Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Recoommendation for non adhesive patches to fix tubes?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Recoommendation for non adhesive patches to fix tubes?

Old 10-21-20, 08:52 AM
  #1  
Harhir
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Harhir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 612

Bikes: Fahrradmanufaktur Trekking Bike, 2 x Lightning Phantom, bikeE and bikeE2, Radwagon3

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 57 Posts
Recoommendation for non adhesive patches to fix tubes?

Most patch kits using rubber cement only come with few patches. I know you can buy patches in bulk on ebay or Amazon but most of them do not have great reviews. Can Anyone recommend set a of patches which will stick using standard rubber cement?
I tried making my own using cut offs from an old inner tube but that did not work either. The cement was from a freshly opened tube but the patch could be peeled of easily after a couple of hours.

Thanks
Harhir is offline  
Old 10-21-20, 08:57 AM
  #2  
masi61
Senior Member
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,382

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 982 Post(s)
Liked 322 Times in 228 Posts
Rema TipTop come in 100 count boxes at a good price. They work great. Which patches are you referring to that do not get great reviews?
masi61 is offline  
Likes For masi61:
Old 10-21-20, 09:11 AM
  #3  
Davet
Licensed Bike Geek
 
Davet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Los Barriles, Baja Sur, Mexico
Posts: 1,353

Bikes: Look 585, Kirk Terraplane, Serotta Ottrott, Spectrum Super Custom, Hampsten Carbon Leger Tournesol

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 42 Posts
The Rema TipTop brand is arguably considered the Gold Standard in bicycle tube patches. Buy the kits or patches by themselves but buy good stuff. It’s no fun being on the side of the road because of cheap crap.
Davet is offline  
Likes For Davet:
Old 10-21-20, 09:40 AM
  #4  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,709

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 138 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5150 Post(s)
Liked 2,696 Times in 1,596 Posts
Originally Posted by Harhir View Post
Most patch kits using rubber cement only come with few patches. I know you can buy patches in bulk on ebay or Amazon but most of them do not have great reviews. Can Anyone recommend set a of patches which will stick using standard rubber cement?
I tried making my own using cut offs from an old inner tube but that did not work either. The cement was from a freshly opened tube but the patch could be peeled of easily after a couple of hours.

Thanks
Nope. There is not a patch out there that will stick worth a damn with “standard rubber cement”. Nor is making your own patches going to work all that well. Both aren’t even worth the time to try.

If you want to do it right, use Rema TipTop and only Rema TipTop. That patches and vulcanizing fluid. Rema is a system that uses chemistry to make a bond that is far more permanent that just using rubber cement and bits of rubber. Rubber cement is just a contact adhesive. Rema makes new chemical bonds because the fluid has one component and the patch has the other. Put them together (dry) and they start reacting.

Rema patches come in kits for on bike use or in boxes of 100. Much as I hate to drive business to Amazon, you can get boxes of 100 F1 (25mm) and F0 (16mm) there for around $18. The F1 is good for 35mm and larger tubes while the 16mm works very well on narrower tubes. You can get 8 oz cans of vulcanizing fluid for about the same price as well but unless you are doing dozens of patches per week, I’d suggest against that. A can of vulcanizing fluid can do 200 to 500 patches, depending on how thick you put on the fluid. The can is likely to dry out before you use it up in a home situation.

You can also buy 5g and 10g tubes. They cost more for the same amount of fluid but they are sealed and last longer over time. Once the seal is punctured, the fluid can dry out if you don’t cap it tightly but it’s a lot less costly than forgetting to cap the 8 oz can. The 5g tubes, by the way, are what are in most on-bike kits.

On use: Do not rush the job. You can’t let the fluid dry too much. If you don’t have to fix the tube on the road, do it at home and let the fluid dry. I’ve forgotten about a patch job for several weeks and the patch adhered to the tube just as well as if I’d left it for 20 or 30 minutes. On the road, make sure that the fluid is completely dry before putting the patch on. It may take 5 to 10 minutes but don’t rush it. If any solvent remains, the patch won’t stick.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 10-21-20, 09:45 AM
  #5  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 7,915

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked 1,338 Times in 849 Posts
I've also had good luck with Rema patches, bought in bulk. I've use Rema, Slime, and even Elmer's rubber cement, and can't tell the difference between them over many years and many, many patches. The key is preparation -- sand the mold release off the tube in the area, apply the glue and let it dry. It's easiest to replace the tube on the road and patch the leaky ones at home.
pdlamb is offline  
Likes For pdlamb:
Old 10-21-20, 05:52 PM
  #6  
ironhanglider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Middle East, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Nope. There is not a patch out there that will stick worth a damn with ďstandard rubber cementĒ. Nor is making your own patches going to work all that well. Both arenít even worth the time to try.

If you want to do it right, use Rema TipTop and only Rema TipTop. That patches and vulcanizing fluid. Rema is a system that uses chemistry to make a bond that is far more permanent that just using rubber cement and bits of rubber. Rubber cement is just a contact adhesive. Rema makes new chemical bonds because the fluid has one component and the patch has the other. Put them together (dry) and they start reacting.

Rema patches come in kits for on bike use or in boxes of 100. Much as I hate to drive business to Amazon, you can get boxes of 100 F1 (25mm) and F0 (16mm) there for around $18. The F1 is good for 35mm and larger tubes while the 16mm works very well on narrower tubes. You can get 8 oz cans of vulcanizing fluid for about the same price as well but unless you are doing dozens of patches per week, Iíd suggest against that. A can of vulcanizing fluid can do 200 to 500 patches, depending on how thick you put on the fluid. The can is likely to dry out before you use it up in a home situation.

You can also buy 5g and 10g tubes. They cost more for the same amount of fluid but they are sealed and last longer over time. Once the seal is punctured, the fluid can dry out if you donít cap it tightly but itís a lot less costly than forgetting to cap the 8 oz can. The 5g tubes, by the way, are what are in most on-bike kits.

On use: Do not rush the job. You canít let the fluid dry too much. If you donít have to fix the tube on the road, do it at home and let the fluid dry. Iíve forgotten about a patch job for several weeks and the patch adhered to the tube just as well as if Iíd left it for 20 or 30 minutes. On the road, make sure that the fluid is completely dry before putting the patch on. It may take 5 to 10 minutes but donít rush it. If any solvent remains, the patch wonít stick.
Vulcaninsing fluid (patch glue) will evaporate faster in higher temperatures. I have a small fridge in my garage/workshop that is primarily for the storage of patch glue and throat lubricant.

Cheers,

Cameron
ironhanglider is offline  
Old 10-21-20, 06:09 PM
  #7  
Bill Kapaun
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,252

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1546 Post(s)
Liked 844 Times in 609 Posts
You can make the tube of REMA glue last much longer if you squeeze the air out before capping. Waste a drop or 2 of glue doing this. It still beats leaving a semi to solid "plug of glue" in the opening and wasting a lot more.
I keep my opened tube + a spare tube of glue just in case. When patching at home, I use the opened tube and haven't had a problem yet over several years.
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Likes For Bill Kapaun:
Old 10-21-20, 08:42 PM
  #8  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,709

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 138 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5150 Post(s)
Liked 2,696 Times in 1,596 Posts
Originally Posted by ironhanglider View Post
Vulcaninsing fluid (patch glue) will evaporate faster in higher temperatures. I have a small fridge in my garage/workshop that is primarily for the storage of patch glue and throat lubricant.

Cheers,

Cameron
Not in my experience. The solvent in the glue evaporates when the tube is open. As long as the cap is on tight, the solvent has no where to go. The only times Iíve had problems is if the cap isnít tight.

Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
You can make the tube of REMA glue last much longer if you squeeze the air out before capping. Waste a drop or 2 of glue doing this. It still beats leaving a semi to solid "plug of glue" in the opening and wasting a lot more.
I keep my opened tube + a spare tube of glue just in case. When patching at home, I use the opened tube and haven't had a problem yet over several years.
There really is no need. The vulcanizing fluid doesnít cure because of oxygen. Keeping air out of the tube does nothing. If anything, sucking a bit of air back in the tube so that the top seals better might be beneficial.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 10-21-20, 09:25 PM
  #9  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 16,766

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Srewart 650B ATB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3641 Post(s)
Liked 2,584 Times in 1,623 Posts
I always shake my head at this topic. Patch kits are so cheap compared to the cost of not riding

Having said that and while agreeing with Stuart's posts most of the time I will say that one can make their own patches from pieces of old inner tubes. The piece needs to be dealt with just like the tube prep before applying a patch. Cleaning, applying glue and letting it dry. I've done this a few times over the years, mostly to show it can be done as the prepared "patch" won't like being stored or packed away for future use. The "patch" will have a step of thickness along it's edge that will more easily roll up in use. Think of the cheapest old time patch kit patches and add more crudeness. It takes more time and glue. So whay one would do it as the regular method is beyond me. But I guess when you're at the side of the Silk Road and have run out of good tubes and patches yet still have lots of glue and time this would get you up and riding for a while. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 10-22-20, 11:33 AM
  #10  
Harhir
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Harhir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 612

Bikes: Fahrradmanufaktur Trekking Bike, 2 x Lightning Phantom, bikeE and bikeE2, Radwagon3

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 57 Posts
Thanks everyone. I am going to order some stuff from Rema then. I have used them in the past as well. I just wasn't aware that there is much of a difference.
Harhir is offline  
Old 10-22-20, 01:19 PM
  #11  
dprayvd
makn'a phonecall to doggy
 
dprayvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The blue suit.
Posts: 489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just for fun, here's some rema not holding a 2mm rimside split, front wheel. Ten days of 70 pounds in a 32. Layed-up some fresh velox when I placed the patch. It let go when I was jra slow and level. This failure-type has happened before and for me is a known rema weakness/flaw--and I should have doubled the patch (rema does this quite well when properly prepped.) Flirtin' stupidly with disaster. Glad I wasn't descending.

Technique: clean tube with chemical buffer on paper napkin, apply two layers rtv glue (allow each to fully dry as cycco advises), place patch, thouroughly roll (stitch) patch with end of screwdriver handle. If you're gonna double the patch, repeat all steps on the initial patch for placing the secondary patch.


Also, the buffer I use.


Also, a wrap or two of plumbers teflon on the threads of the gluetube gets a good solvent-saving seal.


ymmv



dprayvd is offline  
Old 10-22-20, 02:01 PM
  #12  
Bill Kapaun
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,252

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1546 Post(s)
Liked 844 Times in 609 Posts
Originally Posted by dprayvd View Post
Just for fun, here's some rema not holding a 2mm rimside split, front wheel. Ten days of 70 pounds in a 32. Layed-up some fresh velox when I placed the patch. It let go when I was jra slow and level. This failure-type has happened before and for me is a known rema weakness/flaw--and I should have doubled the patch (rema does this quite well when properly prepped.) Flirtin' stupidly with disaster. Glad I wasn't descending.

Technique: clean tube with chemical buffer on paper napkin, apply two layers rtv glue (allow each to fully dry as cycco advises), place patch, thouroughly roll (stitch) patch with end of screwdriver handle. If you're gonna double the patch, repeat all steps on the initial patch for placing the secondary patch.


Also, the buffer I use.


Also, a wrap or two of plumbers teflon on the threads of the gluetube gets a good solvent-saving seal.


ymmv
Rimside? Looks more like a failure of the rim strip on a double wall rim.
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 10-22-20, 05:01 PM
  #13  
dprayvd
makn'a phonecall to doggy
 
dprayvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The blue suit.
Posts: 489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
^
Just so. The initial defect certainly was a split from the spokehole dimple from the previous velox strip. Not a deep dimple, but there nontheless allowing for the localized "stretching." And the tube is a decently thick Kenda from around Labor Day, so not old. The offending rimstrip--being some years in place--was replaced due to the dimpling (and its overall age-induced no-longer-very-soft-feeling edges,) and the fresh velox strip is affixed drumhead tight. When I placed the patch I let it remain c-clamped for a day just to be sure of the cure.

This failure is a failure-mode of rema getting some of the tube's inner-talc contaminating the rtv's bond along the border of the split and allowing some extended surface area of the patch to assume full pressure load. Remas cannot handle this, and this is the outcome. Pinhole/goathead punctures don't much exhibit this problem, ime. I'm not going to patch splits in future. Too much risk/too few teeth.

Otherwise, rema is rather foolproof, although they do not prefer extended periods of low relative humidity.

Here's a pic of a bone-thin Specialized 28-38 tube that dimpled like mad; never failed rimside, but didn't remain when I saw this. This is a 3-year rear tube (got lucky somewhat with this) with a few patched goathead punctures that was replaced along with the front in September (again, fresh tight af rimstrip placed att). Same Kenda tubestock back there, but no failure yet. Yet. Time has come to get back to having the "secure" thickness of the puncture-resistant tubes, I say.


dprayvd is offline  
Old 10-23-20, 08:41 AM
  #14  
Moe Zhoost
Half way there
 
Moe Zhoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,802

Bikes: Many, and the list changes frequently

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 923 Post(s)
Liked 778 Times in 462 Posts
Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
You can make the tube of REMA glue last much longer if you squeeze the air out before capping. Waste a drop or 2 of glue doing this. It still beats leaving a semi to solid "plug of glue" in the opening and wasting a lot more.
I keep my opened tube + a spare tube of glue just in case. When patching at home, I use the opened tube and haven't had a problem yet over several years.
This is exactly what I do. Squeeze the tube until a blob of glue appears at the opening then cap up. Although I've never dated my open tubes, I'd guess that they may still be good after a year.

I, too, recommend Rema TipTop. I've used their patches and glues for 50 years with nary a problem.
Moe Zhoost is offline  
Old 10-23-20, 07:54 PM
  #15  
zacster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 7,456

Bikes: Kuota Kredo/Chorus, Trek 7000 commuter, Trek 8000 MTB and a few others

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 348 Times in 273 Posts
I'll just agree that Rema is the only way to go. I've bought bulk patches and cement. I keep a tube in my bike bag but I've used the can of cement for all repairs since I got it. I always carry a spare or two on the road and there is no need to patch on the road unless I'm helping someone else out with a different tube size.

It just isn't worth it to try anything else IMHO.
zacster is offline  
Old 10-23-20, 11:16 PM
  #16  
Barry2 
LRųP=HR
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,599

Bikes: Holdsworth 1979 Special, C-dale 1993 MT3000 Tandem & 1996 F700CAD3, Cervelo 2022 R5 & 2018 R3, JustGo Runt, Ridley Oval, Kickr Bike 8-)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked 795 Times in 461 Posts
I patch on the road. After all, you have to find the hole in order to check inside the tire for the cause still sticking through.
Else the new tube gets holed as well.

Barry
Barry2 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.