genejockey 

And please note, I have, and love 5 bikes with DT shifters(3 friction, 2 indexed), but I have no illusions about the technology not being obsolete.

smd4

Your definition is still inaccurate: "a: No longer in use or no longer useful." DT shifters are in use world-wide and as such, by definition, are therefore "useful."

"b: of a kind or style no longer current." Not even sure what "current" means here. DT shifters are still "currently" being made by the thousands and "currently" used by the hundreds of thousands--if not millions.

smd4

No one doubts that. People have problems with the word you've chosen, which is inaccurate--at least for the time being.

genejockey 

Let's dispense with that nonsense, since I clearly pointed to definition b.

You know exactly what it means. Its a style that has largely been superceded in the marketplace. There are a bunch of old crocks like us who still use them, some even use them exclusively. But they're old technology that has been replaced and the vast majority of bicycles these days do not use them, because the newer technology has numerous advantages.

genejockey 

*********. It's perfectly accurate and descriptive.

Xavier65

Maybe one can say that friction shifters are going the way of rod & stirrup brakes?

No doubt there are still new bikes being sold with rod & stirrup brakes (in India?), but there's no need to use the dreaded 'obsolete' word.

SurferRosa

Did "the vast majority" of bikes on Earth ever use dt shifters?

With the popularity of 3-speed hubs and single speeds, I really doubt it.

What is the gearing for "the vast majority" of currently produced bikes on Earth? Single speed?

PeteHski

I qualified it in my first post and then reminded you about it in a later post. 3rd time lucky!

PeteHski

That isn’t the point. The point is that DT friction shifters were superseded decades ago on bikes that typically used them.

genejockey 

Forget it, Jake PeteHski, it's Chinatown Bike Forums

SurferRosa

Yeah, right.

"General Cycling Discussion" should be renamed "General Trolling" or "General S*** Show."

Harold74

I have historically used friction shifting on a lot of my bikes. I don't any longer, however, other than on my grocery getter. And that's mostly a function of a shift in the kind of riding that I do.

I currently do only road riding and I do it as structured training where I'm trying to carefully control some workout parameter such as heart rate. I do this primarily to manage my diabetes. When I'm riding like this, I find that:

1) the small bits of extra time and effort required to friction shift distract my focus away from where I want it: on my carefully structured training.

2) I need to shift a lot in order to have my gearing dialed in such that I'm controlling my parameter of interest well. Friction shifting tends to make me shift less because it's harder.

Maybe I just never got good enough at friction shifting, who knows. However, at this point in my life, I need to be in the execution phase of things more often than the learning phase.

I am still using downtube shifting, just indexed. And that's become a royal pain due to the poor availability of reasonably priced, high quality NOS shifters. I'd cut off a thumb for a set of NOS SL-7900.

rm -rf

Di2!
Electronic shifting is surprisingly reliable for me. (I've heard of a few local failures over the years, probably less likely than broken indexed shifter mechanisms.)

At 8.5 years and 38,000 miles, a ballpark estimate is that I've shifted 500,000 to 700,000 times. Mainly because it's so fast and easy to shift, even with a ring finger if my hand is out of position. The 500,000 estimate is 13 shifts per mile, about one every 400 feet of riding (or approx every 20 seconds) -- but I often shift more than one gear, or shift up for a few pedal strokes and shift back again.

With mechanical click buttons on the shifter and the derailleurs themselves, the system is still working perfectly.

I didn't expect this much reliability with physical click buttons on the hood levers, and tiny motors and miniature reduction gears in the derailleurs. I did replace the lithium battery when it started needing a recharge after 300 mile intervals.

smd4

Save your thumb. There are at least three sets on eBay as I write this.

Trakhak

If I were trying to do carefully controlled structured training, which suggests making shifting as effort-free as possible as a goal, I would pick up a pair of brake shifters like the Micronew set I bought recently. Cheap, and they work beautifully. You'd need your thumb, though---shifting from larger to smaller is accomplished with a thumb button for both front and rear.

Harold74

"Stupid" is a little strong for me but, yeah, I mostly agree with the sentiment. I run brifter back / friction front on one bike but I've yet to find a setup that doesn't nag at my obsession for symmetry:

1) Use a "dead" STI lever up front? Yuck.

2) Us a non-STI lever up front that, then, does not match the rear shifter. Yuck.

3) Use an STI rear lever and downtube front shifter? This is what I'm doing but most modern bikes don't have the mount for it.

4) Use an STI rear lever and an Genevalle friction front? I've tried this and probably like it second best of the available options.

5) 1X shifter set. Expensive just to satisfy my need for symmetry.

6) Bar ends. Symmetrical but I don't love the cable routing options.

What I'd really like is an STI-ish lever that is friction AND matches whatever I'm using for an indexed shifter on the rear.

Harold74

Three sets NOS, and under $200 CAD including shipping?

smd4

Oh. I thought you were desperate for a set of NOS SL-7900s to the point of being willing to sever a body part. Didn’t know there was a monetary restriction.

Never mind.

Harold74

Close I guess. It's just a lot to pay when all my bikes cost less than $1,500. Often much less.

Two, recent, SL-7900 adventures for me:

1) A dude, in my city, offered an NOS pair for $50. I bailed on work and still was second to show. I even, unethically, offered to pay 3X the asking price if the seller would screw over the other guy.

2) I thought I found four pair from a Louisiana bike shop on line. They wouldn't ship to Canada. So I made complex arrangements with a friend for expensive, two stage shipping. Turns out the store never had the shifters to begin with. They just hadn't updated their inventory database in a good long time.

I've been considering using Microshift but I'm not sure their shifters are meaningfully different from just using the 10s Shimano bar end shifters that I have as DT.

Harold74

Hah! Yeah, hyperbole. I vacillate between spending the big bucks or switching to 8s where you can get some new DT's.

smd4

You be surprised what can pop up on eBay for reasonable prices if you’re just patient.

phughes

I wouldn't want to use them for a touring bike, but there is no doubt they work well, and the lack of cables is wonderful Makes a clean looking bike. Maybe one day I will have it on a bike of mine. Right now I do not have any bikes they would be good for, but they truly do shift nicely. They are simply an incredible piece of bike technology.

What is so absurd about this discussion is that so many here cannot grasp the fact that there are different needs for different types of riding, and what works for them, may not be the best thing for someone else. Many touring bike riders like to keep things simple, mainly due to the fact simple is easier to repair in the middle of nowhere, and is also less likely to break when a heavy, fully loaded bike falls over. That doesn't make friction shifter superior to indexed. My touring bike had indexed bar end shifters. They worked, until they didn't, and I simply switched them to friction, then after riding it that way for a while, I bought nicer friction only shifters. I like them. They shift so easily.

Being able to shift from the hoods using brifters, yes I called them that, is wonderful. Especially for those who are riding "road bikes," and wanting to try to ride fast in order to beat their personal best, or actually race, or just have fun. You will find that most touring riders are not shifting all the time. We tend to get into a gear and ride. The friction shifter is nice for me because when I need to, I can go from the small cog to the large one in one fell swoop, instead of clicking through each cog.

I have actually entertained mounting my shifters on the down tube bosses. They are currently on the bar ends, and while I like them there, I grew up with down tube shifters, and four touring, they work well there, and are out of the way. They are hard to damage there.

People throw out words like obsolete and such, but friction shifters work, and are in current production. They are simple and some people like them. Some people now tour with indexed shifters on the hoods. They work too. Most of this comes down to personal preference, with some specific needs thrown in, but of course here on Bike Forums, there are many who cannot possibly believe someone would need or want something that isn't cutting edge, or god forbid something they themselves don't care for.

PeteHski

We might as well just merge it with C&V

Atlas Shrugged

I highly doubt that there are thousands of DT shifters being installed in new bikes anymore. It would begin with thousands of frames being built with DT shifter bosses which is questionable at best. Even Rivendell (retrogrouch central)doesn’t equip their frames with DT bosses.

As for the garages and basements full of DT friction-equipped bikes, just because they exist doesn’t mean they are used or ridden. Even the friction advocates on this site who boast of having dozens of bikes as part of their collection, never mentioning the actual distance put on these bikes. There may be millions of friction-shifting bikes remaining but most of them are treated like tchotchkes at best and forgotten relics at worst.

SurferRosa

Who trolls in C&V? No one. It's civilized.