Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Framebuilders
Reload this Page >

Drafting, CADing, building

Notices
Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

Drafting, CADing, building

Old 06-27-21, 08:50 AM
  #26  
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 8,493

Bikes: '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1203 Post(s)
Liked 1,166 Times in 646 Posts
Has anyone used Alibre Design?
Over a decade ago I purchased a full version for about $1200. Full 3d solid modeling, assembly modeling, etc. As a contractor, I model complete tilting vacuum trucks, patented carpet cleaning truck with intricate heat exchangers and designed my own super charger kit for Jeep XJ to the point of building a prototype.

__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.

Last edited by SJX426; 06-27-21 at 08:57 AM.
SJX426 is offline  
Old 06-27-21, 11:05 AM
  #27  
duanedr 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
Anyone fluent in BikeCAD want to comment? Mark B
No, I have used BikeCAD as well as RattleCAD. I'm pretty fluent in RattleCAD and think for hobby builders it's better. It's simpler and more intuitive and fewer ways to chase your tail. It outputs to PDF showing multiple views including chainstay detail, miter templates, fixture set up dimensions for various fixtures.. These can then be taken to the shop for reference. I printed the chainstay detail view in full size and taped the pages together and then my chainstay fixture sat on top and i could match it all up with 123 blocks to make sure crank/tire clearances were as designed. It's also really well supported. Manfred is super responsive.

I am new to BikeCAD and am not fluent. I think once you get your templates set up, i can imagine it being pretty fast to make a new design including custom paint, decals etc. I think for someone doing more production work, it could be really useful. For me, each bike is significantly different so I have to revisit nearly every detail which is inefficient, error prone and time consuming for a one off. If I was designing for a standard model that I would make 100 times in different sizes over the coming year I think it would make sense to invest the time to model it all out in BikeCAD then each new bike would be very quick to get measurements for. It doesn't output the multiple views that RattleCAD does so I have to cycle through the perspectives and print and then open new templates and print again and I have about 6 different views I like to have for different purposes so, that's cumbersome. I suppose if I had a computer in my shop it would be better. BikeCAD has a thousand 'how to' videos which can be helpful. It's powerful and amazing with great support but a bit overkill for me. Of course, knowing that I don't know that much about it yet, there could be things i have missed that would make BikeCAD a ton easier...I just don't know it yet.
.
Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
Long boring history explaining why I don't just upload my spreadsheet here; skip unless interested:

Mark B
Since it's just math, and it's probably not patented/copyrighted, I doubt they would have a case against you for sharing. I also get the point of not wanting to spend money to defend a spreadsheet with math in it. I believe I've seen the output from it and BikeCAD has a similar CSV output that can be configurable with the measurements the builder wants and then opened in Excel. RattleCAD's xml file could probably be parsed to provide something similar.
__________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54319503@N05/
https://www.draper-cycles.com
duanedr is offline  
Old 06-27-21, 11:36 AM
  #28  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 10,248

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 111 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3317 Post(s)
Liked 2,042 Times in 1,329 Posts
Slightly off topic - I cad draw all my frames onto one AutoCAD drawing. 2-D, bottom bracket as origin. Each serious bike gets 3 layers; centerlines of tubes and hub centers, outlines of tubes and parts/wheels. This has been very, very useful. I've had a frame built from it that is the most fun ride I've ever had. I do quick measurements of potential purchases and lay them over this drawing to see if I want it and what stem I need. I sometimes dream up new ideas and save them as new layers.

Around the same time I started this drawing I read an article the author of which opined that trail vs quickness of steering wasn't a constant over varying head angles but instead could be approximated with a line. He gave the slope. (I think in terms of rake vs head angle, not trail. So I made up an AutoCAD drawing of rake vs head angle. Plotted the bikes I've owned. The bikes I've liked fell on a parallel line (I like quicker steering than the author.)

The frame of my logo photo was designed on my frame drawing and sent to TiCycles to be engineered and built. (I didn't spec tubes. Dave Levy knows that stuff far better than I.) The dropouts came right off my drawing. An 11 degree angle to horizontal, roughly 2" slot and opens down at the front so the slot is "L" shaped. Cut from 1/4" plate. The angle was chosen to be as close to horizontal as possible while still keeping the brake pads on a Velocity Aero semi-deep rim. I can run any cog between 12 and 24 teeth without messing with either chain length of brake pads (or derailling the chainring to get the wheel out/in). A joy for quick fix gear wheel changes/flips. I do on the road wheel flips all the time. 2 minutes and completely clean hands. I can remove the wheel and change a cog in 5.

So - 2-D cad drawings for frames? As a lifelong enthusiast (maybe a little more serious - over the crazy post TBI years cycling was my link to sanity and away from drugs, institutions or death) its been both a lot of fun and a gift. Being able to send a builder the drawing saves a lot of misunderstanding.

Last edited by 79pmooney; 06-27-21 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Accidently hit send mid-way through writing this
79pmooney is offline  
Likes For 79pmooney:
Old 06-27-21, 04:31 PM
  #29  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 22,547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2,102 Times in 1,500 Posts
Originally Posted by duanedr View Post
I am new to BikeCAD and am not fluent. I think once you get your templates set up, i can imagine it being pretty fast to make a new design including custom paint, decals etc. I think for someone doing more production work, it could be really useful. For me, each bike is significantly different so I have to revisit nearly every detail which is inefficient, error prone and time consuming for a one off.
Just like any cad program, BikeCad is pretty awkward to use at first. I can pop out a design pretty quickly now because I have done it enough to remember where the settings are. Similarly, I found rattlecad to be a pain. Since I didn't really need it, I never learned it that well.
unterhausen is offline  
Likes For unterhausen:
Old 06-28-21, 09:24 AM
  #30  
duanedr 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Just like any cad program, BikeCad is pretty awkward to use at first. I can pop out a design pretty quickly now because I have done it enough to remember where the settings are. Similarly, I found rattlecad to be a pain. Since I didn't really need it, I never learned it that well.
Yes, I think there are a couple things that still catch me out and I assume it's just 'time at the keyboard' to get over them. To Mark's question, either one is quite quick to make size adjustments to an existing design and then print out the measurements/designs and start working.
__________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54319503@N05/
https://www.draper-cycles.com
duanedr is offline  
Old 09-29-21, 11:31 AM
  #31  
SilversSpeed
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 3 Posts
If you need positive or negative molds made let me know! I can make lower cost molds from wood and you can finish sand them/coat them with mold release.The machine I have access to is accurate to about +/- 0.01" not as great as metal molds from high end CNC machines but good enough for a custom bike.
SilversSpeed is offline  
Old 12-02-21, 08:40 AM
  #32  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 15,986

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1485 Post(s)
Liked 396 Times in 307 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
As a practical matter, I don't think it would be very good. Wheel2nut's picture is at some odd angle to the centerline of the frame. If it was square to the frame, then you would have a better chance. But you still are fighting lens distortion.

There are programs that try to make a 3d scan from pictures, I have no idea how successful they are. I would start there. But that's a real rabbit hole.
There is mathematics that can describe the correction from photo geometry to real object geometry so theoretically it should be possible to program it up. But I only know of the math, I don't know the math. and my experience in optics says the effect of lenses are also challenging to model. The math is called projective geometry, but I certainly don't know it well. And I don't have any sense of how it needs to be managed to create a model of known accuracy - without that my guess is you'll make something closer to what you really want or conceive just using 2D or a drafting table, though it may look well. I know I can draw the location of a hole much more reliably than I can drill a hole.

If you want the data for Wheel2nut's frame, get him/her to send it to you.
Road Fan is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
RubeRad
Framebuilders
10
06-10-13 08:25 AM
ultraman6970
Framebuilders
20
10-19-10 05:20 PM
KasbeKZ
Framebuilders
7
05-07-10 07:57 AM
stryper
Framebuilders
36
02-14-10 02:54 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.