. These days the Miche products I have seen are generally much better quality than those from BITD.
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Old 01-01-21, 04:35 AM
  #29  
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I suspect you have tightened the end of axle pressed against the frame of the dropout instead of the end of the axle floating free in the dropout slot. Standing up caused the jammed axle to pop back into the slot (where it should live) and everything goes slack, the chain under load pulls the wheel forward and out it goes bending everything and everyone. Someone suggested a too long axle and the QR bottoming out on it rather than the frame, but no QR could rectify that oversight.
Place the wheel in the dropout without QR skewer and check the axle is the correct length and the gaps (both sides)are within reason. If too long cut some off or check the other side and perhaps, if it's not even stevens, wind some back the other way.
Buy a lottery ticket as well.
Skewer handle facing forward is akin to riding with two fishing gaffs - ready to snare a errant hedge stick, someone's rear wheel , Achilles tendon , curb etc. They go down and you go down, except you have the added bonus of a missing wheel and most of your drive chain flying about.

Last edited by Johno59; 01-01-21 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 01-01-21, 07:59 AM
  #30  
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Thanks for posting what is clearly a public service, raising awareness and changing public behaviors. So many of the NDS chain stays I see have rub marks on the inside from tire rub with hopefully much less violent outcomes than yours.
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Old 01-01-21, 09:36 AM
  #31  
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I'm glad you're OK!!!
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Old 01-01-21, 10:48 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
On some of my bikes I took out the drop out adjuster screws and shove the wheel all the way back in the dropouts. Without the adjuster screws there is more surface area for the skewer/locknut to grab onto. On my Lemond this seems to have solved the issue with the rear axle slipping in the dropout.
Also seems to me that if the axle is at or near the front of the slot it is more likely that it would come all the way out if the skewer failed to do its job. When the wheel twists, the axle is out of the slot on the right side, and it is easy to imagine that in process of fighting to stay up (or failing to stay up) that the left side of the axe would also work free of the slot. On the other hand, if the axle is farther back, the wheel will rub on the chainstay but the axle will remain in the slot. Just speculation of course, since I have not done any experiments.
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Old 01-01-21, 10:59 AM
  #33  
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semroc - I’m glad you’re OK! Epic mystery mechanical malfunctions do sometimes manifest and at the worst possible moment.

Since folks seem interested in this topic would you mind posting a few close ups of your rear dropouts, your quick release and of your rear Miche hub showing the locknuts, and how far the axle extends past the locknut on each side? Maybe even take a metric ruler or dial caliper to get an exact mm width of the thickness of your rear dropouts faces and the mm length of the axle protrusion on each side? And even better yet - how about mounting your size 13 shoe in the pedal, rotate the non-drive crankarm to 3 o’clock (9 o’clock?) position and flip the skewer lever the way it was prior to the epic event then photograph that.

We might all learn something in the process!

But I would also like to follow up on 2 possible clues you provided in your telling of the calamitous malfunction:

1) the new freewheel. Was this your first ride on this new freewheel? And was this with a new or used chain? How many cogs on the freewheel and what brand of chain? And was there any slippage on the small chainring when you stood to climb? How steep was the climb and how much do you weigh? Just trying to get more of a visual.

2) Did I detect some trepidation about standing after having the wheel re-install? Just curious.
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Old 01-01-21, 11:15 AM
  #34  
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My takeaways:

1. The OP is fine, a few dings, but he's ok - phew!
2. The bike is fine. Some would argue I've got 1 and 2 in the wrong order...
3. The Velominati need to review rule 41.
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Old 01-01-21, 11:43 AM
  #35  
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Masi61 I'll get to those pics later today. First ride on new freewheel. 14-28 Sunrace. About 1000 miles on the sram chain. No slippage in any cogs. I weigh 200 pounds. It wasn't a hill, it was on the flats. I stood up and put a lot of pressure on it, like I was going to sprint. Lots of trepidation on the ride home. Didn't stand up once. Thanks y'all. Ya I'm just glad my bikes okay. Lol
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Old 01-01-21, 12:05 PM
  #36  
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I only use Maillard QR skewers. I've popped open all-steel Shimano skewers as well as the newer aluminum/steel Shimano skewers. Yes, popped them open. I haven't tried Campy skewers, but I reckon if they invented the dang things, they can make 'em right. Clamp hard!
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Old 01-04-21, 12:33 PM
  #37  
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Maybe the rear skewer got loose when you rode hard just before the crash.
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Old 01-04-21, 12:38 PM
  #38  
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I only use Shimano skewers.
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Old 01-04-21, 01:16 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by 2fat2fly
About 40 years ago I had my rear wheel come loose, twice. The hub was a Miche Competition, sort of a copy of a Campy Record. The skewers were also Miche. It was a new wheelset to that bike. I had the wheel slip twice, luckily all it did was turn sideways enough to drag the bike to a stop. Only the right side moved forward, and it never came out of the dropout. What I eventually found was that the hub was spaced a bit on the narrow side, something like 115mm, which likely was contributing in me not clamping the skewer down hard enough. I respaced the hub by adding a few spacers under each lock nut and all was fine after that.
I did eventually replace those skewers but not because they slipped, but because the rear skewer snapped about two years later. I think I bought a pair of Cycle Pro skewers at the lbs back then.
I am another who liked and had good results with cheap Cycle Pro QRs.

Originally Posted by rhm
Wheels can get loose, I get that. You can kick the QR with your heel, yes. It's happened to me... the wheel slides forward in the dropouts and stops turning, and the it becomes difficult to stay upright. No surprise there.

But getting the wheel five feet away from the bicycle, i don't see that. I cannot explain how that might happen.

Sometimes it is hard to figure out how a crash happened. Still... completely removing the wheel from the bike, that's unusual.
Usually, when we lock up rear wheels, we don't go over the bars and the bike stays upright. Wheel stays trapped in the stays. (Now that's kind of a fun sentence.) The OP tried a different approach (flipping the bike up and over himself) and came out with a different outcome.

Originally Posted by Ferrouscious
I only use Maillard QR skewers. I've popped open all-steel Shimano skewers as well as the newer aluminum/steel Shimano skewers. Yes, popped them open. I haven't tried Campy skewers, but I reckon if they invented the dang things, they can make 'em right. Clamp hard!
"I've popped open all-steel Shimano skewers ..." Funny, I find them to be some of the best I've ever used. And I'm a generally anti-Shimano guy.

Last edited by 79pmooney; 01-04-21 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Confusion with the quotes
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Old 01-04-21, 03:38 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by semroc
Hello all. I hope this is okay in the vintage forum. I was riding an 1979 or 80 Rossin Record. Fifteen miles into my ride yesterday, I was about a mile from my favorite bike shop. Stoked to get there and talk shop. Going about 15 miles per hour, I got out of the saddle to get going a little faster, and boom I'm down hard on the pavement. I get up, find my rear wheel is about 5 feet away from my bike. Get out of the road and collect myself. How did my wheel come off? I know my skewer was real tight. Checked before I left. And rode pretty hard before the wreck. I limped to my buddies shop. He put the wheel back on while I bandaged wounds. He's a top notch mechanic, and thoroughly went through my bike. Straightened out bent brake lever and rear derailleur, trued wheel. No charge. I rode home, but never got out of the saddle. Has this happened to anyone? How did my rear wheel come off. Thanks everyone.
That's a nice bike and a TALL frame. What is it a 63 cm?
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Old 01-04-21, 05:10 PM
  #41  
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Thanks Roadies. Its a 60cm. Rides real nice when the rear wheel isn't flying off the back.
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Old 01-05-21, 08:20 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
"I've popped open all-steel Shimano skewers ..." Funny, I find them to be some of the best I've ever used. And I'm a generally anti-Shimano guy.
It seems that Shimano has some variability in the angle of the internal cam lobe. I had three that didn't go past 90* even when closing. They basically "sat at the top" instead of "going over the top" of the cam lobe. As I put power down, the whole system flexed and the weakest link gave way.
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Old 01-06-21, 03:20 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
I am another who liked and had good results with cheap Cycle Pro QRs.

Usually, when we lock up rear wheels, we don't go over the bars and the bike stays upright. Wheel stays trapped in the stays. (Now that's kind of a fun sentence.) The OP tried a different approach (flipping the bike up and over himself) and came out with a different outcome.

"I've popped open all-steel Shimano skewers ..." Funny, I find them to be some of the best I've ever used. And I'm a generally anti-Shimano guy.
I've had some older Shimano branded Skewers that didn't seem to lock over center very well if set too tight, I could see them popping open on a hard bump or the tap of your heel.

Cycle Pro skewers I believe were the same as Sunshine skewers. OEM Raleigh branded skewers also looked to be about the same.
I ran a lot of Atom and Maillard branded skewers back in the day, most came on Normandy hubs.
The skewers that always worried me are those from the 90's, the aluminum handle things from Shimano found on so many bikes. They don't have the same holding power that the vintage side handle versions seemed to have.
Most of the road bikes I've owned had back wheels that fit so tight I had to deflate the tire to get the wheel in the frame. So falling out of the dropouts wasn't likely.
What I would normally expect when a skewer lets go of the wheel or 'slips under power' would be for the freewheel side to come forward cocking the wheel on an angle in the chain stays. Effectively turning the wheel to the left. Rider weight alone would be contributing a reverse force, pushing the loose wheel back up into the dropouts making it even harder for it to separate from the bike.

What happened to the chain when the wheel came out? I would think that the chain would have also caught on the cogs, skewer, or axle hanging onto the wheel.

Looking at the pic above, its hard to tell but it don't look like the axle is very far into the dropout in that pic, maybe a close up pic of the rear axle area or back wheel on both sides would show more.
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Old 01-06-21, 04:39 AM
  #44  
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The chain was hanging there real loose. It actually came off the front small chainring and was resting on the bb. Yes, you would think something would catch the wheel and prevent it from coming off. But I picked it up off the ground, completely separate from my bike. Tough to get pics. The screen on my phone is shattered. Camera is real blurry. Ill try using my wifes camera. Appreciate everyones input.
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