Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Strategies on getting good workout in slow(er) group rides?

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Strategies on getting good workout in slow(er) group rides?

Old 11-17-21, 01:03 PM
  #1  
Radish_legs
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Radish_legs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 954
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 45 Times in 21 Posts
Strategies on getting good workout in slow(er) group rides?

I've quit doing the local A ride because of dangerous antics. Now that I'm doing the B ride, I'm trying to figure out how to get a better workout. I'm doing things like riding 20 feet off the back, going to the side of the lane with the most wind, trying to be out of the draft completely. Stuff like that. But is there actually any tech or out-of-the-box ideas? I remember reading about a wheel or hub in the past that would actually slow you down, but it was super expensive. I've tried riding with a 20lb backpack, and that just hurt my neck. Roads are pretty flat, so wt doesn't make a huge difference. Asking here because you are the guys who would worry about such things.
Radish_legs is offline  
Old 11-17-21, 01:33 PM
  #2  
nomadmax 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 2,039
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 918 Post(s)
Liked 1,317 Times in 643 Posts
Allow the group to go ahead then do some bridging intervals. Same thing for going off the front to the next turn. Always put yourself in the wind and shelter those who might be struggling. But, what you should NEVER do is blow up a B pace ride and be the reason why they're suffering because they're where they belong, you are a guest.

If you're truly an A rider, do your own A ride and advertise it via the local cycling calendar or whatever method they use in your area. Maybe there are others the the A group who feel the same way you do. That said, unless we're talking about running traffic signals/signs and being scattered across the road in a lump in lieu of a paceline or over lapping wheel crashes, I'd probably ride with them. You can get some kind of fit making sure you're always in a good position within a group of fast riders.
__________________
nomadmax is offline  
Old 11-17-21, 02:11 PM
  #3  
brianmcg123
Senior Member
 
brianmcg123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: TN
Posts: 1,262
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Ride a mountain bike.
brianmcg123 is offline  
Likes For brianmcg123:
Old 11-17-21, 02:46 PM
  #4  
Radish_legs
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Radish_legs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 954
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 45 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
Allow the group to go ahead then do some bridging intervals. Same thing for going off the front to the next turn. Always put yourself in the wind and shelter those who might be struggling. But, what you should NEVER do is blow up a B pace ride and be the reason why they're suffering because they're where they belong, you are a guest.

If you're truly an A rider, do your own A ride and advertise it via the local cycling calendar or whatever method they use in your area. Maybe there are others the the A group who feel the same way you do. That said, unless we're talking about running traffic signals/signs and being scattered across the road in a lump in lieu of a paceline or over lapping wheel crashes, I'd probably ride with them. You can get some kind of fit making sure you're always in a good position within a group of fast riders.
The A group does run red lights. And doesn't stop for any rider left behind. They also do lots of dumb things at the front the impact the safety of the people further back, and they don't care about it one bit. And the fact that it's now dark the entire time makes it worse. And there have been recent crashes.

I don't ride on the front of the B ride, because yes, I could easily blow it up, and their paceline is too easy. I've thought about starting my own A ride, but I don't feel like going through the backlash that would cause. And yes, I have tried and failed to get the A ride to seriously tackle the safety issues.
Radish_legs is offline  
Old 11-17-21, 04:04 PM
  #5  
TMonk
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 12,177

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1342 Post(s)
Liked 1,334 Times in 717 Posts
dont do group rides if what you want is a controlled workout. they offer other advantages that are skills based and/or social, but you should be riding by yourself if you want to prioritize your workout.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Old 11-17-21, 04:16 PM
  #6  
TMonk
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 12,177

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1342 Post(s)
Liked 1,334 Times in 717 Posts
Also, start a new group! I'm also not a fan of running lights etc, doesn't earn us any more respect from motorists. Surely there are others in the group that are like-minded. The challenge will be keeping it civil and from turning into a ****show if other riders start catching on and your group grows.

Personally I don't do a ton of race-paced group rides any more for these sorts of reasons. Lots of long training rides with a small group, and of course lots of solo training outside or on Zwift. And racing of course! Im still racing.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Likes For TMonk:
Old 11-18-21, 04:22 AM
  #7  
rivers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked 79 Times in 51 Posts
Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
dont do group rides if what you want is a controlled workout. they offer other advantages that are skills based and/or social, but you should be riding by yourself if you want to prioritize your workout.
This. If I have a road based work-out to do, I do it on my own. I might do it with another friend if she has a similar workout that needs doing. But group rides are for the social aspect (for me and my friends anyway).
rivers is offline  
Likes For rivers:
Old 11-20-21, 10:14 AM
  #8  
carpediemracing 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,331

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Liked 131 Times in 74 Posts
When I rode with non-cyclists, or cyclists coming back from time off or injury, I'd ride my mountain bike. One racer, I think he's substantially stronger than me when he's fit, asked me if I wanted to ride with him. He just started riding after 10 years off, and asked me to ride my mountain bike. It was perfect. I could go as hard as I wanted and it was all good. At some point I told him I wanted to open it up and did an effort on a windswept beach road. He was on my wheel fine, and I got to do a really hard effort. That ride led me to change crank lengths as my mtb had 175s, my road bike 170s, and I went really fast into a cross headwind on the mtb compared to the road bike in a mostly tailwind.

I've done the same when riding with families on tandems, with the Missus and some recreational cycling friends, when riding when the Missus is running, etc.

My mtb is set up as a road bike, with a long, low position, road pedals (I have Keos on it). I switched out the 2" knobby tires but ironically haven't ridden on the road since, except to ride to our storage unit half a mile away. The 2" knobby tires work well on the road at max pressure, 60 or 80 psi.

The mtb has lower/easier gears, forcing a lot of pedaling when the speeds are higher (like on downhills, or faster flats). But otherwise it rides like a road bike

Long time ago at school an older kid (grad student looking) rolled up one day with big boots, jeans, jacket, etc, a book bag full of text books (it was gigantic), on a mtb, asked if he could join us on our ride. We hesitated but agreed, as we were going on a "harder" group ride (we were 3s and 4s). To our absolute shock he stayed with us for something like 45 minutes of short steep hills, attacks and chases, etc etc. Finally he cheerfully called out that he had to peel off and that it was fun. We were all a bit shell shocked that he stayed with us so easily. He came to our next team meeting and introduced himself. That's when I realized he was a Cat 1 / Pro from the area, he'd stopped riding because of back issues and was now starting school a bit late, Apparently that power / strength really doesn't go away. To give an example, he lapped the Junior field in the state RR on a 5km course. It looked like he was on a motorcycle, he flew by us so fast. He got 6th or something at Nationals that year. As a Senior raced briefly for Oldsmobile I think, and I think also for Mengoni (although every strong rider in the area seems to have ridden for Mengoni).
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 11-21-21, 06:23 PM
  #9  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,186

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1456 Post(s)
Liked 1,405 Times in 876 Posts
Tires. If you own a cyclocross bike, ride that instead. You're down 30w or more immediately over some 25mm GP5000's and modestly aero wheels. Add then the aero loss of riding in a more upright position versus your roadie. If you don't own one, mount up some durable crappy touring road tires on it. Think worse than Gators. That'll be a constant minus 10w to 15w versus some GP5000's. Always ride the hoods or bar tops pretty far sat up with some pretty loose kit.

To put in perspective how that can work, I flatted my roadie at the start of weeknight worlds. They left me, no stops for mechs. Limped the 3 or 4min to the car, grapped TT bike out of back of car and stowed the roadie. I caught and passed the B group and caught the dropped A group riders. I would suspect a similar effect to the opposite end by going with a knobbie equipped cross bike.

So that's my vote, handicap it by riding cross bike with knobbies. Like a worn mud tire setup.
burnthesheep is offline  
Likes For burnthesheep:
Old 11-21-21, 06:31 PM
  #10  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,863
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15625 Post(s)
Liked 3,095 Times in 2,304 Posts
More weight!!!



I had troubles getting the mill over 5 MPH. It was a long ride home!!!

I'm not sure of the dynamics of a trailer in a group ride. Make sure you approach with caution. Perhaps make sure you ride in the rear.
CliffordK is offline  
Likes For CliffordK:
Old 11-21-21, 11:47 PM
  #11  
carpediemracing 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,331

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Liked 131 Times in 74 Posts

Wide angle lens makes it look shorter in length and taller in height.

Bars are super narrow, as narrow as possible - levers moved all the way in, grips cut down to the width of my hands.




I guess no one has said boo when I rode the mountain bike, but when I rode it, it was definitely known to be a casual ride. So either with very experienced (but not fit) riders, or with not experienced riders. So the bars and such weren't an issue.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 11-21-21, 11:51 PM
  #12  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,387

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3336 Post(s)
Liked 329 Times in 229 Posts
Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
...I'm trying to figure out how to get a better workout. ...
Gym?
Sprints?
You do not state why you want a better workout. You can certainly get faster by riding slower.
Doge is offline  
Likes For Doge:
Old 11-25-21, 09:16 AM
  #13  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,387

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3336 Post(s)
Liked 329 Times in 229 Posts
I'd think you might want to get your workout another way and use the group ride for social / fat burning. The net result might even be better.
You can change the bike. You can try a lower/fixed gear and see about spinning. If you are trying to also get faster on your solo rides, that might not be the best.
As the parameters were you are using a group ride to workout, I'm answering based on your OP, which is hard as group rides and working out might be different depending on your ability relative to the ride.

Many racers do not use group rides for anything but social as they are too fast or too slow for race training. Many more use the group ride as the race and don't race (I'm not a fan, it is just the reality).

Last edited by Doge; 11-29-21 at 03:47 PM.
Doge is offline  
Old 11-28-21, 11:13 PM
  #14  
TheKillerPenguin
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,899

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 871 Post(s)
Liked 503 Times in 219 Posts
Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
dont do group rides if what you want is a controlled workout. they offer other advantages that are skills based and/or social, but you should be riding by yourself if you want to prioritize your workout.
Wisdom.
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Likes For TheKillerPenguin:
Old 12-23-21, 12:26 PM
  #15  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,664

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2862 Post(s)
Liked 2,840 Times in 1,307 Posts
For me the answer would be to do interval workouts solo, and then treat the B ride as a social/recovery ride. As others have said, you can handicap your equipment with higher rolling resistance tires, lower gearing, etc. The kid who won the local CX series would ride the local group ride over the summer on his cross bike with gravel tires. He said he had a road bike but liked his cross bike better, even if he was giving up watts.
caloso is offline  
Old 12-23-21, 12:35 PM
  #16  
Marylander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Frederick County, MD
Posts: 299
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked 90 Times in 67 Posts
I bought some rollers recently and was using the kenda kwick roller tires that came on the bike. The rides are supposed to be purely recovery/really low effort with the added benefits of working on my balance. I was only going about 7.5 mph at 85 watts. I swapped for some GP4000s and was going about 14 mph at the same 85 watts. These are terrible tires but might be good for your purpose.
Marylander is offline  
Old 12-23-21, 12:43 PM
  #17  
RandyK1977
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
The first century ride I ever did was with an older/slower group. I rode it on a cheap mongoose mountain bike with knotty off road tires. I got quite the workout and was thoroughly exhausted!
RandyK1977 is offline  
Old 12-23-21, 04:11 PM
  #18  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,387

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3336 Post(s)
Liked 329 Times in 229 Posts
Drink beer before the ride.
Doge is offline  
Likes For Doge:
Old 12-23-21, 04:56 PM
  #19  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 21,718

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3480 Post(s)
Liked 1,779 Times in 1,150 Posts
Can you attach panniers to your bike? The drag is noticeable to me even when they're empty!
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.