datlas 

I wonder how that rides....I am guessing the BB is not very stiff. Any info??

PeteHski

That's the thing with carbon, the layup is pretty much infinitely adjustable to target specific stiffness/compliance in specific areas of the frame that would be very difficult or simply impossible to achieve with metal tubing. For the frame designer it both broadens the limits (at both ends of the stiffness spectrum) and the resolution (ability to both fine tune and localise stiffness characteristics). Coming from a cutting edge motorsport engineering background I've lived through the transition from metal fabrications to carbon composites and the latter opened up a whole new world. I think the bike industry has matured hugely in its use of carbon composite tech over the last decade. Carbon frame layups are now pretty sophisticated and similar to what I was seeing in motorsport a decade earlier.

Sy Reene

Here's a bit that I've come across. I'd love to try this bike

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/11/bike...aris-galibier/

Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - The Paris Galibier

datlas 

I would be interested in trying it, but I would also have very LOW expectations for anything positive compared to a regular frame.

PeteHski

As a mechanical engineer it just doesn't interest me. The offset seat-tube looks particularly hideous.

seypat

The design of the 2023 Trek Madone's not looking like an original design now. They just moved the junction up higher.

If you read the cyclingtips link in post 78 they talk about a connection to Condor Cycles. I actually have a 1972 Condor that the PO/OO bought from the shop mentioned in the article.

GhostRider62

The new Madone junction looks like a Litigator's wet......you know what.

Branko D

Yeah, the old Madone was a looker (especially some of the Project One with custom paint), this is... erm... yeah, not quite my cup of tea. It's not newest Bianchi super hideous, but not my cup of tea.

bblair

Someone mentioned magnesium and I read about that a while back. What's the deal?

FWIW, my Ti bike is by far the most comfortable. My Carbon the least. But their geometries are vastly different. Has anyone make frames out of various materials all the same specs to test it out? I would doubt it, since many manufacturers make one or another.

Trakhak

Many here own a half-dozen or more bikes made of various materials and with various geometries. I've owned a few bikes with identical geometries that have had aluminum, steel, or carbon frames. Two of mine were short-wheelbase criterium geometry road bikes (one aluminum, one steel). The two rode more or less identically with respect to handling and "comfort" (not a word I'd apply to either bike).

The bikes with more conventional road bike geometry all rode like each other, too. I guess I'm not particularly prone to confirmation bias in this area, because the bike that's been my favorite one to ride for the last 15 years or so is a Specialized Langster fixed-gear bike. It has road geometry and an aluminum frame and straight-blade aluminum fork, both with "oversized" tubing.

Hiro11

I've had good luck with most materials:

1. Aluminum: I suspect those who mention "aluminum harshness" have not ridden a modern aluminum bike. I have a brand new Allez Sprint custom build that is very smooth riding and fast as any race bike. Regardless, modern high volume/low pressure tubeless tires make a huge difference on any frame. Also, I have a fairly high end aluminum hardtail that I have absolutely abused for five years and it's still in great shape. Aluminum is plenty tough if engineered well.

2. Carbon: I have a 2019 carbon road bike that I have raced and ridden about 17k miles and it still looks essentially brand new. It also rides incredibly comfortably and fast. My cross bike is also carbon and it's been through lots of tough miles without issue. Carbon is hardly the brittle material some portray it as. I have beaten the crap out of a wide variety of carbon wheels without wheels. I suspect carbon is the least reliable in a crash, but I have no evidence one way or another. A bad crash will destroy any bike in my experience. Is carbon worth the huge price increase over aluminum? Maybe?

3. Steel frames are the toughest, most practical and most reliable in my experience. I own a Reynolds 631 adventure/gravel bike and that's the frame material to take into the wilderness. I also love that steel tolerates clamping forces well, take beautiful threads and isn't very reactive with dissimilar materials. I have never seen rust kill a steel frame. I used to race on steel back in the day, so I know it's not intrinsically "slow". I crashed that frame several times in low category races back in my teens and never had an issue. Steel is great stuff.

4. Titanium: great stuff. Doesn't rust, rides with a great springiness, lightweight, takes good threads, doesn't react to dissimilar materials, looks amazing with custom anodization. I still have two Ti bikes, a very mid-range racy road bike and a very fancy Ti/carbon road bike. Still... over the years I have had two titanium bikes from very reputable makers (Seven and Lynskey) fail at welds. I'm not sure how common this is, but in talking to mechanics I trust it's not uncommon for Ti bikes to have bad welds. In both cases, the manufacturer did the right thing... but I don't think Ti is quite the "forever bike" people portray it as. Barring that, Ti would probably be my favorite material for non-race bikes...

Bob Ross

I suspect you meant "does react" ...ask anyone who forgot to use copius amounts of grease or anti-seize on their alloy seatpost in a titanium frame.

LarrySellerz

S tier - titanium
A tier - Fancy steel and nice carbon
B tier - Light aluminum and cheap carbon
c tier - crappy steel and cheap alluminum

PeteHski

Titanium and high-end steel bikes are really a "lifestyle" choice, I'm guessing mostly attractive to older, traditional riders with a healthy budget and plenty of nostalgia.

More workhorse steel bikes are often the favoured weapon of choice for daily commuting, winter riding, touring etc.

Aluminium bikes are now the budget option for most uses, from full-on racing to daily pottering.

Carbon is both the competitive racer's choice and the choice of most reasonably affluent club riders and weekend warriors. A few of the older guys still ride steel/ti out of preference, but even most of the vets around here have discovered carbon or at least have both in their fleet.

ClydeClydeson

Ranking:

Steel
Aluminium
Carbon Fiber
Titaniuim
(4-way tie for 1st)

seypat

I wonder what percentage of cyclists that do the local racing scene have dedicated race bikes/setups? If they do have dedicated race setups, what are they using for those? Most of the crits you can watch on Youtube are flat as a pancake. You see some 1X setups, but most are 2X with top end groups and full range cassettes. I guess you race what you ride during the week. Maybe the old saying "race what you can afford to replace" no longer applies.

Koyote

Umm...sure. Okay.

amazinmets73

Any titanium? So an $1,100 Motobecane titanium frame is better than an $8,000 Colnago carbon?

Rogerogeroge

For sustainability bamboo wins.

Camilo

Please no.

sean.hwy

Carbon > everything else expect crash repair then steel wins out.

Camilo

The order is (spin the wheel and it will pick for you)
Carbon
Steel
Aluminum
Titanium
Steel
Aluminum
Titanium
Carbon
Aluminum
​​​​​​​Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
Aluminum
Carbon
Steel
Aluminum
Titanium
Steel
Aluminum
​​​​​​​Titanium
Carbon
Aluminum
​​​​​​​Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
​​​​​​​Aluminum
Carbon
Steel
Aluminum
Titanium
Steel
Aluminum
​​​​​​​Titanium
Carbon
Aluminum
​​​​​​​Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
​​​​​​​Aluminum

seypat

Touring bikes are still made from steel, correct? There must be a reason for those bikes to not be made from CF.

PeteHski

There are carbon touring bikes too. It's also a very conservative market and not focused on either aero or super low weight. So steel still makes a lot of sense for touring.

Branko D

Yes, the touring bike market is retrogrouch heaven. Half of the touring internet sphere considers a saddle design from the 1900 to be the pinnacle of comfort. I tried it, too. Meh.

If you intend to race the intercontinental, it's generally a CF bike with a Tailfin CF rack.