Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Professional Cycling For the Fans
Reload this Page >

Do you think Pogacar is doping?

Notices
Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

Do you think Pogacar is doping?

Old 03-10-22, 01:29 PM
  #101  
vespasianus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: In the south but from North
Posts: 685

Bikes: Turner 5-Spot Burner converted; IBIS Ripley, Specialized Crave, Tommasini Sintesi, Cinelli Superstar, Tommasini X-Fire Gravel

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 376 Times in 210 Posts
Originally Posted by hrdknox1
Time will lead us to suspect doping or not. I think of how Chris Froome, who was unbelievable like Pogacar, is now just an ordinary Pro. He is healed from his injuries and is nothing of his past dominance. How do you go from such dominance to ordinary so quickly?

Froome had an absolutely terrible accident. Guys is lucky to be riding a bike period.
vespasianus is offline  
Old 03-10-22, 04:40 PM
  #102  
slcbob
bored of "Senior Member"
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MD / metro DC
Posts: 2,870

Bikes: Cross-Check/Nexus commuter. Several others for various forms of play.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 639 Post(s)
Liked 575 Times in 445 Posts
Originally Posted by ooga-booga
dealio as you’re carrying the beer/wine and snacks.
I'm on it! You might need to pedal hard if you want to get to the feed zone while there is some left.

Perhaps consider doping. I think there are some tips somewhere around the forum on that. Or at least some opinions.

At a minimum, I'll be sure there is some good stuff on ice back at the villa / git / zimmer frei / whatever it is in Slovenian
slcbob is online now  
Likes For slcbob:
Old 03-20-22, 05:25 PM
  #103  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,174
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4273 Post(s)
Liked 4,710 Times in 2,910 Posts
Originally Posted by vespasianus
Froome had an absolutely terrible accident. Guys is lucky to be riding a bike period.
Exactly. Plus his personality simply doesn't compute with the concept of doping/cheating. Contrast that with Lance's persona! I doubt Pog or any of the younger guys are doping either. It's not considered part of the game like it was back in the day and the younger guys know what doping ultimately did to the previous generations who did consider it part and parcel of the sport. I'm not saying that there are NO cheaters in the peloton, but I think now it is far more likely to be the exception rather than the rule. Pretty much the opposite from 20 years ago, lol.

In the end somebody has to be the winner and it doesn't mean that winner must automatically be doping. We should give Pog some credit for his obvious talent and not assume he is following the previous generation of dopers.

Lance on the other hand was obviously doping. Doping was rife in his day and he had exactly the right personality to go large on it. Pretty much the only person that insisted he wasn't doping was Lance himself!
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 03-21-22, 06:13 AM
  #104  
work4bike
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,924
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3742 Post(s)
Liked 1,015 Times in 765 Posts
I have to admit, I was surprised when Hincapie admitted to doping.
work4bike is offline  
Old 07-28-22, 12:19 PM
  #105  
MSD2424
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think many of the elite players are on something. And we have had data to back it up for years. The TDF and most races are not easy. Yet according to the numbers the riders are going faster each year. Are they beating the times of say Lance? According to some reports...yes. Other reports don't say anything about certain periods, rather just that the overall time of the TDF (all 21 stages) is higher/faster than it was in the past. They are not making a totally flat stage tour so the only thing that fits is something that inhances performance. I don’t recall his name, but the French rider who won a stage this year is an excellent choice to talk about. He is a Jumbo rider, average performance on another team. This year, his second with Jumbo he is suddenly putting in rides around 25% or better than previous years. You can say it's the teams prep on the bikes and nutrition off. As well as recovery programs. However, it is a little suspicious. Wout van Aert was asked about it point blank this year after the TDF. He didn't answer the question, rather just said "why is this always a question when anyone performs well" and in an interview used a few 4 letter words and how he can't believe it is even being asked.

So, I don't know what is going on to have TDF times getting faster. And riders like the French rider on Jumbo suddenly get a high percentage better after signing. However, it is a good talking point.

Edit: His name is Christophe Laporteand here is a link to his Wikipedia page. While some information is likely wrong. His wins and placings are correct. Seems he improved fast in 2yrs.

Look at his Wikipedia page for his results. The information is correct for them even if the rest is not.
MSD2424 is offline  
Old 07-28-22, 02:07 PM
  #106  
bbbean 
Senior Member
 
bbbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,689

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 672 Post(s)
Liked 413 Times in 246 Posts
So, the whole world devotes time and energy to build faster bikes, train better, harness better nutrition, and continually pit the very best against the very best, and the only reason many people can come up with any given rider winning is doping?
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Old 07-28-22, 02:45 PM
  #107  
MinnMan
Senior Member
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,734

Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4265 Post(s)
Liked 2,937 Times in 1,811 Posts
Originally Posted by MSD2424
I think many of the elite players are on something. And we have had data to back it up for years. The TDF and most races are not easy. Yet according to the numbers the riders are going faster each year. Are they beating the times of say Lance? According to some reports...yes. Other reports don't say anything about certain periods, ratherjust that the overall time of the TDF (all 21 stages) is higher/faster than it was in the past. They are not making a totally flat stage tour so the only thing that fits is something that inhances performance. t.
I stopped reading at this sentence. There's no point in reading the opinions of somebody who doesn't really understand bike racing.
MinnMan is offline  
Old 07-28-22, 02:45 PM
  #108  
79pmooney
Senior Member
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,826

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4743 Post(s)
Liked 3,860 Times in 2,509 Posts
Average Tour speeds are very driven by how hard the race is ridden. Long ago, the flat long stages were rolling club rides. Riders stopped in villages to raid stores for food and drinks, then catch up to the field and share them. The Tour has grown up. Far more money, prestige and expectations. Yes, the rolling rest days still happen, but far less. (The Tour itself plays a part here. They keep shortening and concentrating the stages to boost speeds and excitement. Well the riders are still human. Too many hard stages and the riders tire out. And they are working stiffs, despite all the fancy gear. Boss lays on them too often and they go on strike, only in theTour, they are rolling strikes.)

So average speeds? Shorter, more intense stages boost those speeds. A slow long one in protest (or just tired legs) slows that average quite a bit. Just look at the actual finish times vs what the organizers planned based on fastest and slowest expected speeds. I think they missed both this year by a half hour or so!

And there are the game changers. Aero equipment, far lighter bikes. Pavement. (That one works both ways. Think gravel and cobbles.) The courses, the weather. Note that all this stuff happens without (edit: where's my proofreader?) any drugs involved at all.

And to the original topic - Pogacar - read my post #7. First two paragraghs I outline what must be done to win the Tour and then, what the other key teams failed to do last year. Well Pogacar and team should have read my post and taken it seriously. This year they screwed up as badly as J-V did last year and J-V got it, well not perfect, but pretty close. I won't for a second claim the peloton is clean but I do not see evidence from the past several Tours that drugs are having a driving influence.

Last edited by 79pmooney; 07-28-22 at 07:46 PM.
79pmooney is online now  
Likes For 79pmooney:
Old 07-28-22, 03:30 PM
  #109  
bbbean 
Senior Member
 
bbbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,689

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 672 Post(s)
Liked 413 Times in 246 Posts
Originally Posted by MinnMan
I stopped reading at this sentence. There's no point in reading the opinions of somebody who doesn't really understand bike racing.
It is remarkable how eager people are to hold opinions on something they don't understand, even at a basic level.
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Old 07-28-22, 03:34 PM
  #110  
downtube42
Senior Member
 
downtube42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,803

Bikes: Trek Domane SL6 Gen 3, Soma Fog Cutter, Focus Mares AL, Detroit Bikes Sparrow FG, Volae Team, Nimbus MUni

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 878 Post(s)
Liked 2,019 Times in 1,055 Posts
I found this an interesting read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ses_in_cycling

I want to believe the bad era of doping is over, so I'm going to believe that until I know otherwise.
downtube42 is offline  
Old 07-28-22, 07:25 PM
  #111  
MSD2424
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MinnMan
I stopped reading at this sentence. There's no point in reading the opinions of somebody who doesn't really understand bike racing.
Cat 1 count? I have been cycling and watching the big races for 30+ years
MSD2424 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.