burnthesheep

That's a violation of BF posting rules.........FYI.

Cramic

Few straw men here.

You were using your anecdotal experience as evidence that cars do not toot at tractors and do at cyclists and this because they’re bullies. I would bet my last dollar that if the tractor behaved inconsiderately (say two driving side by side at a passing point) they would get tooted at.

I used hypothetical examples of an ever slowing cyclist as a thought experiment to demonstrate everybody will lose patience at some point. You’ve latched on a bit over zealously to the stopped cyclist.

And the OP isn’t claiming evidence of anything, just describes a situation in which he felt it appropriate to tell a cyclist off.

I’m not doubting some drivers get on the horn when they shouldn’t, when they haven’t seen the reason you’re cycling “inconsiderately”, nor that some drivers, like some cyclists, are simply just knobs.

But the OP describes a situation in which a cyclist was unnecessarily inconveniencing others and was right to tell him off.

livedarklions

Really? Because I'm seeing a bunch of people playing cops to enforce their version of courtesy on the road.

I don't care whether the cyclist is right or wrong. Honking and yelling out of your car window is also wrong, and last time I checked, two wrongs still don't make a right.

livedarklions

Given the massive imbalance between the numbers of drivers and the numbers of cyclists, I don't think there's any way that could possibly be true. I agree that the large majority of drivers are pretty good, but encountering scary bad ones is not an unusual occurrence in my neck of the woods. I was almost hit by one this morning.

livedarklions

Look, at least an anecdote actually happened. So if anecdotes aren't evidence, what the hell are hypothetical reactions to hypothetical situations? At best, that's your guess at how an anecdote will turn out if it actually occurred. You can dress that up as a "thought experiment", but all you're doing is making non-testable claims about how we'd react.

And OP was an anecdote, too. So they only count when you like them?

I'll remind you of the old joke that the plural of anecdote is data.

urbanknight

I get your strawman and anecdotal argument, but still feel that you're taking the OP's word that the cyclist was doing something wrong for granted. Like I mentioned, too many people just assume that the person holding them up or blocking their path is doing so for some cartoonish nefarious reason. Just as many cyclists seem to think cars almost hitting them are somehow playing some kind of real life GTA game. It just isn't logical than any more than a few outlying punks would do such a thing. Is it not possible (or even probable) that the OP just didn't see the reason the cyclist wasn't all the way over?

urbanknight

As I mentioned before, I would come to a complete stop and only lose patience if it were abundantly clear that the cyclist was doing it for absolutely no good reason. Since most of the time I can not determine for sure before the cyclist starts moving again, I shrug my shoulders and continue on my way a few seconds later than I was before. And for what it's worth, I would definitely not call myself the most zen cyclist out there.

urbanknight

As far as I'm concerned, we're talking about a driver who assumes they know why the cyclist was taking the lane and responded aggressively instead of actually asking the cyclist why they were doing it.

Cramic

Fair enough and I agree that oftentimes people might get others’ intentions completely wrong.

In this instance I’ve simply taken the OP at face value and agreed that in that situation he was right to have a word with the cyclist. It is certainly possible the cyclist had a valid reason to be holding up traffic though and the OP might have been in the wrong, but we weren’t there.

And I don’t think people behaving inconsiderately are doing so necessarily nefariously, but there are many who are entitled or self absorbed.

tomato coupe

I've been yelled at by drivers when cycling on the road, and I've been yelled at by cyclists when driving a tractor on the road. Neither drivers nor cyclists seem to have cornered the market on sainthood.

rsbob 

No worries, I have you blocked. Imagine that.

urbanknight

That is something someone kind of touched on earlier in this thread. I am morbidly amused at how many people I ride with who will get angry with a motorist for punish passing or otherwise endangering them... then close pass a pedestrian or cut off a car because they can't be bothered to slow down on a path or come to a stop at an octagonal sign.

urbanknight

Well I guess that's one way to convince yourself that you're right.

Seriously though, a windy descent sounds like a place where a car shouldn't try to overtake a cyclist in the first place. Maybe they were riding two abreast to try and discourage such dangerous driving. Like WhyFi, I'm open to hearing more details to see if maybe we're misunderstanding you, but feel free to block me too if you feel that's more productive than civil discourse.

WhyFi

Oh no. What ever will I do? I've been blocked(?) by someone that doesn't know how to ride a bike on a road. Woe is me.

Since you don't seem to recall the event well to describe how, why and the extent to which you were inconvenienced, you could simply give us the location of where it transpired. Should be pretty simple to look at the speed limit, road/shoulder conditions, sightlines through the winding curves, and typical descent times on bicycle. My bet is that is that the difference between them riding one up vs two up isn't enough to make it reliably safe for vehicles to pass and that the delta between bicycle descent times vs the speed limit, over this one mile downhill stretch, is well less than 60 seconds. But who knows - maybe you'll be vindicated for raging at them.

Kedosto

I didn’t mention you. That you feel the need to get defensive about my post speaks volumes. Whether you care about the cyclist or not is irrelevant to my post. Honking and yelling out of the car window may or may not have been the wrong thing to do, but since neither one of us was there, praising or condemning the action is nothing more than ignorant speculation. Inserting one’s own biases or experiences isn’t a substitute for the facts of what actually occurred. I agree with you that “two wrongs still don’t make a right,” but you were the one who assumed OP was wrong. I assumed nothing. I don’t know the facts. Neither do you.

livedarklions

I took the "facts" directly from the OP's post and assumed they were as he described them. I engaged in no speculation, and I think he was wrong to act as he did. I also think his stated rationale that yelling at the guy was about safety because drivers his actions are angering will somehow take it out on other cyclists is palpable, convoluted bs.

If he didn't want other people to express their opinions on the facts as he stated them, then he shouldn't have posted. And to call commenting on them "ignorant speculation" just demonstrates that you are ignorant of the meaning of the words "ignorant" and "speculation".

Bald Paul

Oh, crap...... NOW what do we do?

LarrySellerz

that’s a national championship jersey on the left is it not? Show some respect. Those riders are going at their limit and passing each other all the time, if they stayed in the shoulder riders would drift out into the road in order to pass. They’re probably tearing each other’s legs off and looking to make sure there isn’t a car passing is not always feasible in those situations. The car can go over the double yellow to pass when it is safe.

A honk is not similar to a bicycle bell, a bell is a friendly greeting. You should never pass a cyclist close enough that you need to give them notice that you are there.

GhostRider62

The scenario is illegal in my state. Single file. Two up if there is NO traffic behind is ok.

Imagine that.

Imagine my opinion. Two up holding up traffic is total jerkoff territory in my opinion.

WhyFi

That there's legislation against two-up riding in some bass akwards states doesn't mean that it's two-up riding isn't the best option, for both cyclists and drivers, in many scenarios. If a lane isn't wide enough to safely accommodate both a cyclist and a vehicle at the same time, two-up is no different than one-up... except that it's actually beneficial to the drivers because it halves the length of the group, making for a shorter pass.

GhostRider62

Laws in my state disagree with you as do I as do the many motorists that you probably anger. So, you are wrong within the context of where I live.......that is for sure. That half the distance is BS. A bike is 40 inches long. You are wrong in your view and also why motorists hate us.

WhyFi

Awesome rebuttal.

Airfehr

Hahahahahaha. So you think the guy on the left is passing the group riding four abreast. I see a group riding five abreast. Or is it a group riding three abreast passing a pair. If they were going their limit wouldn't they be drafting.

BTW my bicycle bell tends to scare pedestrians who are taken by surprise. I try my best no to do that. But just like the group of riders in the pic people tend to be lost in their own world with no concern to what is going on around them.

Kedosto

Well, it’s apparent my initial post struck a nerve. Only you know whether or not the shoe fits.

Everyone posting in this thread (other than OP) is ignorant of the facts of the event as it occurred, you included. It’s entirely possible the whole story was fabricated. Offering opinion without knowledge of the facts is the very definition of speculation.

tomato coupe

A bike is 40 inches long? You riding a strider?