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Advocating for cameras on bikes.

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Advocating for cameras on bikes.

Old 05-06-19, 03:38 PM
  #276  
Maelochs
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So ... what earbuds have the highest safety ratings?
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Old 05-07-19, 04:51 PM
  #277  
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Snap shot of a truck that missed us by 12 inches. Note towing mirrors are out. Also note extra room next to the solid double yellow. Speed of the truck was estimated around 50-55. Our speed was about 28-30 mph. This video/snap shot was taken at a long straight section of a road called San Fransquito Canyon. We all had tail lights, clear skies, light traffic, dry road conditions. There was no excuse for how little room this driver gave us.

I presented the video along with this snap shot to the CA Highway Patrol. They usually don't greet cyclists with open arms, but I was surprised at the support I received. He said all he could do was to communicate with the owner of the vehicle. That was enough for us. I bet the driver was surprised as he** when he got that call. Maybe he will give the 3 feet of room that the law dictates.

For me, this one episode more than justified the few extra grams of a rear facing/tail light assembly adds. Cost? This is like debating the cost of getting a brighter and more visible headlight. No debate what so ever.

Last edited by sirkaos; 05-07-19 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 05-07-19, 05:14 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by sirkaos

Snap shot of a truck that missed us by 12 inches. Note towing mirrors are out. Also note extra room next to the solid double yellow. Speed of the truck was estimated around 50-55. Our speed was about 28-30 mph. This video/snap shot was taken at a long straight section of a road called San Fransquito Canyon. We all had tail lights, clear skies, light traffic, dry road conditions. There was no excuse for how little room this driver gave us.

I presented the video along with this snap shot to the CA Highway Patrol. They usually don't greet cyclists with open arms, but I was surprised at the support I received. He said all he could do was to communicate with the owner of the vehicle. That was enough for us. I bet the driver was surprised as he** when he got that call. Maybe he will give the 3 feet of room that the law dictates.

For me, this one episode more than justified the few extra grams of a rear facing/tail light assembly adds. Cost? This is like debating the cost of getting a brighter and more visible headlight. No debate what so ever.
I also recommend cataloging negligent or aggressive drivers on the Close Call Database and Rate Driver. That way there is a record of their behavior for posterity.

https://closecalldatabase.com/

https://rate-driver.com/
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Old 05-11-19, 08:46 AM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
Allow me to disillusion you: Cameras absolutely affect behavior -- provided they're visible. That's been proven many times and in many situations.
I agree, it is just that most people do not know what the dash cameras are, or that there are cameras on your helmet etc. They are clueless.
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Old 05-11-19, 10:04 AM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by Loose Chain
I agree, it is just that most people do not know what the dash cameras are, or that there are cameras on your helmet etc. They are clueless.
Pretty conspicuous, wouldn't you say?


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Old 05-11-19, 10:44 AM
  #281  
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The cameras I use on my cycling and motorcycle helmets are small black cylinders.
The one on the cycling helmet is on top, and half the people I meet think it is a headlight.
The one on the motorcycle helmet mounts on the righthand side, next to my jaw, and in all probability, no one sees it.
I wouldn't be caught dead with a clunky, box-like GoPro sticking off my helmet.
They are functionally good cameras, but the form-factor suck rocks for helmet use.
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Old 05-11-19, 10:49 AM
  #282  
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If the driver was paying attention to the cyclist, the camera wouldn't make a difference, and if the driver wasn't, the camera wouldn't be noticed.

Been said, and ignored, by people who value winning an internet debate over making sense.

Frankly, if I werre passing a cyclist while driving, I might not notice the camera, because I wouldn't be watching the rider's head---i'd be watching the rider's body mass, the other cars around and behind, oncoming traffic, and road debris on the road edge ahead (because I know how much that matters, which most drivers who don't ride don't understand.) Unless the cyclist came up across from me while we were both stopped at an intersection I likely wouldn't notice the camera .... and I guarantee you Nobody notices a rear-view camera.

But, to restate the obvious point people are obviously denying ... if the driver sees the rider, the driver will generally not hit the rider. If the driver does not see the rider, the driver will not see the camera.

Most collisions are from the side, so the helmet-cam is worthless anyway. Most of the rest are from the rear, so the helmet-cam is worthless anyway.

But I certainly do not care what other riders wear on their heads, or under their seats, or on their bars or stems, or anywhere else.

And I always get a good chuckle from people who have to take, "Here is not a bad idea" and transform it into "This is the Only Way to Live" as soon as one or two people don't agree. Glad I meet those folks on the internet, where I can scroll down or shut the page.
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Old 05-11-19, 11:06 AM
  #283  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Unless the cyclist came up across from me while we were both stopped at an intersection I likely wouldn't notice the camera .... and I guarantee you Nobody notices a rear-view camera.
I had parked my motorcycle at a convenience store once, and got into a conversation with a guy driving a pickup, who was also a biker. When he asked about my rear camera, I was floored. We were 30' away from my bike, and the camera he noticed was a 1" x 3" black cylinder under my tail-rack. The guy must have eyes like a peregrine falcon.
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Old 05-11-19, 11:12 AM
  #284  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
If I were you, I think I'd want to find something better to do than "wait for the day" you get to say "I told you so". I know I'm taking the chance that I won't catch an incident "on tape", ...
That "told you so" seldom works anyway. One person would think that stopping road center, in the intersection turning paths, where you already know it's a dangerous intersection, and then having an inattentive driver almost run over you would prove that you stopped in a dangerous place while another will think it proves how effective his camera was because he caught the driver being inattentive. Priorities and perspective.

I sometimes kind of want one for when something interesting happens on a ride, and I've even messed around with BT pairing one phone as video for the other (to double the use as a rear view display). But it's always too much hassle for the utility, so the advocacy has failed to convince. If someone actually hit me, and I was riding 100% legally at the time, I might wish that I had it recorded. But without a good body of precedent where the video was the difference in court or with insurance liability, it's hard to project any probabilities into that.
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Old 05-11-19, 01:50 PM
  #285  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
Pretty conspicuous, wouldn't you say?
So is this and about equally hideous.
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Old 05-11-19, 04:24 PM
  #286  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
If the driver was paying attention to the cyclist, the camera wouldn't make a difference, and if the driver wasn't, the camera wouldn't be noticed.


But, to restate the obvious point people are obviously denying ... if the driver sees the rider, the driver will generally not hit the rider. If the driver does not see the rider, the driver will not see the camera.

Most collisions are from the side, so the helmet-cam is worthless anyway. Most of the rest are from the rear, so the helmet-cam is worthless anyway.
You assume hitting the cyclist with the car is the only bad thing that can happen. If a person sees the cyclist with a camera he may think twice about doing other things like a passenger throwing something or a close pass by the driver. Cameras most certainly do alter people's behavior. The cameras are for the things that don't generally happen.

Also as stated types of cameras can catch all angles.
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Old 05-11-19, 04:44 PM
  #287  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
Pretty conspicuous, wouldn't you say?


Your GoPro is not the typical looping helmet/dash/personal camera. And, you would be amazed.
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Old 05-11-19, 05:10 PM
  #288  
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Boy, the look on that guy's face is SCARY. He looks quite accusatory, like he ought to be saying:



"So you like running red lights?"
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Old 05-12-19, 04:01 AM
  #289  
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Originally Posted by Loose Chain
Your GoPro is not the typical looping helmet/dash/personal camera. And, you would be amazed.
It doesn't have to be. The advantage comes from it being visible. That alone is enough to affect negative behavior. We're not creating any new science here. This has already been determined long ago.
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Old 05-13-19, 09:28 AM
  #290  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
It doesn't have to be. The advantage comes from it being visible. That alone is enough to affect negative behavior. We're not creating any new science here. This has already been determined long ago.
Really? There's a scientific study showing that wearing a helmet cam positively affects drivers' behaviour? By all means, put up a link to it.
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Old 05-16-19, 10:51 AM
  #291  
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Edit: Since this forum bleeps out R3ddit, go to r/CyclistsWithCameras.
/r/CyclistsWithCameras/comments/bp01zl/us_my_hit_and_run_driver_got_caught_cameras_ftw/

There were eyewitnesses. None stopped to help or provide testimony, and as stated before there is no legal obligation to do so. There may have been CCTV footage from a nearby building, but aside from it not being a guarantee the owner of said security cameras doesn't have to hand over the video unless subpoenaed (also assumes they keep the footage for a while).

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Old 05-24-19, 04:18 PM
  #292  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
Allow me to disillusion you: Cameras absolutely affect behavior -- provided they're visible. That's been proven many times and in many situations.
That is why I don't make my camera visible. So a driver won't know that, they were 'Caught on Camera'.​​​​
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Old 05-25-19, 07:51 AM
  #293  
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https://whotv.com/2019/05/24/caught-...ear-indianola/

Multiple eyewitnesses, but none helped or gave testimony (once again, no legal obligation to do so). It was a country road, so there was pretty much a 0% chance of CCTV footage capturing the incident. The cyclist's footage alone led to the driver being tracked down which, had a camera not been running, likely wouldn't have led to this positive result. Trying to read and memorize a license plate with that speed differential is difficult.
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Old 05-25-19, 10:15 AM
  #294  
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Originally Posted by JW Fas
https://whotv.com/2019/05/24/caught-...ear-indianola/

Multiple eyewitnesses, but none helped or gave testimony (once again, no legal obligation to do so). It was a country road, so there was pretty much a 0% chance of CCTV footage capturing the incident. The cyclist's footage alone led to the driver being tracked down which, had a camera not been running, likely wouldn't have led to this positive result. Trying to read and memorize a license plate with that speed differential is difficult.
Mr. Carpenter is a little too forgiving. The boy and his friend need to learn a lesson in that they could have caused the cyclist serious harm or death had he lost control. Intentionally running someone off the road is a felony.

At minimum those boys should have been given a couple hundred hours of community service. You can't purposely put someone's life in danger like that and then just get off just by saying you're sorry. They need public embarrassment so that people know why they are and what they did.
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Old 05-28-19, 11:08 AM
  #295  
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Originally Posted by Loose Chain
I agree, it is just that most people do not know what the dash cameras are, or that there are cameras on your helmet etc. They are clueless.
There used a big yellow sign saying state law requires stopping for pedestrians crosswalk by my old office. I used to point my phone at people who didn't have any intention of stopping for me when I was in that marked crosswalk and it was great to see the sudden change in their behavior when they realized I could be taking their picture while they violated that law just beyond that sign. Not pointing the phone at them didn't have that effect, neither did pointing at the sign. The camera was the only thing that had any effect.
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Old 05-28-19, 03:46 PM
  #296  
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Originally Posted by no motor?
There used a big yellow sign saying state law requires stopping for pedestrians crosswalk by my old office. I used to point my phone at people who didn't have any intention of stopping for me when I was in that marked crosswalk and it was great to see the sudden change in their behavior when they realized I could be taking their picture while they violated that law just beyond that sign. Not pointing the phone at them didn't have that effect, neither did pointing at the sign. The camera was the only thing that had any effect.
again, a situation in no way related to riding on a bike with cars coming up from different angles and possibly not even looking close enough to see if you are wearing a helmet, let alone if there is a camera on it.

If you ride one-handed with your phone in your free hand and visibly aim it at every car around you, that might have some effect ... probably the effect of distracting you from safely riding.

In certain situations cameras have effects on behavior ... but there is no evidence that riding a bike is such a situation. The guy who was hit by a cop and caught it all on camera ... had a camera.
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Old 05-28-19, 04:57 PM
  #297  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
again, a situation in no way related to riding on a bike with cars coming up from different angles and possibly not even looking close enough to see if you are wearing a helmet, let alone if there is a camera on it.

If you ride one-handed with your phone in your free hand and visibly aim it at every car around you, that might have some effect ... probably the effect of distracting you from safely riding.

In certain situations cameras have effects on behavior ... but there is no evidence that riding a bike is such a situation. The guy who was hit by a cop and caught it all on camera ... had a camera.
Sorry I missed those crucial details and merely attempted to show that drivers will change their behavior if they feel their actions are being recorded. I now realize this has nothing to do with US drivers on public roads when bicycles are involved.
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Old 05-28-19, 05:22 PM
  #298  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
again, a situation in no way related to riding on a bike with cars coming up from different angles and possibly not even looking close enough to see if you are wearing a helmet, let alone if there is a camera on it.

If you ride one-handed with your phone in your free hand and visibly aim it at every car around you, that might have some effect ... probably the effect of distracting you from safely riding.

In certain situations cameras have effects on behavior ... but there is no evidence that riding a bike is such a situation. The guy who was hit by a cop and caught it all on camera ... had a camera.
That some really bizarro world logic you have going there. Simply stated, cameras do affect people's behavior. There is ample research and observation to make that perfectly clear to anyone open to reason and logic. A situation analysis is both unnecessary and irrelevant here.
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Old 05-29-19, 09:46 AM
  #299  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
That some really bizarro world logic you have going there. Simply stated, cameras do affect people's behavior. There is ample research and observation to make that perfectly clear to anyone open to reason and logic. A situation analysis is both unnecessary and irrelevant here.
This would be the point where you actually link to the research and observation you're claiming exists. For all we know, you might be talking about ISIS videos, but I don't think that's the effect we're looking for.

You're claiming that there is "ample research" showing that the presence of cameras makes people act more in conformity with rules, right? Now, you've added the claim that the situation of those cameras is "irrelevant"? Really? Should I start a list of people who have deliberately videoed themselves doing horrible things to other people?

"Bald assertion" does not equal "logic and reason" no matter how many times you make that claim. You obviously confuse those things in a lot of threads on a lot of subjects.
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Old 05-29-19, 09:58 AM
  #300  
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Originally Posted by JW Fas
https://whotv.com/2019/05/24/caught-...ear-indianola/

Multiple eyewitnesses, but none helped or gave testimony (once again, no legal obligation to do so). It was a country road, so there was pretty much a 0% chance of CCTV footage capturing the incident. The cyclist's footage alone led to the driver being tracked down which, had a camera not been running, likely wouldn't have led to this positive result. Trying to read and memorize a license plate with that speed differential is difficult.

How do you know there were multiple witnesses or that none helped or gave testimony? He appears to have kept on riding, so I don't know what "give help" would mean in this context anyway, but more to the point, I can't tell from that video how many people would have actually perceived what happened. The oncoming cars would not see clearly the side of the car where the idiot is hanging out or the closeness of the swerve, and the vehicle immediately behind in the same lane is pretty far back and the driver maybe not that focused that far ahead or even able to appreciate the extent of the swerve if they were. I certainly can't tell from the video whether the witnesses, if any, actually came forward and talked to the police.

I agree that he likely wouldn't have been tracked down without the video but you really don't know that's because people were willfully ignoring the situation.
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