The KHS ZH2B Aero Comp just arrived!
11-24-22, 08:21 PM
#76
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I got this ‘97 Aero Comp frame a few months back. I am going to put it together this weekend.
I put a rear wheel in there and holy crap! This frame is tight. The 25mm Conti GP4000 jammed against the chain stay.
this frame is definitely not friendly to 25mm tires. I found a Bontrager tire that is labeled 25c but measures 24 (vs 26 for the GP4000), and it just barely clears:
The Bontrager tire is ridiculously hard though. Im not a fan of tires narrower than 25, but I guess I’m going to have to try some 23mm open tubular type ‘supple’ tires. I’ve never messed with a frame with this little clearance.
My original plan was to run a pair of Hed wheels on this frame, but those Hed wheels are 4mm wider than the Araya rims on there now. So there is no guarantee that 23mm tires will even clear once I mount them on the wider Hed wheel!!
Plan B would be to run tubulars…
The aluminum front fork though, has tons of clearance unlike the unicrown fork on James’ Aero Comp.
Tons of space around the 25mm GP4000
To be cont’d
I put a rear wheel in there and holy crap! This frame is tight. The 25mm Conti GP4000 jammed against the chain stay.
this frame is definitely not friendly to 25mm tires. I found a Bontrager tire that is labeled 25c but measures 24 (vs 26 for the GP4000), and it just barely clears:
The Bontrager tire is ridiculously hard though. Im not a fan of tires narrower than 25, but I guess I’m going to have to try some 23mm open tubular type ‘supple’ tires. I’ve never messed with a frame with this little clearance.
My original plan was to run a pair of Hed wheels on this frame, but those Hed wheels are 4mm wider than the Araya rims on there now. So there is no guarantee that 23mm tires will even clear once I mount them on the wider Hed wheel!!
Plan B would be to run tubulars…
The aluminum front fork though, has tons of clearance unlike the unicrown fork on James’ Aero Comp.
Tons of space around the 25mm GP4000
To be cont’d
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11-25-22, 08:48 PM
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I put the bike together today:
This is one long frame. I had to move the seat all the way forward to get to KOPS position. And the 80mm stem just barely gets to the bar covering the hub position.
Plan is to put these Hed wheels on there:
that would be the H part of the ZHBB team.
While I’m waiting for the tube to arrive I slapped the skinny Bontrager tire on the front Hed rim:
This same tire measured 24mm on the skinny 13mm Araya rim. Now it measures 25.5mm on the 17-18mm Hed. Significantly wider. This is not good news. Even a 23 mm tire might become too wide once mounted on this Hed rim. Mmm … what to do.
This is one long frame. I had to move the seat all the way forward to get to KOPS position. And the 80mm stem just barely gets to the bar covering the hub position.
Plan is to put these Hed wheels on there:
that would be the H part of the ZHBB team.
While I’m waiting for the tube to arrive I slapped the skinny Bontrager tire on the front Hed rim:
This same tire measured 24mm on the skinny 13mm Araya rim. Now it measures 25.5mm on the 17-18mm Hed. Significantly wider. This is not good news. Even a 23 mm tire might become too wide once mounted on this Hed rim. Mmm … what to do.
11-25-22, 10:29 PM
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icemilkcoffee Sorry to see you having fit issues on the tires. I am really trying to remember a lot of the engineering decisions made on the frame specs and I think the original drawings used an aero bladed chain stain which would've increased tire width clearance. I believe True Temper was out of the stay tubes when we began production and the standard shape tube was substituted instead. At the time it was not deemed a huge issue because back then everyone was still using 21mm and 23mm tires on a 13mm Sun Aero Rim so they fit perfectly. Its a Shame about the HED wheels being too wide since as you mentioned Steve was heavily involved in the design of this bike. The ZH2 (H Squared) B are Zinn, Hed, Hsieh and Boone Lennon. I had developed a friendship with Steve Hed over the years there and he and I had many fun talks about Aero, the ZH2B project and his wheels. KHS was one of the first distributors for all HED products and a lot of the sales on his wheels were referred to me because I understood them so well. I believe the original tire spec was Panaracer Comp or Stradius Comp and on the Sun Rims had decent clearance on the stays. A 21 mm wide Tubular tire seems like it could definitely open up the clearance as well! It's great to see your build turning out so well!
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11-25-22, 11:32 PM
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icemilkcoffee Sorry to see you having fit issues on the tires. I am really trying to remember a lot of the engineering decisions made on the frame specs and I think the original drawings used an aero bladed chain stain which would've increased tire width clearance. I believe True Temper was out of the stay tubes when we began production and the standard shape tube was substituted instead. At the time it was not deemed a huge issue because back then everyone was still using 21mm and 23mm tires on a 13mm Sun Aero Rim so they fit perfectly. Its a Shame about the HED wheels being too wide since as you mentioned Steve was heavily involved in the design of this bike. The ZH2 (H Squared) B are Zinn, Hed, Hsieh and Boone Lennon. I had developed a friendship with Steve Hed over the years there and he and I had many fun talks about Aero, the ZH2B project and his wheels. KHS was one of the first distributors for all HED products and a lot of the sales on his wheels were referred to me because I understood them so well. I believe the original tire spec was Panaracer Comp or Stradius Comp and on the Sun Rims had decent clearance on the stays. A 21 mm wide Tubular tire seems like it could definitely open up the clearance as well! It's great to see your build turning out so well!
And the clearances are tight everywhere. The 12T small cog rubs slightly on the chainstay/dropout when taking the wheel out. I am guessing 13T or larger small cog would be a no-go. Anyways, upon doing more research I think the Veloflex Corsa 23mm is probably what I'll go with. Seems like that tire is 'true-to-size' and narrower than the Vittoria Corsa. The other alternative would be running tubulars. I have a set of Hed tubular rims as well, but they need new hubs.Your friend Steve Hed was a real innovator in the bike industry. Too bad he passed at a relatively young age. RIP.
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11-26-22, 07:55 AM
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^ Hopefully the tire plan works. I too default to Veloflex tires when clearances are tight as they do seem to come in true to size or even smaller.
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11-26-22, 09:06 AM
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very nice KHS, thanks for sharing
11-26-22, 01:23 PM
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Sorry about that little cable routing issue! I wasnt aware of that and I am sure because I was testing factory built prototypes I had no reason to mess with it. Had I known back then I would have requested a spec change to make that more mechanic friendly! I was digging around on Google to see if I could find the original spec charts. I am too lazy atm to go digging around boxes in my garage of all of my old bike paperwork. I did find this one link showing one of the original catalog pages with 8spd Ultegra most likely had a 11-23 cassette. Which wouldve cleared the stay though still close! The OP in his wisdom went with Kenda 20mm tire on his custom build so eliminated the tire width issue. https://www.pedalroom.com/bike/1994-...omp-zh2b-11010
In hindsight working with Steve Hed and getting to him on a personal level was truly one of the many gifts I got during my long career with KHS. Someone I always looked forward to speaking with. Every trade show I made sure to say hello and get caught up. He always had a new project, something, newer, better, faster and lighter then before. He never stopped innovating - it was just in his DNA! One of the most important bits of knowledge I learned from him was understanding aerodynamic efficiency at yaw. He always laughed at his competitors always bragging about aerodynamic specs on their wheels and it was always the spec at straight on headwind. Where as in real world use real aero efficiency comes at various yaw as the amount of time you spend on a bike the majority of if will be in cross angle winds. So there is a real give and take in the super tall aero bladed tubes in a frame being great straight on verses at various yaw where they are inefficent. The ZH2B frames were the culmination of massive research in the windtunnel to optimize efficiency with all of these aero saving parameters in mind.
In hindsight working with Steve Hed and getting to him on a personal level was truly one of the many gifts I got during my long career with KHS. Someone I always looked forward to speaking with. Every trade show I made sure to say hello and get caught up. He always had a new project, something, newer, better, faster and lighter then before. He never stopped innovating - it was just in his DNA! One of the most important bits of knowledge I learned from him was understanding aerodynamic efficiency at yaw. He always laughed at his competitors always bragging about aerodynamic specs on their wheels and it was always the spec at straight on headwind. Where as in real world use real aero efficiency comes at various yaw as the amount of time you spend on a bike the majority of if will be in cross angle winds. So there is a real give and take in the super tall aero bladed tubes in a frame being great straight on verses at various yaw where they are inefficent. The ZH2B frames were the culmination of massive research in the windtunnel to optimize efficiency with all of these aero saving parameters in mind.
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01-02-23, 12:40 PM
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Good news on my KHS. I got a Vittoria Corsa 23mm tire on the wide Hed wheel and it fits with no rubbing! Almost 2 hairs worth of clearance:
it was a big struggle to mount the wheel though- you have to deflate the tire to mount the wheel but the ‘open tubular’ Vittoria tire gets very wide when it’s deflated. Took a lot of wrangling.
I still have to order a matching Vittoria tire for the front but in 25mm width. Anyways I waxed the chain and took a few snaps before the rain came:
it was a big struggle to mount the wheel though- you have to deflate the tire to mount the wheel but the ‘open tubular’ Vittoria tire gets very wide when it’s deflated. Took a lot of wrangling.
I still have to order a matching Vittoria tire for the front but in 25mm width. Anyways I waxed the chain and took a few snaps before the rain came:
01-02-23, 02:01 PM
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Glad you were able to find a rim tire combo that works for you! Love the HED wheels as your choice. I expect this bike will be very quick for you once you are able to get it out and up to speed! I have to admit you are making me want to search for one of these for my own project now! Thanks for sharing!
01-02-23, 04:35 PM
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Jazzy:
This KHS showed up on our local CL:
What model is this one? It has the round (instead of ovalized) seat tube like JameDak's bike, but it also has the seat stays going above the top tube, similar to my ZH2B frames. It does look like there is more tire clearance than on my bike though.
This KHS showed up on our local CL:
What model is this one? It has the round (instead of ovalized) seat tube like JameDak's bike, but it also has the seat stays going above the top tube, similar to my ZH2B frames. It does look like there is more tire clearance than on my bike though.
07-16-23, 11:18 PM
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Do-over time for my yellow Aero Comp. Last time after I put the bike together, there was still a little bit of rubbing on the left chain stay. The rear wheel was also a bit wobbly. So off to Mr Rabbit for truing. As it turns out every single alloy nipple was corroded to the spoke and every spoke had to be cut and the whole wheel rebuilt. No wonder the PO sold me the wheels for $100. Once the wheel was done, the rubbing ...... got worse. String test showed that the frame rear triangle was off. There was no obvious sign of trauma and it was not clear how that rear triangle got out of alignment. A real mystery. Anyways I took the frame to our local legend frame builder Dale Saso who was able to straighten it out.
The whole groupset also got a do-over. The Claris R2030 internal cable brifters, although grey, was too dark a grey to match the grey of the 600 tri-color groupset. It looked almost black- and I am allergic to black bike parts. Also the tri-color groupset didn't quite fit the 'aero' theme I was going for. So instead I put an Ultegra 6500 groupset on there with 105-5700 brifters shifting a 10 speed cassette. The original 80mm stem was still a hair too long. I could go to a 70mm stem, but short quill stems suffer from the rise > run visual problem. I know I needed a 90 degree stem to reduce the rise. I lucked out and scored a 70mm Nitto Dynamic II stem, which I reamed out to 26mm.
So here it is : Take Two
The Xlab Aero bottle is at least a decade too new to be period correct, but it sure looks like it belongs!
The 105 ST5700 was the only silver internal cable brifter Shimano ever made. I lucked out and scored this NOS set:
While I was stripping down the rear wheel to be rebuilt I found out that it wasn't just a regular Hed wheel. It was a Flamme Rouge special edition wheel with scandium rim, lighter carbon weave, hubs with carbon centers, higher grade bearings and titanium skewers (missing from my wheels). Yay!
I bought these Titanium HED skewers separately from the wheel. Not cheap at $40 but necessary to complete the Flamme Rouge wheelset:
I was able to finally put some mileage on this bike. At first I thought the weird frame would take some getting used to and the aluminum fork would be harsh. But as it turns out, the ride is not too harsh with carbon bars and 25mm tire in the front (and 23mm open tubular tire in the back). The frame just disappeared from under me.
What is really a different experience is the Hed wheels. The carbon fairing is like a drum that magnifies every sound- spokes pinging, bearing noise, braking noise all magnified. When you get up to speed, you hear a whirring sound. When stopped I can feel the ground vibrations through my hands because of how stiff these wheels are. These wheels feel alive.
The whole groupset also got a do-over. The Claris R2030 internal cable brifters, although grey, was too dark a grey to match the grey of the 600 tri-color groupset. It looked almost black- and I am allergic to black bike parts. Also the tri-color groupset didn't quite fit the 'aero' theme I was going for. So instead I put an Ultegra 6500 groupset on there with 105-5700 brifters shifting a 10 speed cassette. The original 80mm stem was still a hair too long. I could go to a 70mm stem, but short quill stems suffer from the rise > run visual problem. I know I needed a 90 degree stem to reduce the rise. I lucked out and scored a 70mm Nitto Dynamic II stem, which I reamed out to 26mm.
So here it is : Take Two
The Xlab Aero bottle is at least a decade too new to be period correct, but it sure looks like it belongs!
The 105 ST5700 was the only silver internal cable brifter Shimano ever made. I lucked out and scored this NOS set:
While I was stripping down the rear wheel to be rebuilt I found out that it wasn't just a regular Hed wheel. It was a Flamme Rouge special edition wheel with scandium rim, lighter carbon weave, hubs with carbon centers, higher grade bearings and titanium skewers (missing from my wheels). Yay!
I bought these Titanium HED skewers separately from the wheel. Not cheap at $40 but necessary to complete the Flamme Rouge wheelset:
I was able to finally put some mileage on this bike. At first I thought the weird frame would take some getting used to and the aluminum fork would be harsh. But as it turns out, the ride is not too harsh with carbon bars and 25mm tire in the front (and 23mm open tubular tire in the back). The frame just disappeared from under me.
What is really a different experience is the Hed wheels. The carbon fairing is like a drum that magnifies every sound- spokes pinging, bearing noise, braking noise all magnified. When you get up to speed, you hear a whirring sound. When stopped I can feel the ground vibrations through my hands because of how stiff these wheels are. These wheels feel alive.
07-17-23, 12:33 AM
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Do-over time for my yellow Aero Comp. Last time after I put the bike together, there was still a little bit of rubbing on the left chain stay. The rear wheel was also a bit wobbly. So off to Mr Rabbit for truing. As it turns out every single alloy nipple was corroded to the spoke and every spoke had to be cut and the whole wheel rebuilt. No wonder the PO sold me the wheels for $100. Once the wheel was done, the rubbing ...... got worse. String test showed that the frame rear triangle was off. There was no obvious sign of trauma and it was not clear how that rear triangle got out of alignment. A real mystery. Anyways I took the frame to our local legend frame builder Dale Saso who was able to straighten it out.
The whole groupset also got a do-over. The Claris R2030 internal cable brifters, although grey, was too dark a grey to match the grey of the 600 tri-color groupset. It looked almost black- and I am allergic to black bike parts. Also the tri-color groupset didn't quite fit the 'aero' theme I was going for. So instead I put an Ultegra 6500 groupset on there with 105-5700 brifters shifting a 10 speed cassette. The original 80mm stem was still a hair too long. I could go to a 70mm stem, but short quill stems suffer from the rise > run visual problem. I know I needed a 90 degree stem to reduce the rise. I lucked out and scored a 70mm Nitto Dynamic II stem, which I reamed out to 26mm.
So here it is : Take Two
The Xlab Aero bottle is at least a decade too new to be period correct, but it sure looks like it belongs!
The 105 ST5700 was the only silver internal cable brifter Shimano ever made. I lucked out and scored this NOS set:
While I was stripping down the rear wheel to be rebuilt I found out that it wasn't just a regular Hed wheel. It was a Flamme Rouge special edition wheel with scandium rim, lighter carbon weave, hubs with carbon centers, higher grade bearings and titanium skewers (missing from my wheels). Yay!
I bought these Titanium HED skewers separately from the wheel. Not cheap at $40 but necessary to complete the Flamme Rouge wheelset:
I was able to finally put some mileage on this bike. At first I thought the weird frame would take some getting used to and the aluminum fork would be harsh. But as it turns out, the ride is not too harsh with carbon bars and 25mm tire in the front (and 23mm open tubular tire in the back). The frame just disappeared from under me.
What is really a different experience is the Hed wheels. The carbon fairing is like a drum that magnifies every sound- spokes pinging, bearing noise, braking noise all magnified. When you get up to speed, you hear a whirring sound. When stopped I can feel the ground vibrations through my hands because of how stiff these wheels are. These wheels feel alive.
The whole groupset also got a do-over. The Claris R2030 internal cable brifters, although grey, was too dark a grey to match the grey of the 600 tri-color groupset. It looked almost black- and I am allergic to black bike parts. Also the tri-color groupset didn't quite fit the 'aero' theme I was going for. So instead I put an Ultegra 6500 groupset on there with 105-5700 brifters shifting a 10 speed cassette. The original 80mm stem was still a hair too long. I could go to a 70mm stem, but short quill stems suffer from the rise > run visual problem. I know I needed a 90 degree stem to reduce the rise. I lucked out and scored a 70mm Nitto Dynamic II stem, which I reamed out to 26mm.
So here it is : Take Two
The Xlab Aero bottle is at least a decade too new to be period correct, but it sure looks like it belongs!
The 105 ST5700 was the only silver internal cable brifter Shimano ever made. I lucked out and scored this NOS set:
While I was stripping down the rear wheel to be rebuilt I found out that it wasn't just a regular Hed wheel. It was a Flamme Rouge special edition wheel with scandium rim, lighter carbon weave, hubs with carbon centers, higher grade bearings and titanium skewers (missing from my wheels). Yay!
I bought these Titanium HED skewers separately from the wheel. Not cheap at $40 but necessary to complete the Flamme Rouge wheelset:
I was able to finally put some mileage on this bike. At first I thought the weird frame would take some getting used to and the aluminum fork would be harsh. But as it turns out, the ride is not too harsh with carbon bars and 25mm tire in the front (and 23mm open tubular tire in the back). The frame just disappeared from under me.
What is really a different experience is the Hed wheels. The carbon fairing is like a drum that magnifies every sound- spokes pinging, bearing noise, braking noise all magnified. When you get up to speed, you hear a whirring sound. When stopped I can feel the ground vibrations through my hands because of how stiff these wheels are. These wheels feel alive.
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07-17-23, 02:25 AM
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Do-over time for my yellow Aero Comp. Last time after I put the bike together, there was still a little bit of rubbing on the left chain stay. The rear wheel was also a bit wobbly. So off to Mr Rabbit for truing. As it turns out every single alloy nipple was corroded to the spoke and every spoke had to be cut and the whole wheel rebuilt. No wonder the PO sold me the wheels for $100. Once the wheel was done, the rubbing ...... got worse. String test showed that the frame rear triangle was off. There was no obvious sign of trauma and it was not clear how that rear triangle got out of alignment. A real mystery. Anyways I took the frame to our local legend frame builder Dale Saso who was able to straighten it out.
The whole groupset also got a do-over. The Claris R2030 internal cable brifters, although grey, was too dark a grey to match the grey of the 600 tri-color groupset. It looked almost black- and I am allergic to black bike parts. Also the tri-color groupset didn't quite fit the 'aero' theme I was going for. So instead I put an Ultegra 6500 groupset on there with 105-5700 brifters shifting a 10 speed cassette. The original 80mm stem was still a hair too long. I could go to a 70mm stem, but short quill stems suffer from the rise > run visual problem. I know I needed a 90 degree stem to reduce the rise. I lucked out and scored a 70mm Nitto Dynamic II stem, which I reamed out to 26mm.
So here it is : Take Two
The Xlab Aero bottle is at least a decade too new to be period correct, but it sure looks like it belongs!
The 105 ST5700 was the only silver internal cable brifter Shimano ever made. I lucked out and scored this NOS set:
While I was stripping down the rear wheel to be rebuilt I found out that it wasn't just a regular Hed wheel. It was a Flamme Rouge special edition wheel with scandium rim, lighter carbon weave, hubs with carbon centers, higher grade bearings and titanium skewers (missing from my wheels). Yay!
I bought these Titanium HED skewers separately from the wheel. Not cheap at $40 but necessary to complete the Flamme Rouge wheelset:
I was able to finally put some mileage on this bike. At first I thought the weird frame would take some getting used to and the aluminum fork would be harsh. But as it turns out, the ride is not too harsh with carbon bars and 25mm tire in the front (and 23mm open tubular tire in the back). The frame just disappeared from under me.
What is really a different experience is the Hed wheels. The carbon fairing is like a drum that magnifies every sound- spokes pinging, bearing noise, braking noise all magnified. When you get up to speed, you hear a whirring sound. When stopped I can feel the ground vibrations through my hands because of how stiff these wheels are. These wheels feel alive.
The whole groupset also got a do-over. The Claris R2030 internal cable brifters, although grey, was too dark a grey to match the grey of the 600 tri-color groupset. It looked almost black- and I am allergic to black bike parts. Also the tri-color groupset didn't quite fit the 'aero' theme I was going for. So instead I put an Ultegra 6500 groupset on there with 105-5700 brifters shifting a 10 speed cassette. The original 80mm stem was still a hair too long. I could go to a 70mm stem, but short quill stems suffer from the rise > run visual problem. I know I needed a 90 degree stem to reduce the rise. I lucked out and scored a 70mm Nitto Dynamic II stem, which I reamed out to 26mm.
So here it is : Take Two
The Xlab Aero bottle is at least a decade too new to be period correct, but it sure looks like it belongs!
The 105 ST5700 was the only silver internal cable brifter Shimano ever made. I lucked out and scored this NOS set:
While I was stripping down the rear wheel to be rebuilt I found out that it wasn't just a regular Hed wheel. It was a Flamme Rouge special edition wheel with scandium rim, lighter carbon weave, hubs with carbon centers, higher grade bearings and titanium skewers (missing from my wheels). Yay!
I bought these Titanium HED skewers separately from the wheel. Not cheap at $40 but necessary to complete the Flamme Rouge wheelset:
I was able to finally put some mileage on this bike. At first I thought the weird frame would take some getting used to and the aluminum fork would be harsh. But as it turns out, the ride is not too harsh with carbon bars and 25mm tire in the front (and 23mm open tubular tire in the back). The frame just disappeared from under me.
What is really a different experience is the Hed wheels. The carbon fairing is like a drum that magnifies every sound- spokes pinging, bearing noise, braking noise all magnified. When you get up to speed, you hear a whirring sound. When stopped I can feel the ground vibrations through my hands because of how stiff these wheels are. These wheels feel alive.
Congrats on the build
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07-17-23, 06:37 AM
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Wow, that is smokin' hot now!!!! 
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07-17-23, 11:46 AM
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If rear wheel clearance is too limiting for your use, you might consider dimpling the chainstays for a bit more tire clearance so you can easily run 25mm. Dimpling chainstays would be fairly easy and safe to do IF the chainstays are constructed from one of true-tempers CrMo non-heattreated tubes such as AVR or Versus. Search through framebuilders section for dimple instructions. True temper also made a number of heat treated tubesets such as supertherm, OXII and VHT (versus heat treated), those would be much more difficult to dimple without damage due to higher strength and more brittle metal.
