Specialized Flag Crank Ring BCD options
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Specialized Flag Crank Ring BCD options
I am looking to acquire a specialized flag crank in triple for a road bike and I believe the ratios for triples are designed for mountain bike riding. I am looking for the biggest ring to be a 52. Does anyone know the BCD of this crank and economical options to achieve more road gearing for this crank (ie 52 teeth)? Cheers!
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Velobase.com reports that it’s 110/74 bcd, so lots of options for a triple.
https://www.velobase.com/ViewCompone...m=115&AbsPos=0
https://www.velobase.com/ViewCompone...m=115&AbsPos=0
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I have one of these and I can confirm that mine is 110/74. It's a nice crank.
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They also came in 144 BCD with no provision for a granny ring, if you want a "pure road race" crank.
Both were designed by Jim Merz, once of the first things he did when he went to work for the Specials.
The 110/74 crank was vastly more popular of course; you hardly ever see the 144 version.
Specialized and others made many sizes of rings in 110, including 52t. Not the most common, but I wouldn't call them rare. The bigger rings were popular on tandems.
I probably have one or more 52s, probably even a 54, hit me up in PM if you want me to go look. I won't charge premuim prices for those sizes because I'll never use rings that big myself.
My pile of 110 rings isn't super convenient, so I'd rather not go inventory them right now unless you're actually interested.
Watch out for cracks in the right crank, right where the two adjacent spider arms join the crank. I have two 110/74 Flag cranks, both cracked there. I recently considered buying another set I saw on ebay, until I looked real close at the photos, and yep sure enough, same crack in the same place. I alerted the seller, and he didn't take it down — either he doesn't see the crack and/or doesn't believe me, or he's just hoping the guy who buys it doesn't get hurt too bad when the crank breaks!
To be honest, I've never seen one completely break. I didn't keep riding the ones where I found cracks, so I don't know what happens if you keep riding them. Some fatigue cracks don't propagate, or do so only very slowly. Lots of folks got good long miles on their flag cranks without them ever cracking, so it is by no means inevitable. I am large, and both my cracked cranks are 180 mm length = more leverage amplifying my already "ample" weightiness.
Oh yeah right, just remembered, one of my flag cranks was mostly ridden by my friend Fred who is about 6'7" and was a semi-serious racer. The Flags were on his touring bike, but that guy always pedaled hard. I got the crank from him with the crack in it already. I filed out the cracked metal with a needle file and polished out the file marks. Still have that crank around here somewhere, might put it back on a bike one of these days. That repair can suffice, if you catch it while the crack is very small. The trick is knowing where the very tip of the crack is, and filing off all the cracked metal. The tip of the crack can be microscopic, so it's hard to know for sure you got it all. Dye-penetrant testing is recommended.
BTW Campy "old Record" (sometimes called Nuovo Record) cranks were known to crack in that very spot, and the lore I heard reported a few times was that Campy allowed you to file away that sharp edge where they crack, without voiding the warranty. Supposedly the only modification to a Campy part that was allowed. That's just hear-say though, never heard that directly from Campy — grain of salt recommended. But I have filed probably a dozen or two old Record cranks that way over the decades, got fairly good at it. I never had a crack "return" or continue propagating after I had filed one, that I can recall anyway. On some of those cranks, the filing was done prophylactically, before any crack was seen.
But I digress!
Mark B
Both were designed by Jim Merz, once of the first things he did when he went to work for the Specials.
The 110/74 crank was vastly more popular of course; you hardly ever see the 144 version.
Specialized and others made many sizes of rings in 110, including 52t. Not the most common, but I wouldn't call them rare. The bigger rings were popular on tandems.
I probably have one or more 52s, probably even a 54, hit me up in PM if you want me to go look. I won't charge premuim prices for those sizes because I'll never use rings that big myself.
My pile of 110 rings isn't super convenient, so I'd rather not go inventory them right now unless you're actually interested.
Watch out for cracks in the right crank, right where the two adjacent spider arms join the crank. I have two 110/74 Flag cranks, both cracked there. I recently considered buying another set I saw on ebay, until I looked real close at the photos, and yep sure enough, same crack in the same place. I alerted the seller, and he didn't take it down — either he doesn't see the crack and/or doesn't believe me, or he's just hoping the guy who buys it doesn't get hurt too bad when the crank breaks!
To be honest, I've never seen one completely break. I didn't keep riding the ones where I found cracks, so I don't know what happens if you keep riding them. Some fatigue cracks don't propagate, or do so only very slowly. Lots of folks got good long miles on their flag cranks without them ever cracking, so it is by no means inevitable. I am large, and both my cracked cranks are 180 mm length = more leverage amplifying my already "ample" weightiness.
Oh yeah right, just remembered, one of my flag cranks was mostly ridden by my friend Fred who is about 6'7" and was a semi-serious racer. The Flags were on his touring bike, but that guy always pedaled hard. I got the crank from him with the crack in it already. I filed out the cracked metal with a needle file and polished out the file marks. Still have that crank around here somewhere, might put it back on a bike one of these days. That repair can suffice, if you catch it while the crack is very small. The trick is knowing where the very tip of the crack is, and filing off all the cracked metal. The tip of the crack can be microscopic, so it's hard to know for sure you got it all. Dye-penetrant testing is recommended.
BTW Campy "old Record" (sometimes called Nuovo Record) cranks were known to crack in that very spot, and the lore I heard reported a few times was that Campy allowed you to file away that sharp edge where they crack, without voiding the warranty. Supposedly the only modification to a Campy part that was allowed. That's just hear-say though, never heard that directly from Campy — grain of salt recommended. But I have filed probably a dozen or two old Record cranks that way over the decades, got fairly good at it. I never had a crack "return" or continue propagating after I had filed one, that I can recall anyway. On some of those cranks, the filing was done prophylactically, before any crack was seen.
But I digress!
Mark B
Last edited by bulgie; 06-09-22 at 03:57 AM.
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Two different “forgings” of 110 flag cranks
Just wanted you to be aware that there are two (maybe more) forgings of these cranks. One the really nice coveted cold forged crank and the other a more run of the mill crank that I think is melt forged or cast crank, someone here will know. I have both and you can immediately tell which one is nicer. The cold forged one is more polished and has a more rounded shape. The melt forge/cast crank is flatter and looks like a mid level sugino crank. You can really tell the difference in the photos of the back of the spider. The cold forged version has a cone shape around the opening for the spindle. Sorry, I should have polished these up for the photos. Both of mine have the spider cracks that Mark mentioned, I plan to file them as he suggested. When you are searching for these cranks look for the cold forged ones or don’t pay too much for the melt forged/cast ones.
Coveted cold forged version on the right
Coveted cold forge version on right
Cold forged version
Melt forged/cast ?? Version
Cold forged version on right
Coveted cold forged version on the right
Coveted cold forge version on right
Cold forged version
Melt forged/cast ?? Version
Cold forged version on right
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They also came in 144 BCD with no provision for a granny ring, if you want a "pure road race" crank.
Both were designed by Jim Merz, once of the first things he did when he went to work for the Specials.
The 110/74 crank was vastly more popular of course; you hardly ever see the 144 version.
Specialized and others made many sizes of rings in 110, including 52t. Not the most common, but I wouldn't call them rare. The bigger rings were popular on tandems.
I probably have one or more 52s, probably even a 54, hit me up in PM if you want me to go look. I won't charge premuim prices for those sizes because I'll never use rings that big myself.
My pile of 110 rings isn't super convenient, so I'd rather not go inventory them right now unless you're actually interested.
Watch out for cracks in the right crank, right where the two adjacent spider arms join the crank. I have two 110/74 Flag cranks, both cracked there. I recently considered buying another set I saw on ebay, until I looked real close at the photos, and yep sure enough, same crack in the same place. I alerted the seller, and he didn't take it down — either he doesn't see the crack and/or doesn't believe me, or he's just hoping the guy who buys it doesn't get hurt too bad when the crank breaks!
To be honest, I've never seen one completely break. I didn't keep riding the ones where I found cracks, so I don't know what happens if you keep riding them. Some fatigue cracks don't propagate, or do so only very slowly. Lots of folks got good long miles on their flag cranks without them ever cracking, so it is by no means inevitable. I am large, and both my cracked cranks are 180 mm length = more leverage amplifying my already "ample" weightiness.
Oh yeah right, just remembered, one of my flag cranks was mostly ridden by my friend Fred who is about 6'7" and was a semi-serious racer. The Flags were on his touring bike, but that guy always pedaled hard. I got the crank from him with the crack in it already. I filed out the cracked metal with a needle file and polished out the file marks. Still have that crank around here somewhere, might put it back on a bike one of these days. That repair can suffice, if you catch it while the crack is very small. The trick is knowing where the very tip of the crack is, and filing off all the cracked metal. The tip of the crack can be microscopic, so it's hard to know for sure you got it all. Dye-penetrant testing is recommended.
BTW Campy "old Record" (sometimes called Nuovo Record) cranks were known to crack in that very spot, and the lore I heard reported a few times was that Campy allowed you to file away that sharp edge where they crack, without voiding the warranty. Supposedly the only modification to a Campy part that was allowed. That's just hear-say though, never heard that directly from Campy — grain of salt recommended. But I have filed probably a dozen or two old Record cranks that way over the decades, got fairly good at it. I never had a crack "return" or continue propagating after I had filed one, that I can recall anyway. One some of those cranks, the filing was done prophylactically, before any crack was seen.
But I digress!
Mark B
Both were designed by Jim Merz, once of the first things he did when he went to work for the Specials.
The 110/74 crank was vastly more popular of course; you hardly ever see the 144 version.
Specialized and others made many sizes of rings in 110, including 52t. Not the most common, but I wouldn't call them rare. The bigger rings were popular on tandems.
I probably have one or more 52s, probably even a 54, hit me up in PM if you want me to go look. I won't charge premuim prices for those sizes because I'll never use rings that big myself.
My pile of 110 rings isn't super convenient, so I'd rather not go inventory them right now unless you're actually interested.
Watch out for cracks in the right crank, right where the two adjacent spider arms join the crank. I have two 110/74 Flag cranks, both cracked there. I recently considered buying another set I saw on ebay, until I looked real close at the photos, and yep sure enough, same crack in the same place. I alerted the seller, and he didn't take it down — either he doesn't see the crack and/or doesn't believe me, or he's just hoping the guy who buys it doesn't get hurt too bad when the crank breaks!
To be honest, I've never seen one completely break. I didn't keep riding the ones where I found cracks, so I don't know what happens if you keep riding them. Some fatigue cracks don't propagate, or do so only very slowly. Lots of folks got good long miles on their flag cranks without them ever cracking, so it is by no means inevitable. I am large, and both my cracked cranks are 180 mm length = more leverage amplifying my already "ample" weightiness.
Oh yeah right, just remembered, one of my flag cranks was mostly ridden by my friend Fred who is about 6'7" and was a semi-serious racer. The Flags were on his touring bike, but that guy always pedaled hard. I got the crank from him with the crack in it already. I filed out the cracked metal with a needle file and polished out the file marks. Still have that crank around here somewhere, might put it back on a bike one of these days. That repair can suffice, if you catch it while the crack is very small. The trick is knowing where the very tip of the crack is, and filing off all the cracked metal. The tip of the crack can be microscopic, so it's hard to know for sure you got it all. Dye-penetrant testing is recommended.
BTW Campy "old Record" (sometimes called Nuovo Record) cranks were known to crack in that very spot, and the lore I heard reported a few times was that Campy allowed you to file away that sharp edge where they crack, without voiding the warranty. Supposedly the only modification to a Campy part that was allowed. That's just hear-say though, never heard that directly from Campy — grain of salt recommended. But I have filed probably a dozen or two old Record cranks that way over the decades, got fairly good at it. I never had a crack "return" or continue propagating after I had filed one, that I can recall anyway. One some of those cranks, the filing was done prophylactically, before any crack was seen.
But I digress!
Mark B
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I always heard that all the "flag" logo cranks were cold forged, while the ones with the stylized "S" logo were cast or melt-forged. In any case, I can see there being a couple different styles of forging in the flag cranks, maybe as a die wore out they introduced some changes to make them lighter or easier to finish or something, hence the two versions.
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I wonder if they decided that the 170mm length merited the investment in cold-forging, and almost no one would notice if they chose casting for the other lengths...
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This thread was a good reminder to do the “annual” crack check of my Flag cranks (Yeah! Cold-forged 170’s - thanks for that contribution, @retroshifter!) The file and polish job I did years ago when warned early in ownership seems to be doing fine.
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I remember being disappointed when the cheaper-looking ones came out, a few years after the originals. I can't prove the cheaper-looking ones are "melt-forged" (cast) but they look that way to me. Even if the later one are just as good functionally (I don't know), they don't appeal to me visually. But then again, the older ones, the kind I like, are the ones that cracked... I don't know if the later ones had that problem, wouldn't have seen it personally since I never used those. Anyone seen instances of cracking in the later, cheaper-looking ones? Maybe the changes they made were specifically to address the known cracking problem, and those are the ones we should be seeking out!
Mark B
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I'm not sure the OP's cranks are 110 bcd. These ~ 84 Super Customs are 110 cousins of the Apex triples but I think these are cold forged, hard to tell without a stamping.
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I think they all crack at the spider
I don't think that's true, because both of my 180 mm sets have all the indications of being cold-forged.
I remember being disappointed when the cheaper-looking ones came out, a few years after the originals. I can't prove the cheaper-looking ones are "melt-forged" (cast) but they look that way to me. Even if the later one are just as good functionally (I don't know), they don't appeal to me visually. But then again, the older ones, the kind I like, are the ones that cracked... I don't know if the later ones had that problem, wouldn't have seen it personally since I never used those. Anyone seen instances of cracking in the later, cheaper-looking ones? Maybe the changes they made were specifically to address the known cracking problem, and those are the ones we should be seeking out!
Mark B
I remember being disappointed when the cheaper-looking ones came out, a few years after the originals. I can't prove the cheaper-looking ones are "melt-forged" (cast) but they look that way to me. Even if the later one are just as good functionally (I don't know), they don't appeal to me visually. But then again, the older ones, the kind I like, are the ones that cracked... I don't know if the later ones had that problem, wouldn't have seen it personally since I never used those. Anyone seen instances of cracking in the later, cheaper-looking ones? Maybe the changes they made were specifically to address the known cracking problem, and those are the ones we should be seeking out!
Mark B
Crack in melt forged/cast version
Crack in cold forged version
Venerable Sugino AT crank, no crack, better transition design?
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You may be fine with the gear ratios this crank will provide with the right cassette. A 46 chainring and an 11 tooth cassette gives you a reasonable high gear. Plus you get a nice range of gears with a 46/36/24 crank and an 11 28 cassette. If running freewheels, yeah you’ll want bigger rings. Btw, I assumed the big is a 46 as that was common BITD for MTBs. But you may not need new chainrings
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OP's crank is 110mm BCD. Specialized-branded cranks were only offered in 144mm and 110mm BCD
https://velobase.com/ListComponents....c-46db6db3a675
The 110mm BCD crank also had a 74mm BCD mounting point for a "granny" gear:
Your crank is 86mm BCD, a clone of the Stronglight mod. 99 crank.
SR "Custom" series cranks (offered in a variety of BCDs) were melt-forged; "Apex" series cranks (also available in several BCDs) were cold-forged.
https://velobase.com/ListComponents....c-46db6db3a675
The 110mm BCD crank also had a 74mm BCD mounting point for a "granny" gear:
These ~ 84 Super Customs are 110 cousins of the Apex triples but I think these are cold forged, hard to tell without a stamping.
SR "Custom" series cranks (offered in a variety of BCDs) were melt-forged; "Apex" series cranks (also available in several BCDs) were cold-forged.
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Damn...all these years of not measuring and assuming things. Thanks