TMonk

Cheers and a big +1

AnthonyE

I'm really not sure how this is ridiculous. There is no scenario that a hot waxed chain will be even close to as messy as a drip lube. Even the drip lubes that claim to dry really don't ever dry hard like hot melt.That means there is no way to keep contaminants out which always ends up creating a lapping paste that grinds away metal into a black sludge. You would literally need to completely clean the chain after every ride and reapply drip lube to prevent this. Even then, the contaminants that end up inside the chain during the ride are still grinding away metal. This also means there is absolutely no way that these drip lubes compete in terms of chain wear. There is sooo much data out there that supports this so I'm sure it's even debatable at this point. Not to mention hot melt wax is such a simple process after the initial chain clean has been done. This initial chain clean really should be done before traditional drip lubes to work their best anyway. Most people don't do this chain clean first before applying drip lubes therefore end up with so much road grit sticking to their chain. Then it becomes even more difficult to get a fully cleaned chain. I hate to say that this hot melt wax chain lube method just isn't a debate anymore.

seypat

Over 600 posts to the thread. I'd say it's still a debate.

SpedFast

And probably will be until chains become obsolete haha

Lombard

It's ridiculous. A process that takes more time, requires more space with more equipment and makes more of a mess. You can't tell me that there isn't a flaky mess on the floor after working the links on a hot waxed chain. All this for what? A chain that lasts no longer nor does it give you longer lube intervals, than oil based wet lubes. Granted the chain will stay cleaner once on the bike. IIRC, there was one guy in this thread that said he re-waxes when he hears his chain squeak from dryness. I re-lube every 500 miles, but I never, ever hear squeaking from dryness in between lube times. Furthermore, if you get caught in the rain or ride on wet roads, it's re-wax time. A lengthy waste of time process with no advantage in the real world.

scottfsmith

Here is some wax that dripped on the floor after my latest lube which I scraped off and put in water for a couple hours:




Only thing is, this was not hot wax it was Silca SS drip lube. This stuff dries hard like wax and stays hard, it is not water soluble.

Branko D

There's a wealth of evidence to the contrary. Now, sure, if someone doesn't want the faff of waxing, sure... but oil based wet lubes are dire. They're crap, and the new generation of wax based drip on lubes lead not only to longer lasting chains but lower drivetrain losses.
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The difference is akin to the performance difference between a bike with 105 and one upgraded to full Dura-ace and with the difference in drivetrain wear, the upgrade costs less money to run (as there are now fairly cheap lubes which perform excellently).

The only reason to use old oil lubes is sheer inertia.

Lombard

Really? Nobody in this thread had been able to claim their hox wax backs this "wealth of evidence". All I get is links to a bunch of charts from tests done by Molten Speedwax.
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WTF! Do you really think in a blind test (not literally of course), you could tell a difference in performance between a 105, Ultegra or Dura-Ace drivetrain? They all perform equally well. So then you are now admitting there is no difference in the performance between hot wax vs. oil based wet lubes? Yes, this is what I have been saying all along.

Are you talking about the fact that DA cassettes wear out faster because they are made of Ti? No lube can change that.

TMonk

It's cleanliness. You mentioned it earlier in your post. Also, some riders here are going pretty hard on the solvent cleanings and ultrasonic baths, but non of that is really necessary IME to enjoy the benefits of wax. It can be done lightly.

SoSmellyAir

Have you ever tried waxing?

Waxing does not take more time than applying wet lube roller by roller. But waxing takes more time than just spraying wet lube onto the chain while back pedaling. As for space, as someone with a 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, a 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit, and too many others to mention, surely you can spare a little space for a 2 qt. Crock Pot.

Yes, but wax flakes are easier to clean off the floor than lube, should one be so inclined.

Wax on a chain hardens unlike lube, which becomes a black slurry after only a single ride (at least for me). That slurry feels gritty between my fingers when I am wiping the chain, so logically the drive train would wear out sooner. ZFC testing has shown that to be the case. Maybe in the real world it makes no difference since we are replacing chains every few thousand miles anyway.

For some of us, especially those who like to tinker with their bikes, this is a big advantage.

The wax dries when it cools, so (1) it is dry from the get go, and (2) he must have better hearing than I do (which is not saying much) to be able to hear the difference in chain noise from the decrease in the thickness of the wax film as it wears down.

Noise is not necessarily correlated to friction if we are comparing dissimilar materials (wax vs. lube).

Yes, I agree that waxing is not suitable for frequent riding in a climate like Seattle's.

Again, have you tried waxing? I dare say that most waxers have tried lube, but I doubt that the converse is true.

cxwrench

It most certainly does take more time. You have to count the time spent melting the wax. And then the time the chain spends in the wax. Then taking it out and letting it harden and wiping it off. I'm not saying it's not fine for some people but do not blatantly lie about how much time it takes. I can wipe off, lube, and wipe off again with 'normal' chain lube in less than 30 seconds. I don't care what process you use, there is no way in hell you're getting it done in less than 30 seconds with wax. No. Way.

SoSmellyAir

I am not trying to mislead anyone; I should have been more clear. The actual duration is of course (as you point out) longer than drip lube. But during the time it takes the wax to melt and to get into the chain, one can go do something else.

Of course, you are a professional mechanic. For me, to drip one or two drops on every roller, wipe and repeat, takes 15 or 20 minutes. And still people on BF says my chain does not look clean.

Lombard

I don't do solvent cleanings nor ultrasonic baths. As I stated twice before in this thread, my chain goes on my bike when new and doesn't come off the bike until it's time to replace it.

15-20 minutes? You're kidding, right? No, I'm not a pro mechanic that can do this in 30 seconds, but the whole process takes me 5 minutes at most, usually less. One drop on each roller and wipe, done. No need to repeat.

SoSmellyAir

No, I am not kidding.

On the first cycle, I use two drops per roller (so that it serves as a bit of a rinse); on the next two cycles, one drop per roller. I was misled (maybe by someone here on BF?) that one can flush and wipe the chain with lube so well that the chain no longer leaves any mark on the rag (other than fresh lube) after a few cycles. I never achieved this and generally gave up after three cycles. Despite doing multiple cycles every few rides (totaling maybe 150 to 200 miles), wiping the chain even after a single ride of modest distance (between 25 and 35 miles) after a fresh lube application left a black line on the rag, darker than used motor oil. That was why I tried waxing in the first place.

tomato coupe

Seriously? You don't have to be a pro mechanic to lube a chain in a fraction of that time.

spelger

**** ***** *********** ****** wax *** ******* ****** ****** ***** **** ******** **** chain ***** ** **** ****** ****** ***** ******* drip **** ***** *********** ****** *** ******* ****** wax ****** ***** **** ******** **** ***** ** **** ****** ****** ***** ******* **** ***** *********** wax ****** *** ******* ****** ****** ***** **** ************ ***** *********** ****** *** ******* ****** ****** ***** wax **** ******** **** ***** ** **** ****** ****** ***** *******

what's this thread about?

SoSmellyAir

I was trying to lube and clean the chain.

seypat

I think it's about candlelight vs oil burning lamps.

Camilo

Head spinning. We should all get out more. This is a trivial issue no matter how great a difference anyone thinks it is in terms of effectiveness or simplicity. Choose your lube, ride your bike. Argue less about trivial matters on the internet.

Poll: Who has been persuaded that immersive waxing is "easier" and "better" than any other method of lubrication? Not me. I use a drip wax, clean the chain by wiping and maybe (maybe) OMS soaks once a year or so, and both chains and cassettes last longer than I care about. Others have different usage needing to clean more thoroughly, lube differently and their chains and cassettes probably last somewhat longer than I care about as well.

Camilo

Maybe you're dong the ShelBroCo method?
The ShelBroCo Bicycle Chain Cleaning System (sheldonbrown.com)

Lombard

This has to be a joke. The cheapest kit costs more than 2 brand new chains.

Not to mention I don't think even the hot wax cult members are going to disassemble their chains like that.

cxwrench

There's the issue...you're massively OCD. It's a bike chain. It's a wear component. It's meant to be ridden. Put some lube on it, wipe it off, and ride your bike. Jesus, it's just not that important. It literally takes me less than 10 seconds to back pedal the crank while dripping lube on the chain. Another 5-10 seconds of pedaling to spread the lube, then 5 more seconds to wipe off the excess. Any more time than that and you're seriously overthinking the whole deal.

phrantic09

Question for the waxers here who use SRAM flat top- do you re-use the power-link or do you use another type of QL?

Lombard

^^^This.^^^ But this is a bike forum. Chain lubing is religion on bike forums. You should see the debates on different oils, oil change intervals and methods on some of the car forums I belong to.

DaveSSS 

I reuse the link up to 5, maybe 6 times. I have a link that I use for setup only that's been used at least a dozen times. IRD makes a 5 time reusable link. KMC has one that they say is not reusable. I have two, but haven't used one yet. I suspect it will work many times. Just don't use a link beyond one chain's life. I take chains off about every 600 miles for cleaning, but I also have 10 chains being used in a rotation, so a new link for each of two bikes every year is a good idea.