Newspaper_Nick

Well, if people can sleep in the driver seats of their "Teslas", i am pretty sure that this technology does exist. You can actually see many videos of Teslas avoiding crashes with either stationary or moving vehicles.

Now i will accept that i am not aware of the price of implementing such technology to the cars that are currently being manufactured. Maybe the technology is patented. However, this is the future. It will eventually be in every vehicle on the road. Because people will want to buy this technology to avoid headaches and regrets. I for example would like to have a car with this kind of technology. It is not an empty promise, believe me, the system is constantly learning from all the Teslas in traffic and updating itself accordingly. And i know other car manufacturers implementing similar technologies in their new models which automatically brakes when it detects an object closer than the safe distance.

About the law thing, well, the public can push their representatives to maybe "incentivize" such technologies with a tax cut for example. That could make such cars more popular.

In the end, it is not a pipe dream. It is the future. This is going to happen eventually. I am pretty sure seatbelts were also a "pipe dream" when they were first introduced. Now they are in every car, "mandatorily" i should say.

MikeyMK

And Volvo invented the seatbelt. But they refused to patent them, so that everyone else could use them too.

I-Like-To-Bike

You better hope you are not bicycling on the road in front of people sleeping in the driver seats of their "Teslas"; you might be unpleasantly made aware of the limitations of the current technology used in Tesla automobiles.

"In the future", lots of things might eventually happen, seems like a reasonably safe assumption.

gregf83 

I think the current auto-pilot in a Tesla would not have hit this cyclist. The AP does a good job of keeping the car centered in the lane and it does identify cyclists as you drive by them. It also is able to differentiate between a cyclist and a motorcyclist. Not sure it can detect an e-bike just yet

In any case, the technology available in a Tesla is quite good but still at an early stage. 10 yrs from now with a few extra hardware revisions it will clearly be much better and costs will have come down to allow the technology in entry level vehicles.

Newspaper_Nick

I am not trying to legitimize sleeping in the driver seats. These people should be punished of course. What i am trying to say is that if these people are that much comfortable, that means the system actually works. Other people are videotaping these incidents and even though they are obviously sleeping, those cars do not crash. The technology is obviously quite new. In a few years it will be so much better in recognising objects on the road, including us cyclists. What I don't understand about your rebuttal is your solution to this problem? Are you suggesting policy changes, harder punishments, bigger fines? If that is the case, I suggest you to take a look at history in general, and see what kind of changes actually saved the most number of lives. It is never laws or politics. It is always technology and science (including medicine). Most traffic accidents happen because of human error. If you can eliminate human error (through technology), you can solve this problem. Of course there will be malfunctioning machines. But they will be far less and probably be caused by another kind of human error.

I-Like-To-Bike

I am suggesting that your supremely optimistic faith that "future technology" is here now or in the foreseeable future that will eliminate most motor vehicle collisions by eliminating human errors is touching but merely means that you have been drinking from the PR Koolaid put out by the promoters of Silicon Valley autonomous vehicle schemes and their associated venture capitalists.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/b...mous-cars.html

For more on the promise of Elon Musk's "autonomous self driving cars" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ot-s-lost-year

BTW, people often drive while partially blinded by the sun, or distracted by all sorts of things from crying babies, drinking/drugs, lack of sleep, to dropped cigarettes to fiddling with various controls or devices. Does that behavior also merit your"safety" endorsement because such people are comfortable with these activities and usually arrive safely at their destination despite risky behavior?

Newspaper_Nick

JW Fas

Game, set, match.

I-Like-To-Bike

Game, set, match You make me laff. Video of one vehicle slowing down, for one bicyclist, one time - Game, set, matchfor the AV - Elon Musk fanboys. You must have a conniption over a few Waymo tightly controlled press releases about their alleged AV self driving program in AZ.

People often drive safely past bicyclists while partially blinded by the sun, or distracted by all sorts of things from crying babies, drinking/drugs, lack of sleep, to dropped cigarettes to fiddling with various controls or devices. No more silly worries about any of those driving situations, eh? Game, set, match, yeah, sure!

BTW, any good driver would not have had to slow down to 15 mph to safely pass that bicyclist with plenty of lateral distance, in the absence of any other traffic and with such clear sight lines.

Newspaper_Nick

This is just one example. There are hundreds of videos like that. Another great feature of Tesla is that it likes to center itself in the lane. Even if you are not using the autopilot thingy, if the car starts to go out of lane, it automatically corrects its traction and returns to the lane with a beeper warning signal. That is exactly why the accident that the OP posted happaned. The driver got distracted and the car drifted out of lane. So it is safe to say that this accident could easily be avoided if the driver was using a Tesla.

PS: I am not getting a dime from Tesla

I-Like-To-Bike

It is safe to say anything on the Internet; riding a bicycle on a highway and depending on your safety on the relatively primitive state of the control and safe operation of autonomous vehicles on public highways , especially at high speed, is another thing all together.

It is well known that techno fan boys will spout the gospel for nothing.

Newspaper_Nick

Oh please man. I am so done with this debate. You hate technology, i get it. A bicycle is also a technological invention. Maybe one day we will have autonomous bicycles as well. Will you be hating those too? What about e-bikes? You hate them too? I mean at least these guys (Elon and others) come up with solutions to our everyday problems. They have ideas. What solution do you have? How would you avoid that crash? Please share your wisdom with us. All you do is bashing it. So please be constructive and tell us your solution. I really want to know.

gregf83 

Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad drivers out there, hence the 36,000 deaths every year in the US alone resulting from preventable accidents.

mr_bill

Such clear sight lines? Some bad drivers drive Teslas. Some bad drivers also ride bikes.

-mr. bill

MikeyMK

Electronics fail. Always have done, always will do. Electronic aids on cars fail.

When you need traction control, an electric window, or ABS, and it suddenly isn't there, it's inconvenient.

When you're sat in a Tesla reading the newspaper, and it's suddenly no longer going to avoid a cyclist, well, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it...

mcours2006

Once the technology is advanced enough to be deployed in all mass-produced vehicles there will probably be a reduction in cyclist fatalities. Computer error/glitch is going to be much, much lower than human error, especially now with distracted driving so prevalent.

When that first cyclist/pedestrian death occurs involving an AV, however, there will be a huge outcry. Investigations launched. Vehicles recalled. Etc. Pedestrians and cyclists die every hour of every day by human-driven vehicles and most of those barely make the news.

Leisesturm

If a cyclist were so unlucky as to be passed by a semi-autonomous vehicle at the exact instant its object detection fails, I for one, would be wondering what in Holy Hell they did to rack up that kind of game changer Karma. Maybe they have overdue library books. Maybe they wear fur. Maybe they have embezzled money from a parent. Something. They did something. I would have no sympathy. You haven't presented a solid case for halting the progress towards vehicles that will detect and avoid vulnerable road users. But thanks for playing. Visit us again.

gregf83 

No question, but properly designed systems can have much lower failure rates than humans are capable of. Unfortunately, the bar for matching human performance is very low.

I-Like-To-Bike

Really? Than why are the promoters of autonomous self - driving vehicles having such a difficult time fielding a "properly designed" level 5 AV systems, with the vehicles capable of being driven safely on any highway while the driver snoozes away?

Any prediction when bicyclists will be able to relax while cycling in the traffic lane because so-called "properly designed AV systems" are in control?

gregf83 

So I'll make a minor correction. The bar is very low for the current quality of human drivers (i.e. 36,000 deaths/yr), however, many including yourself, will hold Tesla and others to a much higher standard so it will take some time before self-driving is mainstream.

To reduce the accident rate you don't have to have fully autonomous driving. What they have now reduces stress and would eliminate many accidents even with a driver present. Most of the accidents I see during rush hour are just rear-enders that the current systems can deal with just fine.

Don't let 'perfect' be the enemy of good.

mr_bill

APR 15, 2019 06:41:57 AM MST*

*2019 Toyota Avalon with TSS 2.0. Unfortunately, they were "driving" a 2011/2012 Toyota Avalon.

-mr. bill

Newspaper_Nick

I am still waiting for your answer to my question. What is your solution?

stephr1

Or 5 lbs. of meat and flesh being ripped off by the pavement

slcurts

In this case ‘proficiency’ would include knowing you should slow down to a speed you can stop from within the visibility. That would include rain, fog, and darkness. I can’t believe how many people continue full speed ahead when they can’t possibly see very far.

Alzerbster

This was my first thought when I saw the video. I agree completely. You can't trust other motorists with your safety. We can blame the motorist all we want, but the cyclist wasn't doing everything he could to not get hit. You can't always assume other people are going to do the right thing, and be paying attention. This is the reason I avoid riding on roads.