Help Identifying This Frame, Intermediate Level
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 156
Bikes: Colnago Super (panto) - Gios Professional (1st Generation C-Record) - Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra (Team USA) - Barellia Reynolds 531 - Fully chromed Columbus steel bike (Patelli?) Super Record Titanium
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
26 Posts
Help Identifying This Frame, Intermediate Level
Is it my turn? Let´s see if we can figure this one out:
I bought this frame from a janitor in Germany. I guess they were clearing out a basement. It was an (in-) complete bicycle in poor shape.
Frame and fork both fully chromed
Campagnolo Super Record group (2nd generation)
Campagnolo Chorus rear derailleur (1st generation)
Front derailleur missing
Modified 180 mm crankset without a date code
Cinelli 1R stem with a “Flying C”
Price reasonable.
I mean, VERY reasonable.
Matching numbers on bottom bracket shell and fork (“151”)
Columbus pigeon symbol on the fork
27.2 mm seat post
Thin Campagnolo fork ends, thin and short Campagnolo frame ends
Cinelli S.C. bottom bracket shell
Open fork tips, chain stay and seat stay ends
Concave seat stay caps
Sloping fork-crown
Fork-crown and brake bridge drilled for Allen nuts
For clamp-on front derailleur and shifters
Brake cable guides brazed on
Italian threads
126 mm frame width
Seat tube 50 cm c-c, upper tube 49 cm c-c. Yes.
No decals, no engravings, no cut-outs, no dealer sticker. I forgot to check the date code on the hubs before I sold them. None of the components in the pictures are those the frame came with, except for the headset, the seat post, the brake levers and the brake calipers; all of these were plain factory-style. The drilling, paint and panto was added later by my friend and myself (THAT was fun!).
I bought this frame from a janitor in Germany. I guess they were clearing out a basement. It was an (in-) complete bicycle in poor shape.
Frame and fork both fully chromed
Campagnolo Super Record group (2nd generation)
Campagnolo Chorus rear derailleur (1st generation)
Front derailleur missing
Modified 180 mm crankset without a date code
Cinelli 1R stem with a “Flying C”
Price reasonable.
I mean, VERY reasonable.
Matching numbers on bottom bracket shell and fork (“151”)
Columbus pigeon symbol on the fork
27.2 mm seat post
Thin Campagnolo fork ends, thin and short Campagnolo frame ends
Cinelli S.C. bottom bracket shell
Open fork tips, chain stay and seat stay ends
Concave seat stay caps
Sloping fork-crown
Fork-crown and brake bridge drilled for Allen nuts
For clamp-on front derailleur and shifters
Brake cable guides brazed on
Italian threads
126 mm frame width
Seat tube 50 cm c-c, upper tube 49 cm c-c. Yes.
No decals, no engravings, no cut-outs, no dealer sticker. I forgot to check the date code on the hubs before I sold them. None of the components in the pictures are those the frame came with, except for the headset, the seat post, the brake levers and the brake calipers; all of these were plain factory-style. The drilling, paint and panto was added later by my friend and myself (THAT was fun!).
Last edited by Nuovo Record; 08-02-21 at 05:08 PM.
Likes For Nuovo Record:
#2
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 156
Bikes: Colnago Super (panto) - Gios Professional (1st Generation C-Record) - Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra (Team USA) - Barellia Reynolds 531 - Fully chromed Columbus steel bike (Patelli?) Super Record Titanium
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
26 Posts
Who made this frame? I have no clue.
Thank you all very much in advance for the fun!
Let the games begin!
Last edited by Nuovo Record; 08-03-21 at 04:28 AM.
Likes For Nuovo Record:
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,262
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3811 Post(s)
Liked 3,336 Times
in
2,176 Posts
-----
appears near to 1982
combination of incasso brakes with no water bottle mounts is an odd one
steerer appears to be Columbus
-----
appears near to 1982
combination of incasso brakes with no water bottle mounts is an odd one
steerer appears to be Columbus
-----
Likes For oneclick:
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 156
Bikes: Colnago Super (panto) - Gios Professional (1st Generation C-Record) - Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra (Team USA) - Barellia Reynolds 531 - Fully chromed Columbus steel bike (Patelli?) Super Record Titanium
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
26 Posts
1982-ish was my guess, too.
What I find strange is the geometry and the long cranks.
There was only one chainring on the cranks (50 teeth), and the seats for the inner chainring were filed off.
There was no front derailleur but the left shifter was still there.
What I find strange is the geometry and the long cranks.
There was only one chainring on the cranks (50 teeth), and the seats for the inner chainring were filed off.
There was no front derailleur but the left shifter was still there.
Last edited by Nuovo Record; 08-03-21 at 03:51 AM.
Likes For Nuovo Record:
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 156
Bikes: Colnago Super (panto) - Gios Professional (1st Generation C-Record) - Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra (Team USA) - Barellia Reynolds 531 - Fully chromed Columbus steel bike (Patelli?) Super Record Titanium
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
26 Posts
You saw right through it! I had the frame re-chromed because of the rust on the right chain stay, but during the process it turned out that there was a lot more rust under the chrome than one could see. I din´t see the frame then because I was not there. The rust got removed (so I am told), and we decided over the telephone to re-chrome it anyway.
#7
Pedal to the medal
the long fishmouth finish on the drop outs both front and rear combined with what appears to a be steep ST angel and more lax head tube and the 180mm crank lead to think this was a custom build.
as usual, take what I say with a dollop of grease
as usual, take what I say with a dollop of grease
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 156
Bikes: Colnago Super (panto) - Gios Professional (1st Generation C-Record) - Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra (Team USA) - Barellia Reynolds 531 - Fully chromed Columbus steel bike (Patelli?) Super Record Titanium
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
26 Posts
"Custom-built" is what I think. Interestingly, it fits me like a glove.
I believe it is Italian. But who would, for example, make these "fish mouth" dropouts? I don´t see them so often. Was there a frame builder in Italy in 1982 who made frames with such dropouts?
I believe it is Italian. But who would, for example, make these "fish mouth" dropouts? I don´t see them so often. Was there a frame builder in Italy in 1982 who made frames with such dropouts?
#9
Edumacator
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,803
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2439 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times
in
1,964 Posts
Maybe the same builders that collaborated with Vicini. That was my original thought when I saw the stays and fork blades...then the scalloped tops of the seat stays, honestly.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 156
Bikes: Colnago Super (panto) - Gios Professional (1st Generation C-Record) - Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra (Team USA) - Barellia Reynolds 531 - Fully chromed Columbus steel bike (Patelli?) Super Record Titanium
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
26 Posts
Vicini...maybe we have a track here. Do you know more about this? Have you seen similar frames from Vicini?
Last edited by Nuovo Record; 08-04-21 at 02:32 PM.
#11
Edumacator
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,803
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2439 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times
in
1,964 Posts
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 522
Bikes: None in ridable condition
Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 644 Times
in
192 Posts
Those deep fishmouth stay ends (in my mind) place this frame in Emilia Romagna, in or around Bologna. The three builders that come to mind are the Patelli brothers, Ugo Chiesa and Rivola (who learned from Chiesa and had some frames labeled Rivola made by Chiesa).
The stamping on the bottom bracket doesn't look familiar to me but then Patellis and Chiesa did do a fair number of contract builds, so it could have been done at client's request?
Here are some random pics of somewhat similar features:
Patelli:
Rivola:
The stamping on the bottom bracket doesn't look familiar to me but then Patellis and Chiesa did do a fair number of contract builds, so it could have been done at client's request?
Here are some random pics of somewhat similar features:
Patelli:
Rivola:
Likes For MauriceMoss:
Likes For MauriceMoss:
#14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 156
Bikes: Colnago Super (panto) - Gios Professional (1st Generation C-Record) - Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra (Team USA) - Barellia Reynolds 531 - Fully chromed Columbus steel bike (Patelli?) Super Record Titanium
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
26 Posts
Yes, that looks good. Great!
The Patelli frames have very similar stay ends and lugs.
Do you have more pictures of the other two, perhaps?
Some more Rivola (from Ravenna, Emiglia Romagna):
https://cicli-berlinetta.com/product...-49-cm-silver/
https://www.frameteller.it/2016/03/31/rivola/
The Patelli frames have very similar stay ends and lugs.
Do you have more pictures of the other two, perhaps?
Some more Rivola (from Ravenna, Emiglia Romagna):
https://cicli-berlinetta.com/product...-49-cm-silver/
https://www.frameteller.it/2016/03/31/rivola/
Last edited by Nuovo Record; 08-05-21 at 11:29 AM.
Likes For Nuovo Record:
#15
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 46
Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times
in
12 Posts
MauriceMoss
Hi, have you more pictures of the Rivola?
Specially beneath the bottom bracket shell? And also all other details, fork crown, seat lug etc...
Hi, have you more pictures of the Rivola?
Specially beneath the bottom bracket shell? And also all other details, fork crown, seat lug etc...
#16
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 46
Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times
in
12 Posts
More pictures of the Chiesa frame?
#17
Strong Walker
which part of cermany did that come from? Each area had go-to shops for local racers with "special" requests. Shops in the south (Baden-Württemberg, Bavaria) often had close ties to italian shops, in Munich dere was Radsport Baldi who had close connections to Patelli, for example. Shops in the Ruhr area may have gone to belgium or dutch framemakers. Could of course also have been a local frame builder, each area had several who didnt see much distribution outside the vicinity, Redl, Altinger, Scheral in Munich, Rickert, Marschall, Krabo in the Ruhr and Rhein-Main region, Wechsel in Hamburg, Lüders and Grunow in Berlin etc etc...
Last edited by martl; 03-14-22 at 02:23 AM.
#18
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 46
Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times
in
12 Posts
Anyhow as Gianni Rivola states he build only 1000 frames for 15 years, one a half decade, ca. form 1978 for two years under guidance of Umberto Chiesa, till 1993/95.
So there do not exsist plenty of Rivola frames.
So there do not exsist plenty of Rivola frames.
#19
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 46
Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times
in
12 Posts
80 to 90 frames as regular yearly output.
Hightimes 1981 with 120 produces frames.
Hightimes 1981 with 120 produces frames.
#20
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 46
Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times
in
12 Posts
Recently I purchased a Rivola frame, 437 beneath the bottom bracket shell, rather tall frame with 61x58,5 cm, this spring actually.
I found Rivola 10, 110, 119, 149, 341, 629, 882, 883, 942, and my 437 As older modles without number etc.
I found Rivola 10, 110, 119, 149, 341, 629, 882, 883, 942, and my 437 As older modles without number etc.
Last edited by Ravi1990; 03-15-22 at 04:57 PM.
#21
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 156
Bikes: Colnago Super (panto) - Gios Professional (1st Generation C-Record) - Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra (Team USA) - Barellia Reynolds 531 - Fully chromed Columbus steel bike (Patelli?) Super Record Titanium
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
26 Posts
which part of cermany did that come from? Each area had go-to shops for local racers with "special" requests. Shops in the south (Baden-Württemberg, Bavaria) often had close ties to italian shops, in Munich dere was Radsport Baldi who had close connections to Patelli, for example. Shops in the Ruhr area may have gone to belgium or dutch framemakers. Could of course also have been a local frame builder, each area had several who didnt see much distribution outside the vicinity, Redl, Altinger, Scheral in Munich, Rickert, Marschall, Krabo in the Ruhr and Rhein-Main region, Wechsel in Hamburg, Lüders and Grunow in Berlin etc etc...
Last edited by Nuovo Record; 03-21-22 at 02:10 PM.
Likes For Nuovo Record:
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,829 Times
in
1,995 Posts
Likes For repechage:
#23
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 46
Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times
in
12 Posts
swallow tail - coda di rondine...
still two more post, till i finally can upload some images/pictures...
still two more post, till i finally can upload some images/pictures...
#24
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,796
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1392 Post(s)
Liked 1,324 Times
in
836 Posts
The seat tube looks really steep in your photo, suggesting a frame built for criterium racing.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#25
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cologne
Posts: 46
Bikes: Cicli Monti, milanese district Baggio by Losa ca. 1983 / gibi - Gianbattista Baronchelli Columbus SL 80s GPM CronoSpecial & Exploit + Modolo Super Prestige / Rivola 437 ca. 1982 Massalomabrda, Emilia-Romagna, by Gianni Rivola / Peloso '69 Alessandria
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times
in
12 Posts
Rivola 437
rare 3tt stem nos & nip
"hollow" drilled fork crown!
bit of "liquid" brazilian carnauba by mother's
pinned bottom bracket shell and visible pin - scatola moviemnto centrale con puntatura e spina visibile
pedals are still nos! Bought crank and chainrings sperately nos a few years ago and used them already on an other build
Last edited by Ravi1990; 07-07-22 at 11:58 AM.