oblada

Hi everyone,

This is my first post here, so please let me know if this question would be better posted in another thread!

I'm looking to buy a nice folding bike as a surprise birthday present for my husband, but I don't have a clue about bikes (that's a whole other story; I haven't ridden one since I was a child and have quite possibly forgotten how, despite the saying). My husband isn't exactly a serious cyclist, but does use our city's bike-sharing program almost every day, and has mentioned wanting a folding bike that he could store at home without worrying about theft. He's ~180cm/5'11" tall and of average weight.

I've been reading a lot of reviews here and elsewhere, and narrowed the options down to the 4 mentioned in the title, but I'd love to get some input from the experienced riders here.

Some info about what I'm looking for:
1) Budget: ideally not much more than 2000€ including shipping (the Birdy is pretty much my limit)
2) Available in (or ships to) Paris
3) Main use would be for transport around the city, which is relatively flat (with the exception of one very hilly neighborhood, Montmartre, but that's not going to be a huge factor in my decision). I'd still like the bike to be comfortable for touring, so that he has that option, but I think off-roading would be unlikely.
4) A quick fold is not that important, as he rarely switches between different modes of transport. On the other hand, I doubt he'd want to spend minutes disassembling a bike on a busy sidewalk, either.
5) Good "rollability" (?? I know that's not the right term) when folded is rather important, as he would probably be taking the bike inside supermarkets, etc. fairly often, and in this city we don't really have shopping carts.

The contenders thus far are:
1) Birdy Touring: I've read that these ride very comfortably thanks to the full suspension, are solidly built, and have a relatively unfussy fold. However, they're reaaally stretching my budget.
2) Brompton M6L: everyone seems to appreciate these on this forum, and they sound like great commuter bikes, but I've heard they may not feel great to ride, so longer distances might be a challenge. Also, as mentioned above, their famous fold isn't that necessary for us.
3) Airnimal Joey Sport: I've read that these are about as stiff and fast as a regular bike, so that would be a major upside. I'm wondering if the fold is easy enough to manage on city sidewalks, and whether they could be, say, rolled around a store briefly without too much trouble.
4) Change Bike DF-702: similar advantages to the Joey, though significantly cheaper. Same questions about folding and rolling.

I've also considered the Tern BYB, but can't find many reviews online (and I know many on this forum are vocally anti-Tern due to their past hinge issues). Also the Tyrell Ive, but it seems to be better suited for shorter riders?

I'd very much appreciate if anyone could weigh in with advice, or just to tell me that the surprise thing is a stupid idea and my husband needs to try the bikes on his own (although we can always return if need be)

Thanks a lot!!

Jipe

In your list, there are two very different kind of folding bikes.

First, small folded, fully folding bikes, the Birdy and Brompton

Second, much bigger folded, not fully folding bikes because he front wheel must be dismounted.

You must define your needs, if you want to easily take your folded bike in a public transportation and need to fold it often, only the two first will be an option. Even the Airnimal Joey Sport with its 24"/ETRTO520 wheels is quite big folded (980×850×350mm).

Besides that, the strong points of both the Birdy and the Brompton is the ease of carrying luggage for a daily use. Both now can use a front bag which is really a pleasure to use. The Birdy as the advantage to also being able to use classic rear and front bike pannier like those of Ortlieb and Vaude for instance (this isn't possible with he Brompton, its rear rack is too low and too close to the bottom bracket, any wide bag is hit with the heels while pedaling).

The Brompton main weak points are its comfort on bad road and poor transmission. Even if it ride very well, it cannot compete with the 3 others.

The Birdy, even if it has smaller wheels, is a fast bike. Its wide tires (up to 2"/50mm) and full suspension make it very comfortable and make it usable on unpaved trail (I would compare it to a gravel bike, its not a MTB).

The Airnimal Joey Sport, even if it has a flat bar and no drop bar like the Joey Endurance, is basically a half folding (only the rear is folding) road race bike with medium size wheels. It has a major drawback: its wheel size is ETRTO520, there are very little tires available in this size, only two can (relatively easy be found, the Schwalbe One 23x520 and the Panaracer Pasela 25x520 both are pure fragile, high pressure (10 bar/145PSI for the Schwalbe One) narrow road tires (there is also a Terry Tellus 32x520 tire available only from Terry, not sure that the Joey Sport accept 32mm tires).

The Change Bike is a big wheel half folding bike (only the rear is folding) with the drawback of this concept, i.e. very big folded, almost as big as a not folding big wheel bike when removing the two wheels (unlike Brompton, Pacific Cycles and Riese & Müller, Change Bike prefer not to specify the folded size of the Change Bike bikes).

I would say, that if quick and smallest folded size are the key for you, go for the Brompton.

If you are looking for a small fold and a universal use bike (daily use, travel, carrying hings, of road/trails), go or the Birdy.

If folding isn't important for you, i.e.e you won't fold the bike often and want a road bike, go for he Change Bike.

Due to its wheel size, I cannot recommend the Joey Sport (this is based on practical experience, I once owned a ETRTO520 wheeled bike).

2_i 

The factor that you need to take into account is of the worldwide shortage of bicycles now, see e.g. here. It might be impossible to get a specific bike in time for a specific date.

oblada

Jipe, thanks a lot for your detailed reply! You're right about deciding on needs first; I should have divided my list into two categories, since I'm actually having a hard time deciding between a small-wheeled, highly portable bike and a full-size bike that folds for storage. I think it really comes down to how limiting the smaller, better-folding bikes are in terms of ride quality/distance, vs. how annoying the full-size ones are to fold/roll/travel with. There won't be much need to quickly fold the bike to hop on a train or anything like that, but I'm trying to imagine what someone would do with a bulky, hard-to-roll bike after entering a store, for example. Locking it outside would seem to defeat half the purpose of a folding bike.

I was already leaning toward the Birdy and the Change Bike (now even more so after reading your reply), since the Brompton seems to be the least comfortable and I'm already having a hard enough time finding the Joey, let alone thinking about wheel replacement.

Could you or anyone who's ridden/owned a Change Bike weigh in on just how unwieldy it is when folded? I've read pinholecam's excellent posts on the Change Bike, but still don't have a good idea of whether it would be a pain to lug around without a car.

The Birdy is quite appealing to me, but I'm struggling a bit with the price -- would love to be convinced, though!

Thanks again!

oblada

I had heard that, which was one reason I was tempted by the Brompton - it's readily available where I live. I was able to find one color of the Birdy Touring available immediately online, so I'm thinking I shouldn't delay too long if I decide it's the one I want. Otherwise, I'll just have to do a rain check on that birthday present and make it a regular present...

Schwinnsta

The Brompton is not uncomfortable. Many tour on them. You do have to be more careful of potholes and such due to the size of the wheels. Ideally you should try them before you buy if that is possible.

Jipe

I have several small wheels bike (and also large wheel ones).

The Brompton is Ok on good to average roads.

But on very bad roads, cobbles or off road, its really uncomfortable and you must slow down what isn't the case with the Birdy.

Now, a full size ETRTO622 wheels road race bike with high pressure 23 to 28mm road tires (like he Change is also uncomfortable on cobbles.

Honestly, I do not understand how competitors manage to ride so fast on the terrible cobbles of "De Ronde" or Paris-Roubaix for instance ?

For bike availability, as a registered Brompton owner, I received several mails of Brompton about their new online webshop available almost everywhere in the UE and I saw that there are a lot of bikes in stock immediately available for direct shipment to the customer of click&collect at any official Brompton dealer.

oblada

Interesting, thanks for your input! Can you compare the riding comfort of the Brompton with the Birdy? I'm just concerned that since we don't have much need for the universally lauded Brompton fold, its other features might not be worth the price tag. But if it's a pleasure to ride even setting aside the convenience of the fold, then maybe I should give it more consideration.

oblada

Yes, the availability of the Brompton is definitely an advantage. It's the only one of options I mentioned that I could actually check out in person. But it sounds like you're saying that even on good roads, the ride is just OK?

Jipe

The ride on good average roads is indeed OK, so really feasible even for long distances but its not as fast as a Birdy.

If you want to use your bike for several days bike travel, I definitely recommend the Birdy with it folding rear rack.

Winfried

Availability from local bike shops is an important parameter too with those unusual bikes.

Even in a city like Paris, the Birdy is only available from a single store (Les vélos parisiens in the 6th), and the Change/Airnimal aren't sold here.

You could also check bikes from Tern (available from Cyclable stores), as they might have solved their hinge issue by now; The Verge P10 has disk brakes, and a luggage block is available to stick a Brompton bag in the front.

Considering the Brompton is available in big cities and it rides well enough for touring — I'm not the only one using it as a touring bike —, I would suggest heading for Les vélos parisiens where you can try the Brompton and the Birdy. You'll find the Birdy rides better with its more rigid frame, but 1) folds bigger and 2) is more expensive (~2,500€ rear rack included). I also had a Birdy, but found the Brompton more practical because I know I'll never get stuck when taking it on a train/bus or hotel.

Tourist in MSN

I am pretty happy with my Airnimal Joey. It is a much earlier version, rim brake instead of disk brake. And when mine was built you could not fit a front derailleur to it, that limited gearing.

I have not ridden or used the other bikes you cite, thus I am only commenting on the Joey.

I do not understand your question about rolling it around a store. When folded, mine does not roll like a cart, it is something you have to pick up and carry. Mine is also not that light to carry but I do not know how heavy the newer ones are.

Mine rides almost as well as a full size bike. Three years ago I took mine on a week long trip where the tour group provided lodging and meals, we rode our bikes each day on a specified route, the tour group hauled our luggage for us in a van. I brought my Airnimal instead of a full size bike to test it out on a trip like that and I was not disappointed, I could have brought a non-folding bike. Of the dozen people in the group, I was the only one that had a folder. On three of those days we rode more than 75 km, so the bike rides well for a longer ride.

I built up my Airnimal from the frame, thus I chose most components. I am running a more common 24 inch wheel, 507mm wheels are much more common than 520mm, both of those wheel sizes are considered 24 inch.

Think of the Airnimal as one that folds, but does not fold as small as some others, but rides almost as nice as a full size bike. I feel some flex in the handlebar extension and the seatpost extension that I do not feel on a full size bike, but after several hundred km, I got used to that flex.

Where the Airnimal Joey performs poorly is if you have to pack it up in a small case for airline travel. To pack it in that small a box, it takes a lot of work and you have to be knowledgeable on the bike mechanical parts. I worked in a bike shop and I built up the bike from parts, but most people would have difficulty packing the bike into a small case for air travel.

A couple photos of mine.
https://www.bikeforums.net/20336169-post735.html

More info on mine:
https://www.bikeforums.net/20337340-post734.html

And someone had detailed questions on size when folded, which I answered here, the amount of folding to get to the point in these photos is very fast, but as you can see, this will not roll through a store, you would have to carry it or lock it outside.
https://www.bikeforums.net/21775501-post29.html

Your husband might have specific opinions on what he would like in a folding bike that he might not know until he test rides the various options. I think he should be involved in the decision on which to buy.

Also most folding bikes are built as a one size fits all, but unusually large or small people may not fit them that well, if your husband is not average size, that could be an issue too.

Winfried

Some folders can be rolled around folded, especially the Brompton — Terns have two options:Rapid Transit Rack, and Trolley Rack.

It's a useful feature if you can't/don't want to leave it locked outside and are allowed to take it inside.

Tourist in MSN

Thanks, I suspected that. I was aware that the Brompton had small wheels to roll it but I did not know others did too.

Schwinnsta

I have not had a Birdy but I have had Moultons, two of them. I am not fan of front wheel suspension. I find the efficiency I gain by being able to take on bumpy roads, I lose to bobbing. So just a net gain in weight. I think the rear wheel suspension on the Brompton is a net positive. I find the Brompton to be a good hauler. For the first two years I had the Brompton, I mostly road my large wheel bike. I noted that at the most it was perhaps 10% faster. However, the Brompton did so many things well, I just starting riding it most of the time.

BB

Winfried

Another bike you might consider, is the Belgium-engineered Ahooga.

Incidently, they just opened their first store in Paris at 96 boulevard Beaumarchais in the 11th (inauguration Sat 29th May)

Personally, I would get the disk brakes, and have the derailleur replaced with an Alfine 8/11 gear hub.

oblada

Thanks so much for the local tips Winfried! (I wanted to reply earlier, but I can only post 5 times every 24 hours…) I am indeed a bit leery of the fact that while the Change and Airnimal can be shipped here, they would be quite a pain to ship back if needed. I will reach out to Les vélos parisiens!

Did you find that the Birdy's folded size was impractical for bringing onto public transport or into hotels? I've been mainly concerned about riding comfort over small fold, since I figured my husband would mainly be either storing the bike in our apartment or rolling it into a store; but I hadn't thought that the Birdy would actually be bulky enough to affect your travel plans.

Also, if anyone reading this is familiar with the Tern BYB, I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts!

Winfried

The nice thing about Les vélos parisiens is that they sell both, so you'll get to testride them, and see them folded side by side. The Birdy is bigger than the Brompton, but less so than regular folders like Dahon/Tern.

The Birdy rides better on cobblestones because of its two shock absorbers and bigger tires, but otherwise, the Brompton is comfortable because it's made of steel.

If you think a store/hotel might object your bringing a bike inside, fold it before and carry it on your shoulder in an opaque bag such as Dahon/Tern's.

I've only seen the BYB once; It seems bulky, and a bit complicated to fold.

https://www.ternbicycles.com/en/acce.../carryon-cover

Nyah

Rollability [while folded] was a major consideration for me in choosing my first folding bicycle. Of the different brands which did that (Dahon, Brompton, Birdy, etc), Dahon came out on top, for me. Dahon Speed is chromoly and accepts 50mm tires so, no need for suspension devices (which add to weight and cost) because steel smooths out the ride and this type of steel (same that Brompton uses) is lightweight and strong. I'm very happy with this bicycle and am looking to make it a replacement for my larger-wheeled utility and touring bicycles.

Jipe

Yes, the Birdy is bigger folded than the Brompton.

But since its third generation Birdy 3 only marginally bigger (the Birdy 2 that loks very similar to the current Birdy 3 was bigger when folded).

Carrying the Birdy in a bag can be done just as for a Brompton.

Where the size difference makes a difference (length difference actually) is when storing the folded bike behind a seat like a car seat or train seat: the Brompton folded length is similar to many seat width, so the folded Brompton fits behind many seats while the Birdy folded length is bigger than most seat width and won't fit behind most seats.

Pictures are sometime more explicit than words, below side by side my Brompton and my titanium Birdy.



For the front suspension bobbing, I can compare the front suspension of the Birdy and of the Moulton since I have also two 20" wheels Moulton with leading link front suspension.

First bobbing of the front suspension of the Moulton only occur when pedaling off the saddle like when sprinting or climbing steep hill and pedaling off the saddle..

Second, the Birdy front suspension is a totally different design and behaves differently than the Moulton leading link front suspension, there is no bobbing due to its design.

The Ahooga, like the Joey and Change Bike, is a half folding/ half dismounting bike, the front wheel doesn't fold, it must be dismounted.

The Vellobike (also distributed in Paris) has a similar deign a the Ahooga but with a folding fork. It has no suspension but accepts 50x406 balloon tires.

Winfried

How does it roll folded? On its rear (right) wheel or both?

(Not that getting a Dahon would be a good idea, as they're badly distribured over here, and apparently throughout Europe.)

Nyah

It can roll on both wheels at once if they're trailing behind your hand. If the wheels are in front of my hand, then I roll it on just the front wheel (otherwise the crank rotates, the same as it does when rolling an un-folded bicycle backwards).

Always a good idea to get one (a chromoly model, not their aluminum models), if you can. If you can't, then you can't. No bad decision made, either way.

oblada

Thanks for the detailed info on the Joey! I hadn’t realized that it’s not at all rollable when folded - I believe the 3 others in the thread title are, including the full-size Change (though it apparently takes some practice).

As far as packing for travel, when you say “small case”, are you referring to carry-on size? I think if the Joey can’t be easily packed into regular checked luggage and also isn’t rollable, that would be a significant disadvantage.

I agree that my husband should ideally be involved in the decision, but he hates spending money on himself (that’s why he hasn’t been able to bring himself to buy his own bike yet). I figure that if he doesn’t like the bike I choose, we can always return it and get another. He’s 180cm (5’11”) and normal weight, so hopefully all the bikes I’m considering would suit him.
​​​

Tourist in MSN

By small case I meant checked luggage size for an airline without paying an oversize fee. To pack it requires some mechanical knowledge of bike assembly and disassembly. Sounds like Joey is out of consideration now.

Folding bikes are a compromise between portability and ride-ability. The Airnimals emphasis is more for a rideable bike, less portable than many other folders.

If you can find a dealer locally where your husband can try out the bike and ride it around a bit, that would be a big plus.

I have heard of people taking Bromptons onto airlines as a piece of carry on luggage. It is hard to beat that for portability.

pinholecam

The Change Bike is in the end a large wheeled folding bike and it will never get away from the physics that a larger 27.5 wheel will be still that after a bike fold.
Also the frame is full size and after folding in 2/5 of it it will still be 3/5 of the bike.

I have used it to get to work (rotating with my other bikes) and its maybe 1 to 1.5 minutes of folding, so thats not too big a deal to me.
The bike does roll on one of its wheel after fold (esp if the bike is using flat bars and not road bars like mine).
The rolling will need a little practice since the bike is larger/heavier, but its not something that is too hard.
I often use the bike to bring my kids out and I am pushing it into the train while lugging camera, and 2-3 bags of their stuffs. (so thats a measure of it being still ok )


However, your need for using it in a supermarket does concern me as I do think it will be too big and does not stand on its own when folded as well.
For grocery shopping, you will be pushing the bike, stopping at a shelf, standing the bike, getting stuff and repeating the process.
The 2 actions I put in bold and underline may make this a cumbersome experience. (not un-doable, but cumbersome )
Nothing beats the Brompton in this aspect (mho); ok.... maybe the Tyrell IVE is rather similar in this respect too.

What you get with the Change Bike are :
1. The freedom of full size in terms of ride quality, parts selection, ride versatility (gravel/trails/pavement/roads )
2. Folding when other full sized bikes won't have such an option. (eg. Trains, coach, etc ) ; Or fold and take a train if its raining/etc