Robvolz 

Bike: 70s Italian

Reason for question: adding triple campy crank and more teeth on the freewheel.

I found an intact Campy rally rear derailleur with the long cage. I was thinking of removing the cage and installing it on a NR rear derailleur when I started thinking, the rally was available for 2 years old, 1974 and 1975. Its campy so it can't be complete crap.

Keep the rally as is and enjoy. -or- do the swap because the NR is somehow better.

Advice please, and I do appreciate the experts on this forum.
Robert

robobike316 

I have been using an old Super Record with a Rally cage for a long time with a TA triple. I love it-works great and looks great. Having said that the Rally looks great also and I wish I had one! Any of them should work well on friction shifters. The general consensus back then was the shorter the cage the crisper the shifting, but if you need the length to take up chain on a triple the longer cage is probably essential.
My recollection from back then is that the Rally was meant to pull triples as a long cage touring derailler but was not in any way inferior. I do not recall there being a long cage Record or Super Record. As you know, the cages are interchangeable.
So I guess my answer is either way would be great! Switch em back and forth, I would be amazed if you were able to notice any difference in performance.

SwimmerMike 

For my 1971 Bob Jackson I put on a NR triple and then went to a NR RD with a SOMA long cage. It worked and I had no complaints. A few months later I bought a parts bike that had an early Rally. I swapped out the NR and put in the Rally with no other changes. For me, I found the the Rally had better shifting performance. I also think the Rally looks great.

JohnDThompson 

If your Rally is the first generation version with the sprung upper pivot, it will perform better than a long cage bolted onto a Nuovo Record body, The second generation Rally was essentially what you proposed: a long cage with the Nuovo Record body. The first generation Rally will perform much like a Shimano Crane, while the second generation will perform like, well, a Nuovo Record derailleur.

wrk101

From an economics standpoint, you are cannibalizing a $150 Rally derailleur to modify a $50 NR derailleur.

panzerwagon 

There are a bazillion campy NRs in the wild. It's rare to see a campy rally of any generation, let alone the first gen. If the performance suits you, I would use it.

Also, FYI-- I was able to purchase sprung pivot rebuild kits for the first gen rally from Mike at Boulder Bike this summer (sadly, they're currently in "hibernation").
Edit: here's a photo of the kit:

Campy Rally sprung pivot rebuild kit

3alarmer 

...there were a couple of versions of the Campagnolo Rally rear derailleur. I think I've used a total of three of them. altogether. They don't quite shift as well as the Competing Suntour Cyclone GT that was contemporary with them, but IME they shift about as well as the New Record derailleur you are considering modifying with the cage. So I would not do this, and I would just use the Rally derailleur you have been given by the bicycle parts gods. I think you can Google up more info on these, because I remember reading something long and detailed about them.. just now what and where. If you use a freewheel or cog set cluster with teeth that are twisted or cut to encourage easier shifting, they work even better.

Here is a picture of one currently in use, by me, on a French bicycle with Campagnolo compatible dropouts, a very fine Stella.

jdawginsc 

I have never used either so this post is more about aesthetics...

The Rally RD is one of the finest looking RDs I have ever come across. Super cool and I wish I had one, but not sure I would expend the dollars it would take to procure one.

Use the Rally as is.

cudak888 

The drop parallelogram Rally is superior to the Nuovo - if you have one of these, use it as-is.

This will be either the first or third generation Rally. The second-gen is basically a standard Nuovo derailer with the Rally cage on it - a kludge that presumably came about because Campagnolo was infringing on Suntour's patent, but I've heard this in passing, so it may be lore.

Lots of good reading here: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...erailleur.html

-Kurt

JohnDThompson 

The first generation Rally does not have a slant-parallelogram that would violate SunTour's patent; it has a dropped parallelogram like the Shimano Crane and Titlist. It also shares a sprung upper pivot with the Crane and Titlist design, something SunTour never adopted. The third generation Rally came out after SunTour's patent on the slant-parallelogram lapsed, and like most modern derailleurs incorporates both a slant-parallelogram and a sprung upper pivot.

If anybody's patent was violated, it was Shimano's, but I suspect the design changed because the second version was cheaper to produce than the original, and Campagnolo viewed wide-range derailleurs as a niche product not worth investing much time, money or effort into. Of course, all that changed when off-road bikes became popular.

cudak888 

That throws the whole "Suntour patent infringement" argument out of the running then, but it doesn't explain why Campagnolo backpedaled with it and went with the Nuovo upper knuckle for the 2nd-gen derailer.

The third-generation Rally is functionally identical to the first and differs only in finish and casting cosmetics; it does not have a slanted parallelogram:

First gen: https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...d-b2a3cf313619




Third gen: https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...d4593&Enum=108




-Kurt

JohnDThompson 

I have one of the 3rd generation Rallys, and it does have a slant parallelogram:

cudak888 

That's a long-cage Euclid.

-Kurt

JohnDThompson 

Ah, I stand corrected.

cudak888 

Makes us human.

-Kurt

Soody

This really does it for me. Gorgeous

Soody

This is tangential but I don't think you need a long cage derailer with a triple. Obviously you need a long enough chain to not explode in big+big, but it doesn't really matter if the derailer can't wrap small+small. That isn't a catastrophic fail nor a useful gear.

cudak888 

Corncob with a half-step triple? Challenge accepted.

-Kurt

d_dutchison

The original 1st version had a design flaw which made them prone snapping off just below the top knuckle.

They could break right between the "A"and the "G" if the bike was in an accident or even if it was shifted badly under a heavy load (like while standing on the pedals going up hill).

I remember replacing lots of broken ones in the 80's and salvaging the long cages and rollers for use on my Nuvo-Record. I did a major 4 month tour on a Nuvo-Record with a Rally gage with no problems at all. I would describe the shifting performance as functional, but no where near as quick and snappy as with the Suntour slant parallelogram alternatives.

Campagnolo's solution to the problem was to change the upper knuckle casting and add an aluminum web inside the gap where the derailleur was breaking. I've highlighted it in red in this repost of 3alarmer's photo from above.

... So the 1st gen. Rally has at least two versions.

I have the 1st version on my current daily rider. Shifting performance is good, on a par with the period Shimano double sprung derailleurs, and almost as good as the period Suntour's. It's also a surprisingly light derailleur for it's size.

In their day these were just a little cheaper than the Super Record (the one with the titanium bolts). In other words the 2nd most expensive derailleur you could possibly buy. Their price and reputation for fragility were, I suspect, big contributors to campag's decision to make Ver. 2 a technically inferior but reliable and much cheaper gear.

If you have the reinforced 1st version I would highly recommend using it as is. If you have the breakage prone original 1st version, you have to decide if the cool-factor is worth the risk of destruction in everyday use. For me it is - even if I am old enough to know better - but a Suntour VGT-Luxe shifts noticeably better - and the 1st Gen Campy Rally usually fetches a pretty penny on the auction site!



x