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HOW do you survive without a car?

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HOW do you survive without a car?

Old 05-14-16, 08:21 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
You mean people who slave away at minimum wage jobs and struggle to survive and pay their bills and put enough food on their table ??.
I suspect that the numerous third world nationals working in the prosperous countries as servants and laborers for the locals are working to put enough to put food on the tables of their families back home where the working conditions/wages and job opportunities are even worse.
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Old 05-14-16, 08:34 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Here let me give you a simple interpretation of those pics: Public transit sucks in most third world countries, is dangerous, uncomfortable and just a huge PITA to use. Another thing to look out for is cultural trends of the countries. I don't know about Saudi Arabia but in some countries having a car is a status symbol which will get you more respect. In many countries car-free people are considered lower class citizens.
We're way off-topic, but Saudi Arabia is not a third world country. It's the world's largest oil producer and exporter, and is pretty rich.
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Old 05-14-16, 09:25 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by RichSPK View Post
We're way off-topic, but Saudi Arabia is not a third world country. It's the world's largest oil producer and exporter, and is pretty rich.
I know, you're right....And none of the business CEO's and businessman who own oil companies would ever consider going car-free and walk, use 50 year old minibuses or bicycles as their daily transportation.
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Old 05-14-16, 11:11 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by wrldtraveller View Post
well. all post are awesome on this thread. I had a japanese friend visit me one summer. He was surprised to see so few people riding their bikes or walking around. I was perplexed and asked him for more explanation. He explained that in Japan, many apartments tend to have first floor as retail/grocery. so many people choose to not have a car because they can just walk a couple blocks to buy groceries. Its different in North america, we tend to place homes far away from the retail places. For instance, Where I live, it is impractical for me to ride my bike to work because it would take me in excess of 3 hours one way. So i drive out of necessity. But my next goal is to earn enough money to live closer to my home. again, it all depend on how much you can afford to find a place closer to your work. For example, if you worked in downtown, and you wanted to have a home close by (walking distance or biking distance) most houses would be in the 3/4 million dollars or more. For me, thats too rich for my blood. So many people would prefer to live farther away because the prices of homes are cheaper. As to apartments, or condominums, the one closer to downtown are much higher, a small 1 bedroom condo would be in the stratosphere of 300,000 dollars or higher. Then again, it all comes to affordability. It is affordable to have a house/apartment that are farther from downtown core, and put up with driving a car, or put up with hours of transit trips. I usually use transit (light rail or bus) to commute to School as it is more practical to use Light rail transit. but for work, I drive because time wise, driving is shorter than light rail as well. it would take me 30 to 40 minutes driving time one way, using transit (light rail and bus) would take me a little more than 1 hour one way(barring any incidences such as break down).

P
Almost everyone in New York City how doesn't live in Manhattan has a 1 hour transit commute or more. I don't find an hour long commute on a bus to be overly hard especially when sleeping through most of the trip. I would find a half hour commute driving to work to be very hard.

People want to save time in commuting so they drive. However, a car commute maybe costing you more money each year because your transportation costs are much higher than someone taking a bus. Time is money but it also costs a lot of money to save time.

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Old 05-14-16, 11:18 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I know, you're right....And none of the business CEO's and businessman who own oil companies would ever consider going car-free and walk, use 50 year old minibuses or bicycles as their daily transportation.
You must really hate your former self.
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Old 05-14-16, 11:50 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
You must really hate your former self.
+1.
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Old 05-14-16, 12:07 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by sjanzeir View Post
You're probably right. I thought that the pictures would speak a thousand words, but apparently they were the wrong words. The idea I was trying to bring across is that with these buses, combined with the heat and road conditions, it would be nearly impossible to get around and stay fresh and presentable. The decades-old problem with this country is that there never has been a proper, publicly funded, city-managed "public" transport system in the true sense of the word (i.e. as understood in the Western world.)

There were more than one attempt by Saptco and others to set up an urban system a few years back, but they just couldn't get it done right the first time; they just couldn't compete with the privately owned buses. The drivers of those buses charge passengers less than half what big-ticket corporations like Saptco would charge (why pay five riyals to get somewhere when you could pay two?)

The government has been trying for years to eliminate them, but there was no legal way to put them out of business (and they would just up and complain to the king or the region's prince every time the municipality or the traffic department fires a salvo.) The only move the government could make is to prevent them from replacing their old buses with new ones, so that's they they kept running those decades-old Toyota Coasters.

So, all of these factors, plus the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of low-wage foreign workers who depend on these buses to get around, the the fact that gas is comparatively cheap, and most everyone as their dog own cars, it's kind of hard to set up a public transport system and get enough people to use it to make it economically feasible for the city and the operators. They're building a subway system in Riyadh now, but whether or not it would be popular enough to cover its costs is anybody's guess at this point.
I guess those of us like myself who are carfree should be considered lucky. Thanks for sharing with us your story from halfway around the world.

However, none of us are doomed to a car dependent life. Most of my family owns cars and they live not far from where I live. I have high standards and demand to live within walking distance of a lightrail line. However, I was carfree for years with one bus line. I moved five miles away and now have access to numerous bus and rail lines. It's all about choice.

1. I don't make a six figure salary
2. I don't live in a 400K condo or 1 million dollar home (although there are many close by)
3. I found that one can live very close to the well off with just a bicycle and transit
4. I never worked in a job that could not be reached by transit

Last edited by Dahon.Steve; 05-16-16 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 05-14-16, 12:19 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
I guess those of us like myself who are carfree should be considered lucky. Thanks for sharing with us your story from halfway around the world.

However, none of us are doom to a car dependent life. Most of my family owns cars and they live not far from where I live. I have high standards and demand to live within walking distance of a lightrail line. However, I was carfree for years with one bus line. I moved five miles away and now have access to numerous bus and rail lines. It's all about choice.

1. I don't make a six figure salary
2. I don't live in a 400K condo or 1 million dollar home (although there are many close by)
3. I found that one can live very close to the well off with just a bicycle and transit
4. I never worked in a job that could not be reached by transit
A bicycle and public transit will take you a long way.
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Old 05-14-16, 12:49 PM
  #59  
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Just the other day.... I heard a woman make a comment about the cost of maintaining her car. Then added that she could never go back to not having a car.

The woman is about two years off drugs. Without going into details... after many years of drug addiction she got clean and now has a car... and as she put it... "a life". She said that before (meaning while doing drugs) her life was merely about getting (and then doing) drugs. Now without the self imposed confinement of her addiction she is free to go places and do things.

I myself often use a bicycle to replace automobile transportation. And when using the car I often consolidate trips... say wait till Wednesday and take care of several tasks in one trip... driving less miles and using less fuel. But I have a very full, rich life. I don't think driving more would in my case make life fuller (but I have to wonder).

Do others [say]... give up golfing because they would have to drive to the course. Or pass up concerts because of transportation hassles. Or not attend a new store grand opening... even though it sounded like fun... but wasn't a needed activity. Does being car free sometimes turn into a form of self-flagellation.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 05-14-16 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 05-14-16, 12:59 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Just the other day.... I heard a woman make a comment about the cost of maintaining her car. Then added that she could never go back to not having a car.

The woman is about two years off drugs. Without going into details... after many years of drug addiction she got clean and now has a car... and as she put it... "a life". She said that before (meaning while doing drugs) her life was merely about getting (and then doing) drugs. Now without the self imposed confinement of her addiction she is free to go places and do things.

I myself often use a bicycle to replace automobile transportation. And when using the car I often consolidate trips... say wait till Wednesday and take care of several tasks in one trip... driving less miles and using less fuel. But I have a very full, rich life. I don't think driving more would in my case make life fuller (but I have to wonder).

Do others [say]... give up golfing because they would have to drive to the course. Or pass up concerts because of transportation hassles. Or not attend a new store grand opening... even though it sounded like fun... but wasn't a needed activity. Does being car free sometimes turn into a form of self-flagellation.

Help me out here: what is the connection between car-free living and drug addiction?

Last edited by Ekdog; 05-14-16 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 05-14-16, 02:14 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
Help me out here: what is the connection between car-free living and drug addition?
If a person is car-free for ideological reasons then there a lot of similarities between the two: They will both limit the persons employment opportunities, they will both limit travel opportunities and you're basically stuck in your neighbourhood, they will both limit enjoyment of life, they will both prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential, they will both prevent the person from advancing and making progress in life. Ideologies can be as harmful as addictions...
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Old 05-14-16, 02:45 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
If a person is car-free for ideological reasons then there a lot of similarities between the two: They will both limit the persons employment opportunities, they will both limit travel opportunities and you're basically stuck in your neighbourhood, they will both limit enjoyment of life, they will both prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential, they will both prevent the person from advancing and making progress in life. Ideologies can be as harmful as addictions...
Is concern about the environment ideological? I'd say it's scientific. And the huge number of men, women and children who are killed and maimed every years by cars? Some might want to do something about that for humanitarian or religious reasons.

Many of the car-free who post here are content with our lives, more so than we were when we relied on cars. We earn enough and don't want for more. You've failed at this. You were unable to thrive car-free and have found it necessary to revert to car ownership because you feel a need to acquire more consumer goods. Some might say that you are the one who suffers from an addiction.
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Old 05-14-16, 03:15 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
If a person is car-free for ideological reasons then there a lot of similarities between the two: They will both limit the persons employment opportunities, they will both limit travel opportunities and you're basically stuck in your neighbourhood, they will both limit enjoyment of life, they will both prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential, they will both prevent the person from advancing and making progress in life. Ideologies can be as harmful as addictions...
I don't have a goal of traveling as far as possible just for the sake of it. I like to be getting something out of the journey. Yes, I could go furthur in a car. But I would be in a damn car!

The world around me got bigger when I became car free. I got to know all kinds of neat places around me. You could say the I did that because I was "limited". I choose to think I had my eyes opened.

On tour nearly every morning is downright exciting in what the day will uncover as I warm up on my ride. Being escorted by a car so I can melt into the seat and sit in traffic and slowly die holds no appeal to me. You can have it.

Last edited by Walter S; 05-14-16 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 05-14-16, 03:30 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
Many of the car-free who post here are content with our lives, more so than we were when we relied on cars. We earn enough and don't want for more. You've failed at this. You were unable to thrive car-free and have found it necessary to revert to car ownership because you feel a need to acquire more consumer goods. Some might say that you are the one who suffers from an addiction.
I agree. But wolfchild can't just be a lover of cars and leave it at that. He needs to continue to spout absolute declarations that car free life sucks for everybody and that car free people inflict this pain on themselves to prove something. I find that pretty insulting.

I'm just fine with him not wanting to be car free. It's not for everybody. No questions asked. But don't keep on day after day insulting me and questioning my integrity.
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Old 05-14-16, 03:44 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
I agree. But wolfchild can't just be a lover of cars and leave it at that. He needs to continue to spout absolute declarations that car free life sucks for everybody and that car free people inflict this pain on themselves to prove something. I find that pretty insulting.

I'm just fine with him not wanting to be car free. It's not for everybody. No questions asked. But don't keep on day after day insulting me and questioning my integrity.
Agreed. The fact that some of us are happy with and enthusiastic about the car-free lifestyle really rubs him the wrong way--perhaps because he was unable to carry it off himself--and he feels the need to lash out at us. What an odd obsession!
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Old 05-15-16, 12:39 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I know, you're right....And none of the business CEO's and businessman who own oil companies would ever consider going car-free and walk, use 50 year old minibuses or bicycles as their daily transportation.
This thread is about practical tips and advice about being carlight/carfree. I'm hoping that we can have at least one thread that doesn't bring up personal insults and unpleasant political crap. Please stay within the topic. You are certainly free to start topics on the political ideas that you're interested in. But please leave them off this particular thread. (I'm talking to you as the main offender, but I hope a couple others get the message also.)

Meanwhile, I've seen some great posts here from others--particularly some newer members. Thank you all!!! I hope people will continue with both questions and answers about HOW they manage to become less reliant on cars.
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Old 05-15-16, 12:42 AM
  #67  
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As a gentle reminder of the topic, here is the OP:
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Please take the title of this thread literally. Tell us HOW you do it. How have you have adjusted your habits or developed new skills in order to be carfree, or at least less dependent on cars?

If you read this forum, I assume you have an interest in being less car-dependent. Pass along some of what you've learned to help others who share your interest in being carfree or less car-dependent,

(Obviously you don't have to be carfree to participate--just less dependent on cars than you once were.)
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Old 05-15-16, 12:58 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
The world around me got bigger when I became car free. I got to know all kinds of neat places around me. You could say the I did that because I was "limited". I choose to think I had my eyes opened.
I think this also speaks to HOW one can become more carfree. You need to get on your bike (or bus, or shank's mare) and explore your world. You find the scenic routes as well as the fast routes--which are usually different for a bike than for a car. Finding out which way to go makes carfree living not only more fun, but more practical.

I know at least three different routes to every place I go. I know routes that are sheltered for windy and cold days, and shady routes with lots of downhills for coasting on hot days. I know fast routes (often with a lot of car traffic) for when I'm in a hurry, and slow and easy routes for when I have more time.
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Old 05-15-16, 09:58 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
I don't have a goal of traveling as far as possible just for the sake of it.
Well, you certainly aren't Captain Cook:

“I had the ambition to not only go farther than man had gone before, but to go as far as it was possible to go.”


Of course, he was car-free too.

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Old 05-15-16, 10:04 AM
  #70  
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True. But I am more impressed with Captain Cook than with the miles people can rack up in a car by resting their foot on the floor and occasionally refueling.

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Old 05-15-16, 05:58 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
If a person is car-free for ideological reasons... limit the persons employment opportunities... limit travel opportunities... basically stuck in your neighbourhood... limit enjoyment of life... prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential... prevent the person from advancing and making progress in life...
Those are some broad generalizations you're making there! If anything, they indicate that you're missing the point: Being car-free is not the same as not owning/using/having access to a motor vehicle. I'm enjoying my cycling, and I'm happy that I've found the time, the will, and the strength to get back in the saddle after all these years. But that doesn't mean that I'm about to sell my not-quite-vintage-but-modern-classic Benz, on which I spend untold amounts of money to keep in tip-top shape over the years, for a song just to prove to myself or anyone else that I can be completely dependent on two wheels instead of four. In fact, I still very much enjoy driving my Benz 900 miles to Amman and back whenever I feel like going home and seeing my mom.

None of those who chose to go completely car-free would ever say that motor vehicles are the stuff of evil. Ambulances are motor vehicles. Fire engines are motor vehicles. The awesome-looking armored SUVs that SWAT teams use to fight terrorists and hostage takes are motor vehicles. The bus that moves you between the terminal and the airliner is a motor vehicle. Which is to say that motor vehicles - both as tools and as objects of affection - are a natural result of human progression and advancement, and have and will always have their place and purpose. Yes, I enjoy riding my bicycle for 20 kilometers in 40+ degree heat and sweating like a pig, but I will gladly use my nice, comfy, air-conditioned Benz to go to a business meeting or take my wife out to dinner in style.

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Old 05-15-16, 10:41 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Please take the title of this thread literally. Tell us HOW you do it. How have you have adjusted your habits or developed new skills in order to be carfree, or at least less dependent on cars?

If you read this forum, I assume you have an interest in being less car-dependent. Pass along some of what you've learned to help others who share your interest in being carfree or less car-dependent,

(Obviously you don't have to be carfree to participate--just less dependent on cars than you once were.)
I have never driven a car.
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Old 05-16-16, 06:09 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Just the other day.... I heard a woman make a comment about the cost of maintaining her car. Then added that she could never go back to not having a car.

The woman is about two years off drugs. Without going into details... after many years of drug addiction she got clean and now has a car... and as she put it... "a life". She said that before (meaning while doing drugs) her life was merely about getting (and then doing) drugs. Now without the self imposed confinement of her addiction she is free to go places and do things.
A car in the this case might actually be good for this woman. Her vehicle will suck all the money out of her making it impossible to buy drugs. So never say that I'm against car ownership.
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Old 05-16-16, 06:21 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
Help me out here: what is the connection between car-free living and drug addiction?
Yes.

Those who are motorized are able to buy drugs in larger quantities and sell them at greater distances. This limits them from being able to find high quality employment as they are constantly in and out of prison. Although they have motorized transportation, most are basically stuck in a poor neighborhoods since no one will hire a convict at high wages even if they have a car. It will limit their enjoyment of life and prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential.

Wait a second. I'm sounding like Wolfchild !!! LOL.
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Old 05-16-16, 09:24 PM
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Rob_E
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Do others [say]... give up golfing because they would have to drive to the course. Or pass up concerts because of transportation hassles. Or not attend a new store grand opening... even though it sounded like fun... but wasn't a needed activity. Does being car free sometimes turn into a form of self-flagellation.
It doesn't have to be "self-flagellation" to make different choices. There are plenty of things I could do with a car that are challenging without one. I don't consider it a sacrifice that I'm making. It's just a choice. When I drove regularly, I would sometimes go to concerts in the neighboring towns. Now I go to a lot more shows close by. I don't say, "I would love to go see Band A in City B, but I refuse to compromise on my car-free lifestyle." Instead I say, "Is it worth it to have a car just so I can get to City B once every few months?" If the answer is "no" then I guess I'm doing alright. Otherwise it's time to go car shopping. The reality is that even before I got rid of my car, I was finding that biking to and from shows was more fun. I have access to a car much of the time because my wife has no interest in being car-free. As a result, I could spend a lot more time at activities that are further away or would otherwise benefit from a car, but it's very rare that I drive my wife's car. Not because I'm punishing myself, but because I like my lifestyle. If my life would be improved by driving more, then I guess I'd have to get a car. But I've tried it both ways, and I find I enjoy life more when I rely on a car less. I also enjoy the freedom to do more. Yes, an event 20 miles away is a challenge. But to get a car just for that situation is to give up a lot. By not having a car, I can budget a lot more towards entertainment, or whatever I want, really. It's not a sacrifice to miss a show in City B. It's a choice to save my money and spend it at more events in the city where I live. I don't spend my days twiddling my thumbs and thinking about the placed I would drive if I had a car. I spend my days using that car money to see shows and movies and otherwise the explore the place where I live.
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