Radish_legs

Around here the weekday C crits are 4s and 5s racing together. I'll find it pretty easy to collect points in these crits, I think. My placings so far have been 2, 9 (breakaway up the road), 2, and 2 in one crit, and 5th in the other. I was 8th in my first B crit (breakaway up the road).

The first issue is whether it is okay to pursue an upgrade to 3 just using local weekday crits. Some people tell me this is wrong or questionable. Other people say it is okay.

The second issue is whether it is okay to collect upgrade points in the C race, going against the 4s. While permitted and legal, some are telling me it is BS and one should not go that route. That one should only collect points in the B race, going against the 4s and 3s. Obviously it is easier to collect points in the C race.

I have found that people gripe when a strong rider's category seems too low. But the racer's response is "I'm collecting points so I can upgrade, and pretty soon I won't be in this race anymore."

Friends have told me "don't be in a rush to get to Cat 3. Take your time as a Cat 4." Specifically it gives me the chance to compete as a 35+ 4/5 and probably be pretty competitive. This could be my goal for next year. Remain a Cat 4 and compete in that category as a probably pretty strong rider in that category.

Because I have pretty limited goals, and for now only want to focus on local crits, the advantage of being a cat 3 means that I can enter the A race downtown. That's it. I can already do the A races in the burbs as a 4.

What if I stay as a 4, don't race any C races, collect few-ish points, but just do B and A races. And then do the occasional Cat 4 road race or master's 35+ 4/5 race. Is that sandbagging?

Sorry for the verbosity, but I guess it boils down to this. When is the best timing to quit doing C races? Should I care about points from C races? Should I be racing against 4s to become a 3 (faster)? Or should I race against 3s as a 4 to be come a 3 (slower, if ever)?

miyata man

What if you just get on with it and quit doing an under attended local series to justify upgraditis?

Bit harsh, but there it is plainly laid out.

topflightpro

Again, Read the Rulebook. This will help you understand the point system and actually how to earn points.

And in most places, 4s cannot do A races, so they do C and B races that are available to them.

Radish_legs

what would you define as "under attended"? I live in one of the largest cities in the US. I've participated in the two most prominent largest weekday crits in the metro area.

I know the weekend regional races and crits are more competitive and more prestigious. And you have to do those to get to 2. I know that.

TheKillerPenguin

Why uh, don't you shoot your upgrade coordinator an email and ask em for an opinion on this?

globecanvas

It's usually more fun to do challenging races with other racers who know what they are doing. I think new racers, or any racers, should do the most challenging races available to them as long as they are not so far over their head that it's pointless or dangerous. So, do that, and upgrade when you get enough points so you can increase the challenge.

"Politics" are really a non issue. It's a hobby, get the most out of it. One thing I can say with confidence is that you will increase your enjoyment of bike racing by obsessing less about upgrade points or what other people think of you.

PepeM

Do whatever you want. If it is allowed, why do you care what people here think? Serously, do you over think everything in your life this much?

globecanvas

Also, speaking as a mod, with regard to caring what people think of you, there is a practical limit to how many threads you can start on basically the same topic.

Radish_legs

I thought going to a 3 was a much different topic than going to a 4 from 5.

I realize what the rules are, that you can upgrade via C races.

But since it seems to be controversial with people I talk to locally, I wanted to know what people here thought.

What is allowed, and what is old-school proper seem to be 2 different things.

And yes I did read some prior threads about upgrading to 3, but they did not address this specific point.

wktmeow

I mean, I do, but I usually keep it to myself...

Radish_legs

Feel free to delete the thread. I take it that the stuff I am hearing locally is a bunch of BS and the proper response is that I can do what I want and do the races I feel and if someone doesn't like how I or anyone else got to be a 3, they can go cry in the bushes.

globecanvas

No need to delete the thread, just pointing out that it's pretty much on topic with all your other threads, namely "me and my upgrades."

Say, have you heard about the cohort of NYC former pros and olympians who do cat 3 races for walking around money? Know how much they care about what people think of them?

miyata man

You can't expect an endless well of serious responses on the internet. This place has a long history, not all of it kindly disposed, of newer racers being pushed back out into the cold world as a final answer to growing co-dependence. Maybe you need to go have some fun in the 41 or just learn to manage down time away from the rush better. The laundry list of crazy things done to maintain this high level of attention by previous posters doesn't need a new addition. Relax.

oespinoza83

When I raced as a 4, my results only mattered compared to other 4s. Meaning, if I was racing a 4/5 crit, I was only scored as if all of the 5s did not exist (for final ranking and field size to determine points payout). Now that I am a 3, the same applies. If I do a 2/3 or 3/4 crit, I am only ranked against the 3s in both races. This shows now that USAC's website has your "Upgrade Status" shown now with the number of points you have/need.

As far as the whole local crit thing, who cares? I know plenty of guys here in Houston that only race the local weekly crits and maybe the local road races (within 1-hr of town). Racers travel/don't travel for various reasons. Everyone has different schedules, lives, goals, budgets, etc. and being a "God at the local crit week-in-week-out" doesn't mean, or even matter, to others around the state/country. What I am trying to say is, I have never heard anyone say "yea so-and-so is a beast cat 1, but never races outside of Houston so he isn't good".

TL;DR. Race your bike and stop worrying so much. Races come and go. Racers come and go. Teams come and go. Enjoy the effin' ride and quit being in a huge rush to get it all in so fast.

hack

at the end of the day the only person that will care about your upgrade is you ... and maybe only a little bit

Radish_legs

I read the rules as suggested by someone. If you are a 4 and do a 3/4 race, your absolute place counts. And you get "Credit" for all the 3s and 4s you beat. You get credit for both. However if you are in a 4/5 as a 4, they only place you against the other 4s.

Maybe this is a new-ish rule, I don't know. Maybe it was different back in your day.

globecanvas

Yeah, maybe you just misstated, but that's not correct .. upgrade points for a 3 in a 2/3 race count all of the 2 and 3 racers in the field size. Take your absolute place counting everyone, then take the field size counting only racers of your category or better (not just of your category).

topflightpro

Yeah, you're not reading this correct.

Your place in the race is the same regardless of the number of 3s, 4s or 5s in the field. The field size for upgrade points is determined by number of equal or above category racers.

So, if you are a 4 in a 3/4 race, all 3s and 4s count for the field size. If you are a 4 in a 4/5 race, only the 4s count for field size.

The rulebook specifies more points are awarded for larger fields.

Let's say you are a cat 4 in a 4/5 road race with 55 people. You are the only only cat 4 in the race. The other 54 are 5s. If you finish third, your finish is 3rd. It is not 1st among cat 4s, it is just 3rd. And because there are fewer than 5 cat 4s in the race, you get ZERO upgrade points.

Let's change those numbers a bit. Let's say the field is still 55 riders, but 15 cat 4s and 40 cat 5s. If you finish 6th overall, and are the 3rd cat 4. In this case, your field size for upgrade points would be 15, but your finish is still 6th. Not 3rd. You would therefore get 1 upgrade point.

globecanvas

If you are a 4 in a 4/5 race, it's possible to finish something like 10th out of 5 for upgrade points purposes.

miyata man

Whoa whoa whoa, I came here for politics not 'rithmetic.

denvertrout

Once in a race no-one is going to care how you got to that point. I upgraded early from 4>3 solely so that I could race in my favorite weekday race. The 4-5 race was easy, and I wanted to race with the p123 group. Much faster, small gaps disappeared immediately, and I was not nearly as successful, but boy do I have fun. So go for it. At the same time, sounds like you are new to racing, so gaining the skill/experience needed to survive/be competitive, is probably worth the time staying where you are.

topflightpro

Yeah, he's done like 6 races total.

Radish_legs

The other thing that I have heard about my local area is that if you only do local weekday crits, even with the requisite number of points, you will likely be denied upgrade to 3 until you get points at weekend and travel races.

Matt2.8NJ

Where do you live?

Radish_legs

Dallas area.