LarrySellerz

Hey guys. Weird question, can a wheel without broken spokes catastrophically fail? I have a bike with a back wheel in pretty bad shape, multiple (8?) spokes keep losing tension (Ive been hand tightening them every ~ 10 miles but it doesn't make much of a difference.) None of them are broken but I have a pretty gnarly speed wobble that changes up on me. The question is, what's the worst case scenario? From what ive read and from what experienced people have told me, is that its pretty much impossible for the wheel to catastrophically fail without broken spokes, and it will become wildly out of true before that happens. Im a heavy guy (255 lbs now) and put a lot of wear on my components, and can't really afford to fix this bike right now. Today on the group ride people were concerned about the wheel and I decided to leave because of it, was kind of embarrassing.

How concerned would you be riding with a shot wheel, assuming you don't really mind the speedwobbles? Any horror stories?

veganbikes

Larry you should enjoy that wheel, I think it could help knock a little sense into you.

For those who thought maybe yeah I am having a similar problem. If your wheel is failing like described above time for a new wheel or a rebuild by a capable wheel builder. If you are frequently doing this on multiple wheels you might either need more spokes or possibly you need some handbuilt wheels again by a capable wheel builder and they can suggest some stuff to build a more reliable wheel. Don't ride with others on a broken bike and make sure you are regularly tuning up your bikes as needed.

Chuck M 

CAT7RDR

Larry, do you mind if I take out a life insurance policy out on you?
I feel lucky.

LarrySellerz

normally I ride bikes to failure, and for wheels this means when its rubbing against the frame. can they actually suddenly fail? I feel like I would notice a terrible wobble or something before that happens, I try to treat bikes gently for my safety when I can tell they are on their way out

wolfchild

Loose spokes = cracked rim.

Koyote

You never disappoint, Larry.

qwaalodge

Yes, once upon in 1997, a shot wheel catastrophically failed and took out a whole city block, started WW3, and robots took over. I went back in time to stop it from happening.


You should at least tighten the nipples with a tool, not with hand. Find someone who can true a wheel for you for free or watch youtube videos on DIY wheel truing. It may also be possible the treads on the nipples are shot and needing replacement. At your weight, you absolutely need to avoid using cheap wheelsets.

indyfabz

“People say believe half of what you see, son, and none of what you hear.”—M. Gaye

LarrySellerz

That makes sense, can riding with a cracked rim taco a wheel? I feel like sense it’s the back wheel I should be OK unless something horrible happens

livedarklions

A cracked piece of metal supporting a heavy load breaks when you hit a bump? You want to run the experiment of what happens when the back wheel fails, knock yourself out. Literally.

No one's goingbto tell you that ride to failure is a good plan. Given the likelihood that the failure is going to cause damage to the bike and yourself, any notion this makes economic sense is absurd.

biker128pedal

I had the the same issue with a Bontrager wheel from back in 2006 time period. Pain. Had the shop tension the wheel many times. As said above the rim eventually will crack. Trek replaced it under warranty. Second wheel the same problem. I’ve built a few wheels so figured some spike prep was needed. Did not want to completely rebuilt so used some green wicking Loctite. Helped so I’d only get loose spokes every few months. After 11 years the wheel rim cracked. Oh this was an aluminum rear wheel. So upgraded to Aeoles Pro 5 wheels. May be the deep rim but never touch them. After the Madone frame broke these carbon wheels are on a rail trail, lite touring, bad weather bike.

Permatex makes a wicking thread locker version. Heck nail polish would work and add color. I’d thread lock the offending spokes and keep and eye on the rim. Then budget for new wheel.

indyfabz

Common “since” (and sense) is not common for some.

DangerousDanR

I have had a wheel fail with multiple cracked spoke holes... On our tandem. The cracks had gone from being not visible to major in about 20 miles.

We did not crash. We stopped immediately when we felt the wobble. Fortunately this happened at home, and we walked the last mile. We have also had a wheel on the tandem crack from an impact at a single point. There were no loose spokes, but the wheel was cracked and bent. We rode that slowly for 5 miles back to the B&B we had stayed the previous day. That was the end of our riding on that tour.

I know you like to do things your own way. But you are describing multiple loose spokes. Stop riding on that wheel.

We used to say something at my old Fire Department: "somewhere somebody is going to do something stupid and I want a front row seat." Continuing to ride that wheel qualifies.

cyccommute 

If the wheel has spokes that become loose enough to tighten by hand, you are risking sudden collapse. Spokes under tension will stand up to an incredible amount of force. Spokes that aren’t under tension…like ones where you can tighten the spoke nipples by hand…have all the strength of a cheap coat hanger. Additionally, the rim is also strong under tension but not under tension, it has all the strength of a beer can.

Bottom line: your wheel is headed towards total collapse and will likely do so when you go around a corner which is where lateral forces on the wheel are at their highest. Ask yourself how much you like picking road rash scabs (at the best).

indyfabz

Especially “sense” he rides shirtless.

Iride01 

Yes, your wheel can taco on you if the right number of spokes in the right places get loose enough. It'll probably do this when you are at speed on a downhill twisty trail. Hope that it's your rear wheel and not the front.

Having to tighten spokes every ten miles and not thinking it needs some more experienced person looking at the wheel doesn't seem .....

LarrySellerz

The wheel is trash but the drive chain also needs attention (new chain, chain and cassette?) and I don't really want to pay $200 to get a $400 bike fixed. I know it needs attention and I guess I'll retire this bike and only ride it if I don't have another in better shape. In this instance, the question is not "is my rear wheel broken" its "will my rear wheel necessarily display worse symptoms than it does now before it fails."

For some people, especially poor fat people who don't drive and destroy components, it can be more economical to constantly keep an eye out for dumpster bikes and ride them to failure, than attempting to maintain a nice bike or two. I have 6 bike shaped objects right now, bit of a hoarder its bad. Found an abandoned trailer at work to keep my bikes in.

Iride01 

When I need the wheels of my bike looked at, I take them off the bike and to the LBS's here. They don't charge much to go over them. At least not here, and they'll even fiddle with them on the truing stand for a few seconds checking tensions and stuff while I wait and watch. If the wheel doesn't need much then they many times give them back to me free of charge. If one wheel needs some more in-depth looking at then it might cost me $15 - $20 when I get the other back in a day or two.

$400 a bike to destroy them will get expensive quick. While I don't know how it goes for them, when I ride in organized century rides there are quite a few heavy men and woman that speed past me in a paceline while I'm solo or a group of 3. They seem to be on nice mid range priced bikes in the $2000 range.

So if you are buying cheap used $400 bikes, I think there is a flaw in your thinking. If instead you are getting $0 bikes that you just put tires on, that's probably okay.

ggpepper

It needs to be said.
"Larry, is this your homework?"
"This is what happens when you .... and a stranger in the ..."

tomato coupe

Put this bike back in the dumpster and get another one.

Mackers

Find a stranger in the Alps?

GhostRider62

How bout someone send Larry a wheel they have laying around. Think of it as payment for the comedy that he has generously given us all.

LarrySellerz

since I’ve moved from a college town the quality of dumpster bikes has really deteriorated. I used to be able to find a rideable bikes all over the place just keeping my eyes open during moving season

indyfabz

I have a pair of red CXP33s I am willing to part with. 32h. DA hubs. 2001 vintage. Worn braking surfaces. I’ll even throw in the NDS spokes for free. They would be perfect for him. Fodder for the next thread.