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Keto and cycling

Old 12-17-21, 09:32 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by kcjc View Post
I tried it three years ago as part of my preparation for my first double century and finished it on a plain re-fried beans burrito for lunch and 5-6 UCAN bars. I was using it to loss some weight after being injured but stalled after 5-6 months. Performance-wise, I never recover to pre-injury level and was 10-20% below. I quit after 18 months experimentation and went back to my low carb life style. My experiment falls in line with Kolie Moore's podcast.
https://www.empiricalcycling.com/pod...tmax-fallacies
https://www.empiricalcycling.com/pod...re-looking-for
It's difficult to understand what you're saying there. Tried what? What injury? What experimentation? What double century and over ow many hours?

I've ridden a local double in 12 hours elapsed time, a 19.8 mph average, when I was maybe 58. I burned about 4000 calories and ate over 2000 calories of mostly carbs. That's how you ride far and fast. You have to eat a lot of very easily digestible carbs. I especially never eat "lunch" or anything as indigestible as a bean burrito. I'll take a Hostess Fruit Pie any day over that. My usual rest stop routine on rides of any length is 10-15 minutes every 50 miles.

6 UCAN bars isn't even 500 calories. I eat that much on a 50 mile ride. No wonder your performance was poor! I don't gain weight and have no metabolic issues. I've been riding like this for over 25 years.
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Old 12-18-21, 01:29 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Tried what?
Keto, as the name of the post suggests
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
What injury?
Not really pertinent to how well the experiment went, but I was rear ended and plowed under by a minivan. While stuck under the van I was dragged a 20-30 feet under while the driver contemplated whether she can flee while being blocked by the car in front. Luckily by wheel got jammed under and behind the front axle and and wheel well, and I wasn't "ran over". I had severe abrasions on my back end, image a male baboon during mating season, and was off the bike for over four months during which I gain a few pounds also.
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
What experimentation?
Trying Keto for weight loss as I indicated.
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
What double century and over ow many hours?
Total time was 13:09:37 and my Garmin recorded 196 miles and change, as well as another 1k+ of elevation gain but this is from Strava (I corrected to check on the elevation discrepancy but it took more). I had a Garmin 510 and forgot to change the base map before the event.


Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I've ridden a local double in 12 hours elapsed time, a 19.8 mph average, when I was maybe 58. I burned about 4000 calories and ate over 2000 calories of mostly carbs. That's how you ride far and fast. You have to eat a lot of very easily digestible carbs. I especially never eat "lunch" or anything as indigestible as a bean burrito. I'll take a Hostess Fruit Pie any day over that. My usual rest stop routine on rides of any length is 10-15 minutes every 50 miles.

6 UCAN bars isn't even 500 calories. I eat that much on a 50 mile ride. No wonder your performance was poor! I don't gain weight and have no metabolic issues. I've been riding like this for over 25 years.
I was 50 at the time. Forgot to mention I had two scoops of UCAN before ride start for breakfast. I typically don't need to eat on rides less than 3-4 hours ride and stick with regular meal time (not specific to the Keto diet experiment). In preparation for the double I did most of my Saturday rides fasted and a few stretching to the 5 hour mark before breaking fast. Bean burrito was what the event served for lunch. I normal don't eat lunch on day long rides (centuries, >6 hours) on my own or with the club but will part take on organized events. I arrived at the lunch stop much later than expected and ate, adjusting to a much longer day than planned. I figured I was ~2,500 calories short for the day so it wasn't something new or that big of a deal. For most of my life, I only eat one or two (very small lunch) meals a day until last 16+ years married to a three meals a day person.

Like I mention above, I forgot to change the base map on my Garmin 510 and at time I joined folks that knew the route but was slower than my liking. Honestly that was a blessing since I wasn't as prepared as I needed to be. The last 30 minutes was not fun: my legs had that funny feeling twitching signaling cramping was around the corner and I getting very thirsty (was out of water for the last 1.5+ hours).

Glad Keto works for you but it's not for me. While on Keto, I was never able to regain my pre-injury FTP and was 40w down. After dropping Keto, my FTP slowly recovered.
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Old 12-20-21, 12:28 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by kcjc View Post
Keto, as the name of the post suggests
Not really pertinent to how well the experiment went, but I was rear ended and plowed under by a minivan. While stuck under the van I was dragged a 20-30 feet under while the driver contemplated whether she can flee while being blocked by the car in front. Luckily by wheel got jammed under and behind the front axle and and wheel well, and I wasn't "ran over". I had severe abrasions on my back end, image a male baboon during mating season, and was off the bike for over four months during which I gain a few pounds also.
Trying Keto for weight loss as I indicated.
Total time was 13:09:37 and my Garmin recorded 196 miles and change, as well as another 1k+ of elevation gain but this is from Strava (I corrected to check on the elevation discrepancy but it took more). I had a Garmin 510 and forgot to change the base map before the event.



I was 50 at the time. Forgot to mention I had two scoops of UCAN before ride start for breakfast. I typically don't need to eat on rides less than 3-4 hours ride and stick with regular meal time (not specific to the Keto diet experiment). In preparation for the double I did most of my Saturday rides fasted and a few stretching to the 5 hour mark before breaking fast. Bean burrito was what the event served for lunch. I normal don't eat lunch on day long rides (centuries, >6 hours) on my own or with the club but will part take on organized events. I arrived at the lunch stop much later than expected and ate, adjusting to a much longer day than planned. I figured I was ~2,500 calories short for the day so it wasn't something new or that big of a deal. For most of my life, I only eat one or two (very small lunch) meals a day until last 16+ years married to a three meals a day person.

Like I mention above, I forgot to change the base map on my Garmin 510 and at time I joined folks that knew the route but was slower than my liking. Honestly that was a blessing since I wasn't as prepared as I needed to be. The last 30 minutes was not fun: my legs had that funny feeling twitching signaling cramping was around the corner and I getting very thirsty (was out of water for the last 1.5+ hours).

Glad Keto works for you but it's not for me. While on Keto, I was never able to regain my pre-injury FTP and was 40w down. After dropping Keto, my FTP slowly recovered.
Cramping late in the ride is a common sign of not eating enough carbs. I've never been a keto person. I'm a high carb vegetarian. Can't imagine why you thought otherwise.
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Old 12-20-21, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Cramping late in the ride is a common sign of not eating enough carbs.
From what study? Every studies I have read haven't been able to make any connections or infer any. Maybe for you but for me it's a sign that I'm not ready or are trained for the demand.
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I've never been a keto person. I'm a high carb vegetarian. Can't imagine why you thought otherwise.
So you are here on this post to poo poo Keto or share your experience? Like I said it was an experiment. A double is a ultra endurance event for me and since there's no way of eating enough to fuel it, I tried one means of mitigating it that has worked with some ultra runners. It did not work for me but have worked for others. I just don't have the discipline or are invested in it to see it through. I'm an omnivore like evolution had made all of us.
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Old 12-20-21, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kcjc View Post
From what study? Every studies I have read haven't been able to make any connections or infer any. Maybe for you but for me it's a sign that I'm not ready or are trained for the demand.
So you are here on this post to poo poo Keto or share your experience? Like I said it was an experiment. A double is a ultra endurance event for me and since there's no way of eating enough to fuel it, I tried one means of mitigating it that has worked with some ultra runners. It did not work for me but have worked for others. I just don't have the discipline or are invested in it to see it through. I'm an omnivore like evolution had made all of us.
Skip to the 24:30 point:


This is the first I'd ever heard of the carb/cramp connection, but reviewing my records, I think they are correct. I bet if you'd sucked down say 300 calories high glycemic carbs when you first felt those twinges, they would have gone away or at least eased off. Typical undertraining cramps happen earlier in the ride, say on a steep high effort climb.

If I was in good condition and well-fueled I could normally see how I felt at about the 160 mile mark (usually good) and start turning up the heat, passing people like crazy and even sprinting the last hills. I haven't had that pleasure for the past couple Covid years. And at 76 it's not like that anymore, but I should still be able to get a good result just by eating right and not wasting time.
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Old 12-20-21, 02:02 PM
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Ok, it something that was pointed out in the Empirical Cycling post cast in the link I posted above. Seem to make sense on the end of a long days but cannot correlate as I get occasional tinkles also (mostly indoors) near the beginning of the ride, even on short easy days. FWIW, I had the tinkle on the first climb of the day (mild) on that double some 20 miles out and I was fully topped. That tinkle stayed with me for a good 20 minutes before a slightly different tinkle (location-wise, outer thigh vs calf) hit at the last 30 minutes of the ride. Most of my cramps occurs mid ride on the flats section with many many more feet of climbing to go but dissipates before I hit the final climb. They're mostly my Saturday hammerfest, trying to stay with the As before dropping back on those 4+ hours rides.
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Old 12-28-21, 08:04 AM
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I think an important point is missed in this and many other discussions about ketosis. Research has been done where they looked at amount of energy taken from carbs and from fat in cyclists before and after a few months of being in ketosis. Being in ketosis for some time will make your body burn more energy from fat than it did before, even after stopping the diet. This will lead to more available glycogen when you need it the most and will let you get by without having to eat as much sugar on the bike. No matter what else a keto diet will do this in itself is a win that I doubt any serious rider will leave on the table.
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Old 12-28-21, 09:13 AM
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But the pro riders and other high effort riders are having ketosis happen with out having to do a keto diet. That's an important part missed by those advocating a keto diet to those of us not needing a keto diet.
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Old 12-28-21, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dahoon View Post
I think an important point is missed in this and many other discussions about ketosis. Research has been done where they looked at amount of energy taken from carbs and from fat in cyclists before and after a few months of being in ketosis. Being in ketosis for some time will make your body burn more energy from fat than it did before, even after stopping the diet. This will lead to more available glycogen when you need it the most and will let you get by without having to eat as much sugar on the bike. No matter what else a keto diet will do this in itself is a win that I doubt any serious rider will leave on the table.
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
But the pro riders and other high effort riders are having ketosis happen with out having to do a keto diet. That's an important part missed by those advocating a keto diet to those of us not needing a keto diet.
Well, no. "Ketosis" means that your brain is running on ketones. Your whole body runs on ketones and it has to because there are zero available carbs and there haven't been any for some time. This is an evolutionary adaptation to postpone death in times of starvation. It's how people used to get through the winter or times with no game.

That said, it's totally unnecessary because high levels of fat adaptation can be realized simply by riding lots. Every high end carb-burning rider on here can ride for 4 hours without eating. That's fat burning. However, and it's a big however, focusing too much on fat burning limits the power available through carb burning. Since carb burning is what you have to do to go fast, most folks focus on carbs and let the fat burning take care of itself.

See posts 50, 56, and 60.
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Old 12-28-21, 12:32 PM
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I lost a lot (160lbs) of weight cycling on no carbs. IMHO it all depends on your goals. If you need to drop weight it's a good way to go, but know that you take a chance of bonking on a longer ride if you don't stop soon enough and give your body time to process some fat into energy. If pure top performance is your goal than carbs will be needed during a ride.
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Old 01-15-22, 02:25 PM
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I've done Keto last year for the first time, the worst part wasn't the food that I couldn't eat, but the food I was allowed to eat! (Cauliflower rice anyone?)

I'm thinking of taking it up again from February, but I'm worried if I might overestimate my endurance during a food delivery courier session. Last thing I want is to collapse or run low on energy (which is basically the whole point of Ketosis) whilst a hungry customer is waiting for his delicious food - the type of food I'm going to try to avoid so hard!
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Old 01-15-22, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post

Every high end carb-burning rider on here can ride for 4 hours without eating. That's fat burning. However, and it's a big however, focusing too much on fat burning limits the power available through carb burning. Since carb burning is what you have to do to go fast, most folks focus on carbs and let the fat burning take care of itself.

See posts 50, 56, and 60.
That is still missing the adaptation you get by being in ketosis for some time. Just riding will never make you as adapted as being in ketosis for say a month. I saw some research where they compared two riders amount of carbs and fat burned while riding before and after eating keto. Both became better at riding harder on fat, IE. less carbs were used at low and moderate levels compared to before which leaves more carbs left. You can ride your whole life and you'd never get those benefits.

I'll see if I can dig it up again.
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Old 01-15-22, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dahoon View Post
That is still missing the adaptation you get by being in ketosis for some time. Just riding will never make you as adapted as being in ketosis for say a month. I saw some research where they compared two riders amount of carbs and fat burned while riding before and after eating keto. Both became better at riding harder on fat, IE. less carbs were used at low and moderate levels compared to before which leaves more carbs left. You can ride your whole life and you'd never get those benefits.

I'll see if I can dig it up again.
No, not missing anything. Of course going keto improves fat burning. No one would argue otherwise, nor is that argument made above. The big However is that focusing on fat burning decreases one's carb burning adaptation. Thus if one's ride or event is going to involve hard efforts, the athlete who had combined fat and carb burning adaptations will ride away from the keto rider. TANSTAFL. I don't know of an event where the keto athletes will drop the carb burners. Even RAAM is a carb eating contest for instance.
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Old 01-16-22, 05:06 PM
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Keto doesn't fit well with cycling IMO, the necessity for carbs if one is going to ride hard and long is just too great. And apparently any carbs consumed for keto is really bad. Though if one is only basing their performance on their own past performances, then it's probably doable.

A Mediterranean or almost vegetarian or even a pure vegetarian diet works well and isn't affected by carbohydrate use while cycling. And the new craze I think... flexitarian. Which is someone that is mostly plant based but might eat any meat every now and then will also work well.
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Old 01-16-22, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Keto doesn't fit well with cycling IMO, the necessity for carbs if one is going to ride hard and long is just too great. And apparently any carbs consumed for keto is really bad. Though if one is only basing their performance on their own past performances, then it's probably doable.

A Mediterranean or almost vegetarian or even a pure vegetarian diet works well and isn't affected by carbohydrate use while cycling. And the new craze I think... flexitarian. Which is someone that is mostly plant based but might eat any meat every now and then will also work well.
Not true......at all. Where did you get that from?

Eating carbs on a long ride is essential.

A keto fat adapted kind of rider just needs fewer calories from carbs. I rarely needed more than 150 calories carbs per hour on a long, hard ride. Eating no carbs on a long hard ride is really stupid.
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Old 01-16-22, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Not true......at all. Where did you get that from?

Eating carbs on a long ride is essential.
I totally agree with that part. Though I drink mine. I put all my carbs in my bottles. No wrappers to fall out of my pockets to pollute the scenery. I seldom eat on rides of any length other than the organized rides where each stop does its own food theme it just seems impolite to ignore their offerings.

A keto fat adapted kind of rider just needs fewer calories from carbs. I rarely needed more than 150 calories carbs per hour on a long, hard ride. Eating no carbs on a long hard ride is really stupid.
Well I have noticed that the Keto diet has toned down a lot of it's more stringent requirements and actually looks more sensible. However most of the keto spouting people I've run into seem to think any carbs any time and any amount are bad. But that's from people I knew 15 years ago. Supposedly the first carb a person consumes ruins everything for a while.

I don't think there is anything special about keto diets that is going to make a person perform better over any other person. That is going to come from simply riding a lot.

If a person is interested in improving their riding performance, out of all the diets, keto will still be on the bottom of my list. However, if a person is okay with using carbs while they are riding, then I really don't care what diet one does while off the bike. My friends of 15 years ago would think you not doing keto if you intentionally consumed extra carbs over and above what you can't avoid.
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Old 01-16-22, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I totally agree with that part. Though I drink mine. I put all my carbs in my bottles. No wrappers to fall out of my pockets to pollute the scenery. I seldom eat on rides of any length other than the organized rides where each stop does its own food theme it just seems impolite to ignore their offerings.



Well I have noticed that the Keto diet has toned down a lot of it's more stringent requirements and actually looks more sensible. However most of the keto spouting people I've run into seem to think any carbs any time and any amount are bad. But that's from people I knew 15 years ago. Supposedly the first carb a person consumes ruins everything for a while.

I don't think there is anything special about keto diets that is going to make a person perform better over any other person. That is going to come from simply riding a lot.

If a person is interested in improving their riding performance, out of all the diets, keto will still be on the bottom of my list. However, if a person is okay with using carbs while they are riding, then I really don't care what diet one does while off the bike. My friends of 15 years ago would think you not doing keto if you intentionally consumed extra carbs over and above what you can't avoid.
When I followed a LCHF diet, I would not start eating until about an hour into the ride. I monitored my ketosis with a meter and eating on a long ride never threw me off. Eating too many carbs when you are not exercising will knock you out of ketosis and it can take 2-3 days to get back.

There are benefits to burning fat on long rides. First, you are totally bonk-proof. I don't consider a ride long until it gets close to 200 miles. Studies have shown that there is a limit to how many calories a person can absorb in 24 hours. Even Tour Riders have to work hard to keep glycogen stores topped up AND the ride huge miles in the early part of the season and therefore, they are highly fat adapted. Most of us do not ride enough to have that benefit nor is it important because rides are short and it is rare for most riders to do back to back to back long hard days. There are many approaches to enhance fat burning, keto is just one. The common argument against LCHF diets is a reduction in FTP. I am not so sure about that but it plays well
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Old 01-17-22, 11:38 AM
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The pro cyclist and other athletes are better at burning fat because of their constant training and energy demands of their sport. Not directly because of any particular diet. We'll increase our fat burning capability just from riding more often, faster and longer.

Bonking is really something that noobs do IMO. And many probably don't bonk in the sense that they can't ride one pedal more. They just can't keep up. After any of us get a little experience and fitter at riding we naturally learn we can't go all out all the time and figure out where to conserve and expend energy. Fat does fuel much of a ride. When we learn not to exceed that rate of fat burning during certain easy parts of the ride, we can replenish the glycogen that we might have just expended on a hard effort or a sprint to get to the front of the pack or just to keep a higher than normal speed.

At high efforts glycogen will be depleted faster than it can be replaced. Carb's help to replace glycogen quickly but never as quickly as one can burn it when going hard. As well the stomach/gut won't absorb carb's fast enough to ever replete lost muscle glycogen on a ride. So if one knows they are going to be going into very high efforts at various points along the ride, it'll probably be best to just regularly consume carb's from the start just to make certain the glycogen is as topped off as you can get it.

Though consuming those sugars in excess will probably just make many feel bad or queasy in the stomach and that bad feeling will impact performance. My stomach doesn't like more than about 200 - 220 Calories per hour. Maybe 250 if I push really hard. Typically I'm consuming 120 to 180 Calories in 50 minutes. (all my Calories are in my bottles. 24 to 25 oz bottle last me 50 minutes). Other cyclist will vary on how much sugar they can tolerate. There are studies that show how much the average person and average athlete can digest/absorb while cycling. Everyone should find their own limits when they don't have a professional trainer, coach, dietitian or other monitoring them.

Sometimes in the winter, I'll go out with just water. However I don't know that that has done anything for improving my fat burning. It was once touted that some pro's thought it helped, but turns out maybe it was the EPO or other stuff they were using.

Despite the strong feelings some have about increasing levels of their own bodies fat burning. It's not going to be an overall strategy for anything. Nor is diet type going to play more into increasing ones fat burning than simply getting out and riding more.
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Old 01-17-22, 11:54 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Though consuming those sugars in excess will probably just make many feel bad or queasy in the stomach and that bad feeling will impact performance. My stomach doesn't like more than about 200 - 220 Calories per hour. Maybe 250 if I push really hard. Typically I'm consuming 120 to 180 Calories in 50 minutes. (all my Calories are in my bottles. 24 to 25 oz bottle last me 50 minutes). Other cyclist will vary on how much sugar they can tolerate. There are studies that show how much the average person and average athlete can digest/absorb while cycling. Everyone should find their own limits when they don't have a professional trainer, coach, dietitian or other monitoring them.
Like most things, it's trainable to some extent. Serious athletes do pro-actively train their guts to tolerate more carbs/hour. For the average amateur 80g per hour is a typical limit, but pros are typically in the 120g+ region. This gets discussed quite often on the TrainerRoad podcast.
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Old 01-20-22, 04:13 PM
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RH Clark
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I bonked 2 years ago biking while fasting. I had no calories at all for about 36 hours before and I was 32 miles into my ride when it happened. I had to lay down for about 2 hours and I ate something. I was back to about 90% after 2 hours but I considered a hospital visit when it first happened. Yes, it was dumb and on purpose. I was trying to drive my body into starvation mode to reduce excess skin from weight loss. Running on empty a lot so to speak worked in that regard pretty well for me but I wouldn't think it would be the healthiest way do a ride. It was intended for weight loss rather than training gains. My opinion now would be different, and I would just train and accept the slower and likely healthier weight loss resulting from a good diet and good training plan.
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Old 01-22-22, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark View Post
I bonked 2 years ago biking while fasting. I had no calories at all for about 36 hours before and I was 32 miles into my ride when it happened. I had to lay down for about 2 hours and I ate something. I was back to about 90% after 2 hours but I considered a hospital visit when it first happened. Yes, it was dumb and on purpose. I was trying to drive my body into starvation mode to reduce excess skin from weight loss. Running on empty a lot so to speak worked in that regard pretty well for me but I wouldn't think it would be the healthiest way do a ride. It was intended for weight loss rather than training gains. My opinion now would be different, and I would just train and accept the slower and likely healthier weight loss resulting from a good diet and good training plan.
That is just nuts! Having listened to the guys on Trainer Road for the last year or so I'm sold on a sensible fuel-to-ride strategy alongside a core healthy diet. I'm a full-on eating machine during endurance events and find it very effective. But I don't need to lose any significant weight, so it's only a matter of maintenance. I might aim to drop 5 kg for a big mountain event, but that would simply involve slightly smaller portions within my core diet over several months. I hardly even notice it.
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Old 01-22-22, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
That is just nuts! Having listened to the guys on Trainer Road for the last year or so I'm sold on a sensible fuel-to-ride strategy alongside a core healthy diet. I'm a full-on eating machine during endurance events and find it very effective. But I don't need to lose any significant weight, so it's only a matter of maintenance. I might aim to drop 5 kg for a big mountain event, but that would simply involve slightly smaller portions within my core diet over several months. I hardly even notice it.
Yea, that's definitely a better way. You have to understand that I did know I was pushing things because of a unique situation. In 2 years at age 50-52 I had gone from 360lbs to 170lbs. I have done remarkably well with lose skin issues and had been intermittent fasting on a 20 off-4 on eating cycle for a good year. I rode a bike 360 days that second year and had many rides of 20-30 miles during that 20 hour fasting period. I just got in a hurry to see a 6 pack and pushed it too much at over 36 hours.
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Old 01-23-22, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark View Post
Yea, that's definitely a better way. You have to understand that I did know I was pushing things because of a unique situation. In 2 years at age 50-52 I had gone from 360lbs to 170lbs. I have done remarkably well with lose skin issues and had been intermittent fasting on a 20 off-4 on eating cycle for a good year. I rode a bike 360 days that second year and had many rides of 20-30 miles during that 20 hour fasting period. I just got in a hurry to see a 6 pack and pushed it too much at over 36 hours.

Oh for sure that is a whole different ball game. Congrats on losing so much weight and hopefully you can sustain your new baseline indefinitely without having to resort to drastic regimes in future. Losing 190 lbs is a bit different to losing 10 lbs!
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Old 01-25-22, 07:08 AM
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Results: The LCKD group experienced a significantly greater decrease in body mass (HC -0.8kg, LCKD -5.9kg; P=0.006, effect size (ES): 0.338) and percentage body fat percentage (HC -0.7%, LCKD -5.2%; P=0.008, ES: 0.346). Fasting serum beta-hydroxybutyrate (βHB) significantly increased from 0.1 at baseline to 0.5mmol/L in the LCKD group (P=0.011, ES: 0.403) in week 12. There was no significant change in performance of the 100km TT between groups (HC -1.13minĚs, LCKD -4.07minĚs, P=0.057, ES: 0.196). SS sprint peak power increased by 0.8 watts per kilogram bodyweight (w/kg) in the LCKD group, versus a -0.1w/kg reduction in the HC group (P=0.025, ES: 0.263). CPT peak power decreased by -0.7w/kg in the HC group, and increased by 1.4w/kg in the LCKD group (P=0.047, ES: 0.212). Fat oxidation in the LCKD group was significantly greater throughout the 100km TT
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29108901/

Conclusion: Limited and heterogeneous findings prohibit definitive conclusions regarding efficacy of the EAKD for performance benefit. When compared to a high carbohydrate diet, there are mixed findings for the effect of EAKD consumption on VO2 max and other performance outcomes. More randomized trials are needed to better understand the potentially nuanced effects of EAKD consumption on endurance performance
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32571422/
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Old 01-25-22, 08:38 PM
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That last link - you find what you're looking for. Pretty sure both groups were protein-starved with the HC worse off.

Let's say the the average athlete in the study weighed 150 lbs. We're told about body weight changes, but nothing about calories consumed, I'll guess 2500/day for a 150 lb. average rider. Using the published percentages, 4 kCal/g for carbs and protein and 9 kCal/g for fat, I get 70g of protein per day. Thus I calculate grams per pound of bodyweight = .47. Most nutritionists use .83 g/lb for mostly sedentary and up to 2.3 g/lb for hard-training athletes. I'll make a conservative estimate for protein requirements of 1 g/lb. of bodyweight. Balancing that out, I get a calorie breakdown of 64:24:12, which is my approximate breakdown. I weigh about 150 these days and consume about 150g of protein/day. I've seen 65:25:10 in the literature.

So basically the study is BS, which is really common with LC studies. They assume no one will look at the details.

Were the study true every serious rider would eat LC. In fact, none of them do except for short periods during training, and most don't even do that. It's like the guy who rode the TdF vegan one year and his performance didn't match what he did when he'd eaten with the team. What works right now is the best we know, right now. They cram the carbs down.

That took enough time, didn't look at the first link.
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