10 speed Shimano brifters with 9 speed triple crank?
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10 speed Shimano brifters with 9 speed triple crank?
Has anyone used 10 speed Shimano road brifters with 9 speed triple crank?
I have a customer who needs a shortened 24/36/46 road crank, The 9 speed Andels, same as those that come on the Surly LHT, can be shortened, And they work with a 10 speed drivetrain when shifted with bar end shifters which are friction on the left. But I have no experience with brifters. Never even ridden a bike with them.
I have a customer who needs a shortened 24/36/46 road crank, The 9 speed Andels, same as those that come on the Surly LHT, can be shortened, And they work with a 10 speed drivetrain when shifted with bar end shifters which are friction on the left. But I have no experience with brifters. Never even ridden a bike with them.
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I believe that all current Shimano 10 speed road STI shifters only are designed with a double crankset in mind. So while they MIGHT index with two of the three rings, not having a third lever "position" means that one of the three rings will go un shifted.
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Just checked, Shimano makes a triple version of their Tiagra component group. However that means that you have to have the matching Tiagra 4700 derailleurs
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Ultegra stopped at 10 speed with support for a triple. 6703 levers are the most recent and I'm sure they're still available. I assume there are 105 10 speed triples available too, but "assuming" and "Shimano" in the same sentence implies "do research." :-)
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Technically correct, Bob.
But the makers of chainrings have been adjusting the spacing between the rings and the sculpted pins and ramps (aka "shift aids") to match the increasingly-narrow chains of 9, 10, and 11 speed indexed shifting systems.
@MnHPVA Guy, The general rule of thumb is that one "speed" difference should work fine (aka, a "9 speed" crankset should work ok with 10 speed chain).
The other posters have made good points as well.
Tiagra 4700 is an odd duck; the rear derailleur/shifter indexes 10 speeds but uses the same cable pull as Shimano's 11 speed road shifters. That's why @alcjphil says you need to match the 4700 rear derailleur with the 4700 brifter.
@MnHPVA Guy, any other (not Tiagra 4700) 3 x 10 Shimano brifters will index perfectly with the existing 9-speed derailleurs; all Shimano 7-through-10-speed road RDs (except Tiagra 4700 and 6-8 speed Dura Ace) use the SIS index standard, so they're all cross-compatible.
So, you could help your customer find:
3 x 10 brifters (5700, 6700, or Microshift R10)
10 speed chain
10-speed cassette
and use these with the existing 9-speed crankset and derailleurs.
But the makers of chainrings have been adjusting the spacing between the rings and the sculpted pins and ramps (aka "shift aids") to match the increasingly-narrow chains of 9, 10, and 11 speed indexed shifting systems.
@MnHPVA Guy, The general rule of thumb is that one "speed" difference should work fine (aka, a "9 speed" crankset should work ok with 10 speed chain).
The other posters have made good points as well.
Tiagra 4700 is an odd duck; the rear derailleur/shifter indexes 10 speeds but uses the same cable pull as Shimano's 11 speed road shifters. That's why @alcjphil says you need to match the 4700 rear derailleur with the 4700 brifter.
@MnHPVA Guy, any other (not Tiagra 4700) 3 x 10 Shimano brifters will index perfectly with the existing 9-speed derailleurs; all Shimano 7-through-10-speed road RDs (except Tiagra 4700 and 6-8 speed Dura Ace) use the SIS index standard, so they're all cross-compatible.
So, you could help your customer find:
3 x 10 brifters (5700, 6700, or Microshift R10)
10 speed chain
10-speed cassette
and use these with the existing 9-speed crankset and derailleurs.
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More info
I should have included the following from the customer.
" I am currently using Shimano 10 speed Ultegra FD-6603 front shifter with a Ultegra FD-6603 front derailleur. My current crankset is an FSA Gossamer 53/39/30 with 130mm BCD and 74mm BCD and a 175mm crank arm length."
I sell about 250 shortened cranksets per year. With indexed shifting, 8 & 9 spacing are close enough to be interchangeable. And 10 speed cranks will work on 11 speed indexed drivetrains.
But for 10 speed cranks intended to be used with indexed 8/9 speed front shifters, I install FSA "9 Speed" spacers. These put an additional 0.44mm between the rings. 0.44mm may not be precisely to spec, but customers are happy with the result.
The reason for replacing a 10 speed crank with a 9 is that there are no shortenable 10 speed triples that will take the ring sizes he needs.
What I'm after is whether anyone has used a 9 speed crank with 10 speed Shimano brifters. Is there any trim with the brifters that would allow this? Or is there enough leeway that 0.44mm is not an issue?
My newest road bike is a 1986 Jack Taylor so this sort of shifting is alien to me.
BTW Manufacturers are aiming to get us all on 1x12 because indexed front shifting is such a clusterf**k. I know quite a few folks who are so fed up that they are running mis-matched shifters to get friction on the front.
" I am currently using Shimano 10 speed Ultegra FD-6603 front shifter with a Ultegra FD-6603 front derailleur. My current crankset is an FSA Gossamer 53/39/30 with 130mm BCD and 74mm BCD and a 175mm crank arm length."
I sell about 250 shortened cranksets per year. With indexed shifting, 8 & 9 spacing are close enough to be interchangeable. And 10 speed cranks will work on 11 speed indexed drivetrains.
But for 10 speed cranks intended to be used with indexed 8/9 speed front shifters, I install FSA "9 Speed" spacers. These put an additional 0.44mm between the rings. 0.44mm may not be precisely to spec, but customers are happy with the result.
The reason for replacing a 10 speed crank with a 9 is that there are no shortenable 10 speed triples that will take the ring sizes he needs.
What I'm after is whether anyone has used a 9 speed crank with 10 speed Shimano brifters. Is there any trim with the brifters that would allow this? Or is there enough leeway that 0.44mm is not an issue?
My newest road bike is a 1986 Jack Taylor so this sort of shifting is alien to me.
BTW Manufacturers are aiming to get us all on 1x12 because indexed front shifting is such a clusterf**k. I know quite a few folks who are so fed up that they are running mis-matched shifters to get friction on the front.
Last edited by MnHPVA Guy; 09-20-16 at 10:42 AM.
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I have a bike with 6603 shifters and 6503 front derailleur and crank. Works fine.
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Glad to see I was corrected. Andy
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If you are considering using a 10 speed chain with "9 speed" cranks , then:
FWIW, I have seen more than one case (I can think of two specific cases, actually) where "9 speed" double cranksets did NOT work with otherwise 10-speed drivetrains, in my bike shop. In both cases, one with an FSA "9 speed" crankset, the other with a Shimano Ultegra "9 speed" crankset, the 10 speed chain skated and would not reliably engage immediately when shifting from big ring to small ring, and the situation was actually somewhat dangerous because the rider would attempt to shift from big ring to small ring and, momentarily at least, the cranks would then spin freely without load. Not a good situation. With the installation of a "10 speed" crankset, both of these cases were successfully solved.
YMMV, and I also realize you're talking about a triple vs. a double. But IME, it's not a gimme. And every time I've posted this information in the past (it's been awhile), it's met with responses of "well I have done it successfully on my bike, so you're wrong." Just reporting what I've seen and experienced first hand; again YMMV, and different drivetrains will behave differently.
Last edited by well biked; 09-20-16 at 06:39 PM.
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If you are considering using a 10 speed chain with "9 speed" cranks , then:
FWIW, I have seen more than one case (I can think of two specific cases, actually) where "9 speed" double cranksets did NOT work with otherwise 10-speed drivetrains, in my bike shop. In both cases, one with an FSA "9 speed" crankset, the other with a Shimano Ultegra "9 speed" crankset, the 10 speed chain skated and would not reliably engage immediately when shifting from big ring to small ring, and the situation was actually somewhat dangerous because the rider would attempt to shift from big ring to small ring and, momentarily at least, the cranks would then spin freely without load. Not a good situation. With the installation of a "10 speed" crankset, both of these cases were successfully solved.
FWIW, I have seen more than one case (I can think of two specific cases, actually) where "9 speed" double cranksets did NOT work with otherwise 10-speed drivetrains, in my bike shop. In both cases, one with an FSA "9 speed" crankset, the other with a Shimano Ultegra "9 speed" crankset, the 10 speed chain skated and would not reliably engage immediately when shifting from big ring to small ring, and the situation was actually somewhat dangerous because the rider would attempt to shift from big ring to small ring and, momentarily at least, the cranks would then spin freely without load. Not a good situation. With the installation of a "10 speed" crankset, both of these cases were successfully solved.
Last edited by MnHPVA Guy; 09-20-16 at 07:38 PM.
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Although my setup works, I have heard of others that didn't, as well biked mentioned. I doubt I'd want to mess with this in a seller/ customer situation.
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If you are considering using a 10 speed chain with "9 speed" cranks , then:
FWIW, I have seen more than one case (I can think of two specific cases, actually) where "9 speed" double cranksets did NOT work with otherwise 10-speed drivetrains, in my bike shop. In both cases, one with an FSA "9 speed" crankset, the other with a Shimano Ultegra "9 speed" crankset, the 10 speed chain skated and would not reliably engage immediately when shifting from big ring to small ring, and the situation was actually somewhat dangerous because the rider would attempt to shift from big ring to small ring and, momentarily at least, the cranks would then spin freely without load. Not a good situation. With the installation of a "10 speed" crankset, both of these cases were successfully solved.
YMMV, and I also realize you're talking about a triple vs. a double. But IME, it's not a gimme. And every time I've posted this information in the past (it's been awhile), it's met with responses of "well I have done it successfully on my bike, so you're wrong." Just reporting what I've seen and experienced first hand; again YMMV, and different drivetrains will behave differently.
FWIW, I have seen more than one case (I can think of two specific cases, actually) where "9 speed" double cranksets did NOT work with otherwise 10-speed drivetrains, in my bike shop. In both cases, one with an FSA "9 speed" crankset, the other with a Shimano Ultegra "9 speed" crankset, the 10 speed chain skated and would not reliably engage immediately when shifting from big ring to small ring, and the situation was actually somewhat dangerous because the rider would attempt to shift from big ring to small ring and, momentarily at least, the cranks would then spin freely without load. Not a good situation. With the installation of a "10 speed" crankset, both of these cases were successfully solved.
YMMV, and I also realize you're talking about a triple vs. a double. But IME, it's not a gimme. And every time I've posted this information in the past (it's been awhile), it's met with responses of "well I have done it successfully on my bike, so you're wrong." Just reporting what I've seen and experienced first hand; again YMMV, and different drivetrains will behave differently.
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