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Unrealistic Elevation on Vintage Rides

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Unrealistic Elevation on Vintage Rides

Old 02-15-23, 10:00 AM
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Unrealistic Elevation on Vintage Rides

I'm hoping to gather some opinions and ideas about the somewhat-drastic number of feet-of-climbing I am seeing (on Eroica, etc). What has got me concerned is that a lot of us have vintage bikes from the 1950's.., all the way back to the 1900's, and wish to ride them on a large, organized, supported group ride such as this, but the gear-inches of these machines simply does not permit it. For example, my Barnard, with low gear of 50Tx28T, is pushing close to 50 gear inches. 46Tx22T ( a British standard) is approaching 60. It just seems that while lower-geared bikes from the 70's-80's are suitable for almost 10,000 feet of climbing in 100 miles, there is a vast array of even-older bikes that must be left at home. I realize that this dilemma is regarding British bikes, mostly, with their early European counterparts having smaller gears, but even if you do find a Williams ring at 42T, unless you have a 28T rear, this kind of climbing will be a meat-grinder, especially for those of us who are getting older. I would just like to be able to see optional routes at vintage rides that have no more than 3,000 feet of climbing for 100 miles. Incidentally, this kind of ride would be more suitable for fixed-gear and single speed, as well. If you feel similarly, would you sign up for Eroica with a tall-geared bike if they offered such a ride option?
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Old 02-15-23, 10:37 AM
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I ride all my bikes. Steep terrain (and ever-advancing age) is what keeps me from from owning the bikes you mention. I live in an area where 12% grades are common and I would be hard pressed to find a 50 mile loop with less than 3,000 feet of climbing, much less 100 miles. My personal knowledge only extends as far as eroica California and Cino but I would imagine that many of the vintage ride locations are similarly constrained.
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Old 02-15-23, 11:25 AM
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Some rides, such as Eroica CA, have alternative and shorter routes suitable for the gearing you describe.
Otherwise, you can walk up the steeper bits,also known as a ‘two foot gear’.
That’s what even a lot of the hard men 100 years ago did. Check out the pics available on Google.
What some of us do is either obtain/build a bike with appropriate gearing or modify an existing bike’s gearing to give us more oomph up the hills.

I would not take a bike with 50-28 gearing to an event like Eroica or Cino, but that’s me. Right tool for the job, and all that.
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Old 02-15-23, 11:25 AM
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Hence the name, "Eroica".

Youth is fleeting. Most old men are no longer as fit as once they were. Fifty years of life and sitting behind a desk is not conducive to fitness. Old men cannot put out as much power and when they do it hurts more, recovery times are longer.

Do the best you can and enjoy it.

YOU are now "vintage", too.

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Old 02-15-23, 11:26 AM
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Check this route out. Totally doable even on a fixed gear.

https://eroica.cc/en/california/piedras-blancas-route

Guy
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Old 02-15-23, 04:40 PM
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It seems to me that most scenic areas where rides are held are hilly (the high relief is generally what makes them scenic), so it is difficult to concoct routes in those areas with less than about 5000 feet of climbing per 100 miles. In the area I live in, with few exceptions virtually all 100 mile rides involve 8000 to 10000 feet of climbing. This is why I gear all my former racing bikes lower than they were back when the young hard men were riding them. If I had bikes like the ones you are describing then I'd only ride them on short non-hilly rides such as the Eroica Piedras Blancas route described above.
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Old 02-15-23, 04:51 PM
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I have a triple and am not embarrassed to use it.
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Old 02-15-23, 06:01 PM
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One of the reasons I like older French bikes is that it's easy to modify the gearing using French equipment. You can run a Stronglight 49d crank, a Nervar 631, a stronglight 99, or a TA crank as a compact crank or as a triple. Even the short cage simplex rear derailleurs typically have a pretty decent chain wrap and can handle a 28 tooth if not a bit larger.

You could run French equipment on an older British bike. I plan on doing that in rebuilding a 1950s Claud Butler Jubilee.

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Old 02-15-23, 06:33 PM
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It’s pretty flat on my normal routes northwest of Houston. I would never call it scenic. A friend lives on the southwest side where it’s REALLY flat. Here’s one of his rides.



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Old 02-16-23, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig
One of the reasons I like older French bikes is that it's easy to modify the gearing using French equipment. You can run a Stronglight 49d crank, a Nervar 631, a stronglight 99, or a TA crank as a compact crank or as a triple. Even the short cage simplex rear derailleurs typically have a pretty decent chain wrap and can handle a 28 tooth if not a bit larger.

You could run French equipment on an older British bike. I plan on doing that in rebuilding a 1950s Claud Butler Jubilee.
That's mostly what I did when I was looking for a way to bring a nice vintage bike to a hilly ride. I went with a SunXCD copy of the T.A. Cyclotouriste crank and a SunTour Cyclone GT rear derailleur. I put it on the Hetchins, since it wasn't a bike that is known as a racing bike (but the clearances are pretty tight). The highly polished crank certainly fits in with the flashy/shiny nature of the bike!




Now I can ride the bike on the scenic hilly rides, such as this section of Fox Creek road, near Eureka, Missouri (not far from St. Louis)




Steve in Peoria (where some roads climbing out of the Illinois River valley have a 14% grade)
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Old 02-16-23, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
That's mostly what I did when I was looking for a way to bring a nice vintage bike to a hilly ride. I went with a SunXCD copy of the T.A. Cyclotouriste crank and a SunTour Cyclone GT rear derailleur. I put it on the Hetchins, since it wasn't a bike that is known as a racing bike (but the clearances are pretty tight). The highly polished crank certainly fits in with the flashy/shiny nature of the bike!

snip . . .


Now I can ride the bike on the scenic hilly rides, such as this section of Fox Creek road, near Eureka, Missouri (not far from St. Louis)




Steve in Peoria (where some roads climbing out of the Illinois River valley have a 14% grade)
Inspiring pic of the hills near where you live. People often don't realize how steep the hills can be in parts of the midwest. I like riding hills and wish there were more of them in central Iowa where I live but there are a few even here (10% grade is about the best I can find locally and they tend to be short).

Agree that some of the new equipment like the SunXCD crank can help solve gearing problems on an older bike and they do not look out of place. I have an IRD Defiant crank (46/30) that I plan on using on a vintage build.
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Old 02-16-23, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
I realize that this dilemma is regarding British bikes...
"Steel bikes and iron men." - Sheldon Brown. Snowdonia, Wales, 1959:

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Old 02-16-23, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
I would just like to be able to see optional routes at vintage rides that have no more than 3,000 feet of climbing for 100 miles.
The long routes at the Eroica's I have attended have all been pretty demanding courses with lots of climbing. They are intended to be challanging undertakings and thus heroic. I understand the desire to have a less demanding route thats not quite so short, but that isn't something that organizers seem to want to do.

I would recommend that you find a local century that you like and try to convince the organizers to include a vintage category. Maybe have a special rate or start time for those riders and then go have some fun. You might have to put in some effort to generate a buzz about it but it's not likely to happen if you don't do it. Waiting for someone else to put together a ride that you like may take a little longer.
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Old 02-16-23, 10:23 AM
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Sign up, bring two bikes, ride your unrealistic bike around town on Saturday and then Ride your Moser on Sunday. You can still walk up parts of Kiler and Cypress with the rest of us.
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Old 02-16-23, 10:27 AM
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I'll probably end up putting a Williams C34 crank on there, with rings as low as 32T, but it is mostly a matter of money for the replacement crank, chainring and new, vintage chain. This set-up might be used only once. Anyway, thanks for the recommendations. There are some options I hadn't given due-consideration. I still think there should be a Tall-Ring 100 at L'Eroica, but that might just be me tilting my bicycle into a windmill, somewhere.
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Old 02-16-23, 11:30 AM
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Notice that you do have 7 months to train for this year's CA edition. And this old man had no complaints about the course:
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Old 02-16-23, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
...this old man had no complaints about the course:
He is still The Man.


Berutti in Tuscany
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Old 02-16-23, 11:57 AM
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Yes, didin't Luciano do Eroica rides on a singlespeed? He was truly heroic.

I committed this atrocity for my first attempt at Eroica California.



The 26x30 combo gave me a 24" low gear, but I still had to use my "two feet" gear for a lot of the harder stuff.

I've found that we don't all age at the same rate. I was never particularly athletic, and now, at a mere 53 years of age, I find that even on modest climbs I am unable to keep up with the other riders I know from this forum, including some who are significantly older than me. Such is life. I accept it.

When I did my second Eroica California, I did the flat route out to the lighthouse and back on a bike with 52-42 x 14-26 gearing. I found it to be unsatisfying, at least in part because it was obvious that the organizers had dedicated most of their limited resources to the longer routes, but also because it didn't really fulfill the spirit of the ride. It wasn't heroic. So when I did my third Eroica California I went back to low gears and went into it knowing I'd be walking a lot. I was the penultimate person across the finish line, but I really enjoyed the day -- and I enjoy looking back on it much more.

tl;dr = The Eroica rides have a certain intent, and we shouldn't expect easier routes. I would love to find a large, long, flat ride dedicated to vintage bikes, but none of the Eroica variants should be that.
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Old 02-16-23, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad L
It’s pretty flat on my normal routes northwest of Houston…
Not according to TXDOT at 290 and Jones:



Beware of steep grades.
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Old 02-16-23, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
The Eroica rides have a certain intent, and we shouldn't expect easier routes. I would love to find a large, long, flat ride dedicated to vintage bikes, but none of the Eroica variants should be that.

That is a great story and informative in regards to gearing. This would be my first L'eroica. I disagree that a flatter course on a bike running 50-70 gear inches would be any easier, though.
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Old 02-16-23, 12:45 PM
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Heroic indeed. And probably living his dream life = truly self-actualizing.
But he should fire whoever is responsible for maintaining that bike of his.
....beyond patina. Bold for even heavy beausage
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Old 02-16-23, 01:43 PM
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I have entertained thoughts of doing the Cino ride on a SRAM 2-speed autoshifting rear hub. It's definitely less overall climbing than CA Eroica (and far better supported) though 9-mile hill on day 2 will challenge most riders. I know that @bironi and @northbend, among others, have done Cino on a fixed gear, and I'd be curious as to what gear they ran. But those are two very strong and heroic riders!
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Old 02-16-23, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
Heroic indeed. And probably living his dream life = truly self-actualizing.
But he should fire whoever is responsible for maintaining that bike of his.
....beyond patina. Bold for even heavy beausage
just in case there is any confusion, Luciano passed away in 2017 (unless the internet is lying to me).

Luciano Berruti: a Tribute to the Face of L'Eroica - Magazine - Ride Velo

On August 13th of this year, Luciano Berruti, died at the age of 73, doing what he enjoyed most in life – riding his bike. With his handlebar moustache, sparkling eyes, and cheeky grin, he will be best remembered as the ‘face’ of Eroica, the vintage cycling festival that began in Gaiole in Chianti but has now spread to all four corners of the globe, from Uruguay to Japan.
He made it look so easy!

Steve in Peoria
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Old 02-16-23, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
would you sign up for Eroica with a tall-geared bike if they offered such a ride option?
No. I'm looking for flatland. I don't enjoy climbing at all. My hill climbing is mostly limited to rides by the creek and overpasses.
That could be done fairly easily towards Paso Robles from Cambria direction if memory serves.
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Old 02-16-23, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad L
It’s pretty flat on my normal routes northwest of Houston. I would never call it scenic. A friend lives on the southwest side where it’s REALLY flat. Here’s one of his rides.
Originally Posted by bikemig
People often don't realize how steep the hills can be in parts of the midwest.
Indeed; 59 feet is, give or take, the climb up my driveway from the cabin to the road on my rural land. It's in the Driftless Area, Granted it's not the Ozarks or the "Little Smokies", but it's one of the more challenging (wrt elevation) areas to ride in the midwest.
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