nlerner

A colleague brought over his Breezer Uptown bike today as he's not received any satisfaction from the bike shops he's tried. The problem was that he felt like the rear end of his bike had gotten unstable. I think the first bike shop said they couldn't find the problem; the second sold him a fairly expensive new rear wheel with a Velo-Orange hub. Problem still persisted. Here's what the right chain stay looks like at the dropout:



I'll be switching parts over to either a Raleigh Gran Sport or a Peugeot UO-8 (both of which offer some complications, but they're the right size).

dedhed

How did a LBS not find that?

JacobLee 

Wow. I guess steel is also real … good at fooling shop employees. And holding the wheel on with only 75% of the structure intact. You should see if it will still ride with only 50%. Or not.

jdawginsc 

My though exactly. Unless it was sort of lined up like metal sometimes does, but even if so, they should have seen the crack a bit when they installed the rear wheel.

scarlson 

Come to Harvard after hours and I'll zap it back together with the mig.

Bring double IPA or good quality espresso.

I've been un-drewing dropout eyelets with the mig welder recently. Seems like a good solution for this problem as well, if you trust the rest of the frame. The paint will be somewhat damaged within 5mm of the repair, but no more.

nlerner

Hmm, I think I might take you up on that. I was keen to transfer the parts over to something else, but certainly easiest just to stick with this frame (which weighs an absolute ton, btw).

scarlson 

Great, shoot me a text or email! Always easier to stick with the devil you know, when it comes to frames..

I was also quite surprised at how heavy the Breezer Uptowns are! Don't quite know how they do it.

steelbikeguy

depleted uranium??

Steve in Peoria

Drillium Dude 

Perhaps they expected that the rider would've found something obvious like that; apparently not! I wonder what the ride felt like immediately after it broke; I'd imagine it would be weird enough to warrant a very close inspection.

DD

1simplexnut

I had a Gitane break on me in exactly the same place while giving it some herbs going uphill from a dead stop.
Was a most unusual sensation .
Wheel went all wobbly and jammed on chain stays .
Initially thought QR had let go but no ! found break in frame .
Only had the bike a few days too which I was not happy about


ouch

merziac

I would encourage the owner to reach out to whoever the company is now and run it up the flagpole just for drill. Its a liability regardless of age, ownership/purchaser, etc.

As far as the shops, they showed their true colors already, they can't find their own azz with both hands. I would send a very business like communique to any and all powers that be, again, just for drill but you never know.

Either way, I would take the good Mr. scarlson up on his generous offer.

scarlson 

Super agreed, if you can get a warranty frame, or anything, out of them, that's the best thing. I can wait to get my beer or coffee fix, if this takes time to pursue.

I'm also happy to write up an invoice for my work at standard machinists' rates if the owner wants to send that to Joe Breeze.

gkamieneski

I too snapped a dropout on a Bianchi Columbus SBX frame in just about the same spot in a training ride. At the time, thought I had snapped the rear axle what with the wheel wobble. Limped home and discovered it cut clear through.

Drillium Dude 

I once pulled the rear wheel over into the NDS chainstay from a dead stop - chromed rear DOs didn't give enough purchase for the start I was attempting. Didn't have a clue what had happened until after I'd gotten off the bike and taken a good look. Feeling was pretty much what you've described, although I was fortunate and nothing broke.

DD

SurferRosa

More important to sell an expensive wheel to a noob.

merziac

I wouldn't expect any help but would jump on the opportunity to ring the question the quality bell, giving some corporate shill the chance to do the right thing.

I would rather have a frame fixed by an accomplished craftsman than a suspect replacement from the company that didn't get it right the first time around.

Pretty sure Joe has nothing to with it at all anymore, sold out, lock stock and barrel quite some time ago?

Polaris OBark

I think he is still in the game. I saw him at Sea Otter a few years ago and he was complaining to someone else how he never really managed to play the corporate game. He seemed pretty reasonable. (I did not talk to him; just overheard his conversation.) It's a weak point in the frame. The new multi-dropouts some frame-makers now use look even more suspect to my untrained eyes.

merziac

ASI owns Breezer among many others with Fuji as their flagship.

Currently frames are limited lifetime warranty to the original owner, non-transferrable, and a bunch of other legalese.

https://pgwbike.com/docs/warranties/P...anty_U.S.A.pdf

GhostRider62

A Mig will misalign the quantum space AND that bike will never plane again.

bulgie 

Is it actually a proven fix, to weld right adjacent to the brass braze like that? I've always told people it was a bad idea, because the copper and zinc and other stuff in the brass would vaporize and make your weld all frothy and brittle. Have I been handing out misinformation? I'll admit my evidence that "it's bad" is limited to maybe one or two welds I saw that looked frothy and brittle due to brass in the vicinity, but I didn't do any testing on the welds to see if they were actually sound. That and getting the same advice from one or two old heads who also stated it as if it were a rule. (Confirmation bias, didn't question it because it was what I already believed.)

So I will bow to anyone with actual experience doing this, if you tell me it was reliable afterward. Oh and I guess I'll have to apologize to all the people I misinformed, talking as if I knew something.
Is it because that small amount of brass is just insignificant in a big 'ol MIG weld? Is there any special trick to making it successful?

A couple quotations come to mind, though I don't know who originated them:
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so." (Before you say it's Mark Twain, know that at least some Twain researchers have found no evidence of it. But it could still be him.)

repechage

As an experiment with no recourse to the brand, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
the possible braze residue on the dropout I would file off just for that contamination concern, the weld will get pretty close to the braze at center.
work both ends to the middle?

clubman 

Anecdotally, I snapped a Raleigh-Glider frame in the same location when I was quite young (late 70's). Went to the local welding shop, they tacked it together for a fin and I rode it hard another year. It was hi-ten but my gateway bike into C&V. Not smart but I got away with it.

ColonelSanders

Do you have a breakdown of the weight of frame and fork?

BFisher

Just did a google search and am seeing that these Uptowns weigh almost 35 pounds. Is that right?

seedsbelize2

I rode a hybrid for a short period of time before I found the cracked dropout. It was quite squirrelly.