Princess_Allez

Thanks. I did double check to make sure that the lever did not need a manual adjustment. Both levers are at their max preset distance from the bar.
I was also thinking this might be the case- that hyrdo bike disc operates differently from what I'm familiar with (cars, motorcycles). I thought that the brake force might be overpowered for bicycle use and therefore added travel was engineered into the lever so as to not lock the brakes so easily. I did the brake pumping from multiple angles, like you mentioned, and the braking got slightly better.

Sy Reene

From the prior thread I referenced, it's perhaps worth reviewing this post where SkepticalOne provided some snaps of open/closed travel for what he felt was a correctly operating hydro lever: https://www.bikeforums.net/21221861-post4.html

Princess_Allez

thanks for that. Referencing the photos, my brakes need to be bled again. My levers have more travel than what's shown in the photos.

cxwrench

I would try this because it's easy and takes very little time:

Put the bike on the rear wheel like you're doing the mother of all wheelies. Pump both brake levers a bunch...this should get any air that's in the line and/or near the levers to move 'up' into the levers. The levers should go closer to the bars if there is indeed air in the system.

Put the bike in a work stand and 'burp' the levers by opening their bleed ports and putting the cup/funnel on them. Make sure there is some mineral oil in the cup. You should see bubbles come out as you pump the lever. This is part of the Shimano bleed process and seems to work very well when the brakes feel good but not great.

WhyFi

If you want to know if your brakes are operating properly, get on the bike and see how they work. Wanting to do a second bleed, before ever actually testing the functionality, because of how they look compared to another person's larger levers, with unique positioning and on different bars, just doesn't make sense.

63rickert

No bike shop lets a brakeless bike out the door if they want to stay in business. Or if they care about your life. Or the life of the person you may hit. Stay away from this LBS.

From this distance cannot tell if the problem is excessive travel or perception of excessive travel. Does not matter. If the brakes do work it is the job of the LBS to walk you through brake operation slowly and patiently. No excuses on this one.

I don’t own discs and don’t plan to. Bicycle discs have been around fully fifty years and there is a reason it took so long to get it mostly right. On these forums everyone knows everything about discs and is very certain they are as simple as falling out of bed. I have been on multiple group rides where a disc brake bike gets a flat tire and everybody stands around waiting to see who knows what to do. This would include rides with shop owners and employed mechanics present. Preferred procedure is phone an Uber. Apparently no bikeforums readers on those rides. My first guess would be your shop simply does not know what to do. Were it all so simple as presented in this thread first mechanic in line would grab the bike and fix it just to avoid arguing with a customer. Conflict with a customer on the shop floor is bad business.

Princess_Allez

I took the bike out for a quick 10 mile ride to get a feel for it and wow...disc brakes are the truth. They are everything I desired in terms of stopping power and feel. The brake drag that I mentioned earlier was not perceptible. I did a second bleed before riding the bike, just in case it would make things better; it did not. The engagement and lever travel remained the same after the second bleed. The lever travel still seems excessive to me. It nearly touches the handlebar when coming to a complete stop. I tested the brakes from 34mph to a complete stop. I guess I will just ride the bike as is, until the pads wear enough to touch the bar, then I'll address the issue. Who knows, maybe the braking will get better with time, once some air bubbles make their way to the top.

Koyote

I am baffled by this statement. How is it any different to fix a flat tire on a bike with disc brakes vs a bike with rim brakes?

DDzBike

Wow, my LBS, and I'm certain they are not unique on this, not only give 1 year free but also recommend that you bring the bike back after a 'break in' period for readjustment should cables stretch etc...

Find a new shop to do business with in the future

Princess_Allez

definitely. I have three to choose from, locally. This experience makes it two.

WhyFi

That doesn't happen - the caliper pistons adjust automatically, maintaining the same gap between the pads and rotors. There's a fluid reservoir in the levers and more fluid enters the line from there.

Sy Reene

Sorry, but I'm having trouble imagining that the design intent is that you might have crush the fingers that might be wrapped under the hood if you need to make a harder fast stop.

WhyFi

Sorry, but I'm having trouble imagining how you'd crush fingers under the lever when you'd be using those fingers to squeeze the lever in the first place. Do you have rows of fingers like sharks have rows of teeth?

His travel sounds a little excessive but not necessarily problematic.

Sy Reene

My usual is 2 fingers on the brake, 2 fingers under the hood when riding on the hoods. I don't use all 4 fingers to brake. I guess I lift weights.

Maybe someone with some disc brakes could actually tell the OP how far the levers should really travel. Get out a ruler or something. Or maybe the travel distance that it should be is in the extensive Shimano manual. This whole things has been turned into some sorta rocket science that it really shouldn't be.

Random google photo. Can you brake with your hands like this?

WhyFi

If your hands are on the hoods, the pinky and ring finger under the lever are going to be above the tight spot/small shift lever protrusion. This is the tightest of the four levers at my disposal and it's not an issue.




You do realize that people have different bars with different curvatures and that people mount their levers higher/lower than others?

Or maybe you should stick to taking firm positions on matters in which you have experience? You seem to love getting in to it on matters in which you have none.

Princess_Allez

good to know; even better.
this is how I grasp the brake, when I'm on the hoods.

edit: I only grasp like this when in the drops. I always use all four fingers covering the lever when I'm on the hoods. It must be a habit from running poorly bled motorcycle brakes

GlennR

What if you have winter gloves on?

Sy Reene

The only firm position I have is that the brake lever/shifter paddle, should not hit your fingers, like it did with the brand new bike I rented that had disc brakes (referred to in the previously posted link). That's the only position I have. I think others agree that should not be the case.

I don't think it matters what shape bars one has, as that has no impact on how far the levers should move, so the ruler would still work. Anyone got a measurement?
IMO no brifter should be set up so that your underneath fingers can impede the act of braking. Some people don't ride with fingers under the hoods evidently in which case there's some more leeway for incorrect setup, but in my case the levers could just about hit the bars themselves (very mushy feeling), and no matter what's claimed, I don't believe that to be the design intent or normal.

GlennR

I can measure mine, but I have Sram Rival CX1 so my shifter lever is a different shape and the left side has no shifter lever

jaxgtr

I don't have a lot of travel, but then again, it does not take a lot of travel to have the brakes engage.

veganbikes

Trek is sketchy...If I were them I wouldn't have had you pay for setting up the bike or building the bike if it was a dealer transfer. If you actually bought the bike at a different shop and then brought it to the other shop to get built charge away but a shop to shop transfer no way. Also Trek saying that your bike shouldn't be set up properly is not good. A brake lever shouldn't touch the bar nor should the brakes rub significantly though unfortunately there is a lot more brake rub these days. I have seen a lot more rotors that are out of true lately coming on new bikes and a small harder to notice tick is fine by me these days so long as it does not slow down the rotor quickly and visibly. However if it is rubbing and slowing down the brake that is not OK.

Trek is buying up little local shops and putting them out of business as Trek stores and if they start malperforming they get propped up by local stores doing better. In these situations it is bad for local business in many cases and bad for those who work at these shops and have worked there for a while but it shouldn't have to be so terrible for customers that you are paying for brake bleeds and bike builds on a brand new bike in a box from another Trek Store.

Though glad you got a new bike and discovered the excellence of disc brakes.

WhyFi

Maybe you should start your own thread, since the OP hasn't expressed this as a problem or a concern.

He's also using the short reach/small hands version of the levers, dude. Again, you've got nothing to offer here - I'm happy to continue to offer experience-borne help to the OP, but I'm done wasting my time with your nonsensical distraction.

GlennR

It looks like it's not a store transfer. From what I read the OP bought the bike from an out of state dealer and took it to the local Trek dealer to have it built. Then the LBS is free to charge for everything.

So the setup is not a warranty issue which means Trek won't pay.

The OP dug a hole and its gonna cost him to get out.

When i bought my Cannondale SuperX I had a problem with the rear brakes. The dealers contacted Cannondale and Sram and got a warranty replacement of the shifter and rear caliper. It cost me $0. But his was pre-covid and finding the bike you want in the size you want was easy.

WhyFi

If it's nothing that's going to compromise your braking, I'd continue to ride it until you get a bug up your butt to take care of it and, as you mentioned previously, there's a chance that the bubbles will work their way up in due course. If you want to do another low-hanging fruit attempt at coaxing the bubbles up, you can also try tapping on whatever brake line is exposed, using a screwdriver handle or similar, in between rounds of lever flicking.

And I'm curious - when you say that you bled the system twice, how did you go about that? Did you flush from the bottom (caliper port) up with a syringe? And do both front and rear feel roughly the same? Front brake lines are short and pretty much straight up and down and seem to be less prone to bubbles causing squish, so it'd be interesting to hear how they compare.

veganbikes

I could have misread it has been a long day I am tired but it sounded like it was bought at a Trek store and shipped to a Trek store. Granted yes not a typical store transfer but I liken it to a Piggly Wiggly (or your favorite named grocery chain or the one local to you which is not this one) sending a product from a store in Florida to Tennesee. However I could have misread or misinterpreted.

Pre-Covid warranties in some cases were nice and easy and some were still beyond difficult now a days more have become a bit difficult that weren't always and some have become less than responsive. I am still waiting on Saris for something from a long time ago.