Road Etiquette Question: Hopping on a stranger's wheel?
#26
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Good stuff. Thanks, guys. I think the takeaway is don't do it, unless it's a super-temporary situation. I'm glad as this had been my approach generally.
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Not OK in my book unless you ask. You are asking that guy (gal) in front of you to ride for the both of you. (Ie, not say hitting the brakes suddenly or doing a quick move to miss a pothole.) Now, if that guy in front does some such thing, crashes the guy behind and rides on unscathed, in my book, all's good. But if the guy in front suffers injury or damage I suspect he would have solid case in court for damages caused by a tailgater. (In Oregon, a bicycle is considered a vehicle.)
If you are going to do this (stealth drafting), look to make sure the person you are drafting isn't riding a fix gear. A good fix gear rider can do a slowing very quickly by simply applying back pressure as the pedal comes up. In a former commute, I used to ride through a park with several right angle turns at about 7am. Never saw another bike. One day I saw one a hundred yards behind me. Young man. The bike wasn't anything fancy. So except for the fact that it was indeed another bike, nothing that I gave another thought to. Two turns later I did my usual quick backpedal to set up for the turn. There was a huge commotion right behind me! Apparently this guy had caught up to me, very nearly crashed and certainly soiled his pants.
Ben
If you are going to do this (stealth drafting), look to make sure the person you are drafting isn't riding a fix gear. A good fix gear rider can do a slowing very quickly by simply applying back pressure as the pedal comes up. In a former commute, I used to ride through a park with several right angle turns at about 7am. Never saw another bike. One day I saw one a hundred yards behind me. Young man. The bike wasn't anything fancy. So except for the fact that it was indeed another bike, nothing that I gave another thought to. Two turns later I did my usual quick backpedal to set up for the turn. There was a huge commotion right behind me! Apparently this guy had caught up to me, very nearly crashed and certainly soiled his pants.
Ben
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Ben
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I hate this soooooo much! If I'm faster I pass and if I pass you, don't pump up the watts to hang on my wheel b/c your pride is hurt.
The worst is people that hang on your wheel and are playing music or the guys with expensive hubs that coast and you wish you could afford $2500 wheels
The worst is people that hang on your wheel and are playing music or the guys with expensive hubs that coast and you wish you could afford $2500 wheels
#30
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Also, if you can get close enough to draft, DROPE THE HAMER.
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#31
C*pt*i* Obvious
Stranger jumps on your wheel?
Time for some intervals.
If they persist, let them pass.
If a train of two or more riders passes by, I find its difficult to resist the urge to hop on.
Time for some intervals.
If they persist, let them pass.
If a train of two or more riders passes by, I find its difficult to resist the urge to hop on.
#32
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This comes up a lot. I rarely pass folks on the MUP if they're riding at least 10 mph. I'll just throttle down and stay a few bike lengths behind them until it's either safe to pass, or they turn off, or we reach the end of that segment. I don't like crowding folks or surprising them, especially if they appear to be casual riders wearing ear buds.
For me, the MUP is just a transportation corridor. It's not my personal race track. I use it only when it's more convenient than the public streets to get where I'm going. Usually it's much faster to take the public streets, so that's what I'll do if I'm trying to make good time. If I'm on the MUP I'm usually loafing, saving energy for the next high effort burst on a long ride. Last night I rode a metric century, and rode a few miles of the MUP between public road segments as a shortcut and to loaf a bit. The 15-20 mph head wind on half that ride was exhausting.
As Doc I and other folks noted, you don't need to wheelsuck to get some benefit of drafting. About 3 bike lengths back, I can still feel some effect, which means I need to be even more conscious of not crowding the person ahead of me.
Part of the designated bike corridor includes some city streets with bike lanes or sharerows. If I'm averaging 16-17 mph, and the person ahead of me is riding 15 mph, I'll probably hang back. I'm not able to pass and stay consistently ahead enough that they won't catch up at every intersection. I never run stop signs without slowing and looking, even though most of us practice the Idaho Stop on the designated bike lane/sharerows. So there's no point in passing someone who's barely slower than I am. I'll just hang back a few bike lengths. I know from experience most folks will turn off in a mile or two and follow a popular route, while I usually continue on along a route that's a bit harder with a long gradual climb. So I won't be following them for long.
Part of my 62 mile ride yesterday was 20 miles with friends. One of my buds is a big guy. Strong rider on a fixie last night. I stuck to his wheel after about 15 miles into a head wind because he was still strong and I'd already put in nearly 50 miles that night. Good thing about drafting a steady rider on a fixie, you can instantly adjust to them by being alert to what their legs are doing. I ride my brakes and coast more, but I don't worry about running into them or herky jerky movements because they're very experienced and steady.
For me, the MUP is just a transportation corridor. It's not my personal race track. I use it only when it's more convenient than the public streets to get where I'm going. Usually it's much faster to take the public streets, so that's what I'll do if I'm trying to make good time. If I'm on the MUP I'm usually loafing, saving energy for the next high effort burst on a long ride. Last night I rode a metric century, and rode a few miles of the MUP between public road segments as a shortcut and to loaf a bit. The 15-20 mph head wind on half that ride was exhausting.
As Doc I and other folks noted, you don't need to wheelsuck to get some benefit of drafting. About 3 bike lengths back, I can still feel some effect, which means I need to be even more conscious of not crowding the person ahead of me.
Part of the designated bike corridor includes some city streets with bike lanes or sharerows. If I'm averaging 16-17 mph, and the person ahead of me is riding 15 mph, I'll probably hang back. I'm not able to pass and stay consistently ahead enough that they won't catch up at every intersection. I never run stop signs without slowing and looking, even though most of us practice the Idaho Stop on the designated bike lane/sharerows. So there's no point in passing someone who's barely slower than I am. I'll just hang back a few bike lengths. I know from experience most folks will turn off in a mile or two and follow a popular route, while I usually continue on along a route that's a bit harder with a long gradual climb. So I won't be following them for long.
Part of my 62 mile ride yesterday was 20 miles with friends. One of my buds is a big guy. Strong rider on a fixie last night. I stuck to his wheel after about 15 miles into a head wind because he was still strong and I'd already put in nearly 50 miles that night. Good thing about drafting a steady rider on a fixie, you can instantly adjust to them by being alert to what their legs are doing. I ride my brakes and coast more, but I don't worry about running into them or herky jerky movements because they're very experienced and steady.
#33
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#34
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FWIW, I don't mind if a stranger drafts me. As long as they're not on my wheel it's fine. Best to hang back a bike length until you get to know someone's style.
If we've ridden together before it's fine with me if they're on my wheel, even if we don't really know each other that well. If they feel confident enough to stick to my wheel, I'm doing okay -- I never think of myself as being strong and steady enough for anyone to actually want to follow closer than a full bike length.
On casual group rides I try to encourage folks to draft me if they're tired or out of shape. But they're usually not confident enough to try. I suppose we should discuss this stuff before the rides. Just tell folks if they're new or a little out of shape, just hang at the back and stay 2-3 bike lengths behind someone -- they'll still get some benefits of drafting without needing to be on red alert level focus.
But what I usually see is those riders will shift to the side, back into the wind, rather than take any advantage. Not sure whether they think they're being courteous, or just not confident enough and and prefer to see the road ahead themselves. I can understand that. On casual rides I avoid following anyone who seems to veer around erratically if they're not moving to avoid road hazards.
If we've ridden together before it's fine with me if they're on my wheel, even if we don't really know each other that well. If they feel confident enough to stick to my wheel, I'm doing okay -- I never think of myself as being strong and steady enough for anyone to actually want to follow closer than a full bike length.
On casual group rides I try to encourage folks to draft me if they're tired or out of shape. But they're usually not confident enough to try. I suppose we should discuss this stuff before the rides. Just tell folks if they're new or a little out of shape, just hang at the back and stay 2-3 bike lengths behind someone -- they'll still get some benefits of drafting without needing to be on red alert level focus.
But what I usually see is those riders will shift to the side, back into the wind, rather than take any advantage. Not sure whether they think they're being courteous, or just not confident enough and and prefer to see the road ahead themselves. I can understand that. On casual rides I avoid following anyone who seems to veer around erratically if they're not moving to avoid road hazards.
#35
C*pt*i* Obvious
Riding off to the side is safer than directly behind, and even then, some riders will hate it.
Overlapped wheels are what causes most crashes, so never do that.
Overlapped wheels are what causes most crashes, so never do that.
#36
Señor Blues
Two days ago a guy rides up behind me. Even if I couldn't see our shadows I knew he was staying right behind me. After a very short while he said "I'm on your wheel". I was completely ok with that.
Some people have enough friends already. Not me.
Some people have enough friends already. Not me.
#37
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I don't trust the wheels of half the riders I know, I'll be damned if I draft a complete stranger.
#38
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Excellent topic, I don't think it's been discussed before.
#39
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These threads are just nuts. I don't understand why they occur/re-occur. I've probably jumped on 100s of strangers' wheels. I announce "on your wheel" loud enough that they hear. Most riders don't even look around. They certainly don't do anything different from what they've been doing. Why should they? The danger's on me, not on them. If anything, they're a hair faster for my presence. Of course I don't get on the wheels of riders who aren't holding their speed or line. Why would I do that?
A line or rider goes by me maybe 1-2 mph faster than I'm holding solo and I'll accelerate onto the last wheel. If the line wants to only be them, then the last rider always drops back and lets the rotating rider in ahead of them, so I'm not an issue. If it's a collection of strangers, which is usually the case, the rotating rider drops in on my wheel. I'm going to complain?
Every now and again, I'll catch a rider ahead of me who's going just a hair slower than I. I'll announce and sit on their wheel for a while, to rest and check it out. If they seem competent, I'll go around and invite them to sit my wheel. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Either way, no one is worse of than before.
Anyway, that's why these threads are always ridiculous. Just ride your bike and don't worry about it. Be nice and others will be nice back.
A line or rider goes by me maybe 1-2 mph faster than I'm holding solo and I'll accelerate onto the last wheel. If the line wants to only be them, then the last rider always drops back and lets the rotating rider in ahead of them, so I'm not an issue. If it's a collection of strangers, which is usually the case, the rotating rider drops in on my wheel. I'm going to complain?
Every now and again, I'll catch a rider ahead of me who's going just a hair slower than I. I'll announce and sit on their wheel for a while, to rest and check it out. If they seem competent, I'll go around and invite them to sit my wheel. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Either way, no one is worse of than before.
Anyway, that's why these threads are always ridiculous. Just ride your bike and don't worry about it. Be nice and others will be nice back.
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#40
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If you're being drafted at least you can enjoy the 4% reduction in drag.
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Jumped in on your conversation? That IS a bit too friendly. There's a polite way to handle that without being unkind, but I know I don't have such well-cultivated manners, either.
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Overlapped wheels are what causes most crashes, so never do that.
Last edited by kbarch; 02-16-18 at 07:26 AM.
#43
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These threads seem to pop up once every month or two don't they?
I ride alone, mostly at dusk, so I don't see many others out when I'm riding. Yesterday I saw a guy about a mile up the road and made it a point to catch up before I turned around to go home. When I caught up to him, we were in a section where it was too narrow to pass safely at speed. I stayed about 30-45 feet behind him till the path widend. Would you consider this riding someone's wheel? It seems some of you would, I always thought it was basically like tailgating on the highway. Riding inches behind the other bikes wheel.
I don't think it's very safe or polite to stick right on the back of someone without at least making sure they know about it and know how to ride together safely.
I ride alone, mostly at dusk, so I don't see many others out when I'm riding. Yesterday I saw a guy about a mile up the road and made it a point to catch up before I turned around to go home. When I caught up to him, we were in a section where it was too narrow to pass safely at speed. I stayed about 30-45 feet behind him till the path widend. Would you consider this riding someone's wheel? It seems some of you would, I always thought it was basically like tailgating on the highway. Riding inches behind the other bikes wheel.
I don't think it's very safe or polite to stick right on the back of someone without at least making sure they know about it and know how to ride together safely.
#44
Senior Member
Not OK in my book unless you ask. You are asking that guy (gal) in front of you to ride for the both of you. (Ie, not say hitting the brakes suddenly or doing a quick move to miss a pothole.) Now, if that guy in front does some such thing, crashes the guy behind and rides on unscathed, in my book, all's good. But if the guy in front suffers injury or damage I suspect he would have solid case in court for damages caused by a tailgater. (In Oregon, a bicycle is considered a vehicle.)
If you are going to do this (stealth drafting), look to make sure the person you are drafting isn't riding a fix gear. A good fix gear rider can do a slowing very quickly by simply applying back pressure as the pedal comes up. In a former commute, I used to ride through a park with several right angle turns at about 7am. Never saw another bike. One day I saw one a hundred yards behind me. Young man. The bike wasn't anything fancy. So except for the fact that it was indeed another bike, nothing that I gave another thought to. Two turns later I did my usual quick backpedal to set up for the turn. There was a huge commotion right behind me! Apparently this guy had caught up to me, very nearly crashed and certainly soiled his pants.
Ben
If you are going to do this (stealth drafting), look to make sure the person you are drafting isn't riding a fix gear. A good fix gear rider can do a slowing very quickly by simply applying back pressure as the pedal comes up. In a former commute, I used to ride through a park with several right angle turns at about 7am. Never saw another bike. One day I saw one a hundred yards behind me. Young man. The bike wasn't anything fancy. So except for the fact that it was indeed another bike, nothing that I gave another thought to. Two turns later I did my usual quick backpedal to set up for the turn. There was a huge commotion right behind me! Apparently this guy had caught up to me, very nearly crashed and certainly soiled his pants.
Ben
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Had a guy do this to me one day heading home. Think he wanted to cat and mouse me. Would speed up and pass and then slow down and I would pass. Repeat. Then he jumped on my wheel as I picked up a slightly faster pace to distance myself from him. Well, I got tired of his coughing and snot rockets that he was shooting behind me. We came to a fork where the road continued and the MUP started. The MUP is a straight shot for the first mile and a half. As we crested the small hill onto the MUP and he was still behind me drafting, it was time to go so I dropped him. Not a single soul on the MUP that time so it was full steam ahead. Think he got the idea and didn't try to catch up.
Don't hop on a strangers wheel. Not sure that many of us out there enjoy that.
Don't hop on a strangers wheel. Not sure that many of us out there enjoy that.
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The first waving thread of 2018 cannot be far off.
#48
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There's also a philosophical side to riding with others. On your bike, you speak with your bike and you speak your truth. Your bike will show your soul to other riders. That's what's so cool about riding with a group. People don't normally bare all in that way. And that's also why tandems are called "divorce machines." If you can ride tandem with her or him, you're good for life.
So be careful what you say about yourself.
So be careful what you say about yourself.
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I don't like wheel sucking. I always stay about 2 bike links away and out of their line. I only pass if I really feel stronger than the person in front. Also don't like wheel suckers behind me.
#50
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Hopping on a stranger's wheel?
Avoid at all costs. Besides being dangerous, it's also cheating. Be a man, woman, or whatever the case may be, and ride safely and honestly in the wind.