Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Move over carbon fiber

Search
Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Move over carbon fiber

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-08-22, 09:30 AM
  #1  
_ForceD_
Sr Member on Sr bikes
Thread Starter
 
_ForceD_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rhode Island (sometimes in SE Florida)
Posts: 2,320

Bikes: Several...from old junk to new all-carbon.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1017 Post(s)
Liked 783 Times in 413 Posts
Move over carbon fiber


Michelle Shen
USA TODAY

MIT researchers have developed a new material that’s as strong as steel but as light as plastic.

It can be easily manufactured in large quantities, and the use cases range from lightweight coatings for cars and phones to building blocks for massive structures such as bridges, according to Michael Strano, the Carbon P. Dubbs Professor of Chemical Engineering at MIT and the senior author of a new study.

'We don’t usually think of plastics as being something that you could use to support a building, but with this material, you can enable new things,' he said in a statement from MIT.

The material is several times stronger than bulletproof glass, and the amount of force needed to break it is twice that of steel, despite the fact that the material has only about one-sixth the density of steel, according to MIT.

The researchers were able to do this by developing a new process to form polymers. Plastics are an example of polymers, along with rubber and glass.

The researchers wanted to see whether they could create a two-dimensional version of a polymer that could remain flat, thus making it lightweight. They tried for decades to create such a material, and the new process they developed was published in peer-reviewed journal Nature last week.

Polymers are essentially chains of individual molecules, called monomers, linked together by chemical bonds. Normally, when polymers are formed, they expand into three-dimensional objects, like how a sheet cake rises as it bakes in an oven. The challenge is if even one monomer begins to rotate, the polymer becomes three-dimensional.

For example, imagine if you wanted to line up children and pack a bunch of them in an auditorium by having them link arms. However, if even one of the children choose to be unruly and shift around, it would be impossible to maintain order.
Link to article


Dan
_ForceD_ is offline  
Likes For _ForceD_:
Old 02-08-22, 09:32 AM
  #2  
Branko D
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 338 Post(s)
Liked 408 Times in 252 Posts
Will be exciting to see industrial applications, for sure!
Branko D is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 09:36 AM
  #3  
Germany_chris
I’m a little Surly
 
Germany_chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,422

Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times in 647 Posts
UCI will still have 6.8KG minimum weight
Germany_chris is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 10:04 AM
  #4  
Rdmonster69
Shawn of the Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 216 Posts
Cue the "Steel is Real" folks ; )
Rdmonster69 is offline  
Likes For Rdmonster69:
Old 02-08-22, 10:19 AM
  #5  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times in 5,054 Posts
Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
Cue the "Steel is Real" folks ; )

How about cue the "show me a proof of concept bike" at least before comparing it to other materials.

May be be a bit too early to extol the virtues of the "2 Dimensional Version of a Polymer" bike.

BTW, did anyone else suspect this was a joke when they saw the name "Carbon P. Dubbs"? I had to google that:
https://digging-history.com/2016/01/...-riches-story/

Real guy, really funny name.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 02-08-22, 10:24 AM
  #6  
Rdmonster69
Shawn of the Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 216 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
How about cue the "show me a proof of concept bike" at least before comparing it to other materials.

.

It will cost a zillion dollars too !! But maybe they can give it a cool name that something rhymes with so we have another saying to throw around !!
Rdmonster69 is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 10:31 AM
  #7  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times in 5,054 Posts
Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
It will cost a zillion dollars too !! But maybe they can give it a cool name that something rhymes with so we have another saying to throw around !!

Well, it is a plastic. That rhymes with spastic and fantastic, so it could go either way.

Drastic and elastic may or may not fit.

According to the article, it's supposed to be cheap, btw.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 02-08-22, 10:45 AM
  #8  
Troul 
Senior Member
 
Troul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,355

Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,946 Times in 1,906 Posts
how easy will it be to patch or repair, of it can be?

How much of an impact with UV have on an exposed untreated or non-painted surface?
__________________
-Oh Hey!
Troul is offline  
Likes For Troul:
Old 02-08-22, 10:50 AM
  #9  
_ForceD_
Sr Member on Sr bikes
Thread Starter
 
_ForceD_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rhode Island (sometimes in SE Florida)
Posts: 2,320

Bikes: Several...from old junk to new all-carbon.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1017 Post(s)
Liked 783 Times in 413 Posts
The “will cost a lot” “will take a while” comments about cycling applications are obvious. It will probably follow a similar development/acceptance/usage that CF did. This is just announcing its discovery. The stuff is still in the lab. The discovery/development of CF goes back about a century or more. Initially used in the aerospace industry in the 1960s. Wasn’t used in cycling (for a frame) until the late 1980s. LeMond won the TdF on a CF frame in 1986. CF frames weren’t widely available until the 2000s (but that was probably because of UCI acceptance of it). Maybe cycling applications with this new stuff might happen sooner. Technology always speeds up.

Dan
_ForceD_ is offline  
Likes For _ForceD_:
Old 02-08-22, 10:54 AM
  #10  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times in 5,054 Posts
Originally Posted by Troul
how easy will it be to patch or repair, of it can be?

How much of an impact with UV have on an exposed untreated or non-painted surface?
How will it feel riding it?

I did note that they described it as useful for a lightweight coating for cars, but also (presumably) load-bearing bridge "building blocks." Anyone versed enough in materials science to recognize anything significant from that seemingly odd pairing?

Last edited by livedarklions; 02-08-22 at 11:01 AM.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 11:00 AM
  #11  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times in 5,054 Posts
Originally Posted by _ForceD_
The “will cost a lot” “will take a while” comments about cycling applications are obvious. It will probably follow a similar development/acceptance/usage that CF did. This is just announcing its discovery. The stuff is still in the lab. The discovery/development of CF goes back about a century or more. Initially used in the aerospace industry in the 1960s. Wasn’t used in cycling (for a frame) until the late 1980s. LeMond won the TdF on a CF frame in 1986. CF frames weren’t widely available until the 2000s (but that was probably because of UCI acceptance of it). Maybe cycling applications with this new stuff might happen sooner. Technology always speeds up.

Dan

It's interesting but, of course, people have to recognize that we're all just speculating based on almost no knowledge of the material, and absolutely zero knowledge of its compatibility with different production techniques.

For example, I'd love to know if this is useable in 3D printing--that could mean inexpensive bespoke frames.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 02-08-22, 11:39 AM
  #12  
_ForceD_
Sr Member on Sr bikes
Thread Starter
 
_ForceD_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rhode Island (sometimes in SE Florida)
Posts: 2,320

Bikes: Several...from old junk to new all-carbon.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1017 Post(s)
Liked 783 Times in 413 Posts
Comments about frame material through history…
1830s - “My good sir…I can’t believe you’re still riding one of those wooden velocipedes. Steel is real!”
1930s - “I do say…I can’t believe you’re not riding a chromoly frame yet.”
1990s - “Bro, I can’t believe you’re not riding an aluminum frame yet.”
2000s - “Like shouldn’t you be be riding a carbon fiber frame now, dude?’
2040s - “Where’s your plastic polymer bike?”

Last edited by _ForceD_; 02-08-22 at 12:07 PM.
_ForceD_ is offline  
Likes For _ForceD_:
Old 02-08-22, 12:03 PM
  #13  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,801

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1943 Post(s)
Liked 2,164 Times in 1,323 Posts
The truth is, a bicycle is one of the more primitive devices out there.

For all the technological advancements in frame materials we are still using a steel chain to steel cogs for the overwhelmingly majority of bikes. Despite all the space age developments, function still revolves around the weakest quick link.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Likes For 70sSanO:
Old 02-08-22, 12:07 PM
  #14  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,605

Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1660 Post(s)
Liked 1,808 Times in 1,053 Posts
Still waiting on nanotubes and Buckyballs.
tcs is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 12:08 PM
  #15  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,381
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4388 Post(s)
Liked 4,828 Times in 2,984 Posts
Originally Posted by 70sSanO
The truth is, a bicycle is one of the more primitive devices out there.

For all the technological advancements in frame materials we are still using a steel chain to steel cogs for the overwhelmingly majority of bikes. Despite all the space age developments, function still revolves around the weakest quick link.

John
But they are refined to the nth degree. Enough that you can easily identify a distinct timeline of development, especially at the top end of the market.

Edit: Except for FDs, which are still very primitive contraptions!
PeteHski is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 12:16 PM
  #16  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times in 5,054 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
But they are refined to the nth degree. Enough that you can easily identify a distinct timeline of development, especially at the top end of the market.

Edit: Except for FDs, which are still very primitive contraptions!

Plus the drive train design is an extremely efficient match for the engine, and no one is coming up with a redesign of the engine anytime soon.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 12:28 PM
  #17  
_ForceD_
Sr Member on Sr bikes
Thread Starter
 
_ForceD_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rhode Island (sometimes in SE Florida)
Posts: 2,320

Bikes: Several...from old junk to new all-carbon.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1017 Post(s)
Liked 783 Times in 413 Posts
There is a driveshaft option to the chain drive. I’d think this (the gears) lasts somewhat longer. Obviously not very popular. — Dan

_ForceD_ is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 12:51 PM
  #18  
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446

Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,102 Times in 1,366 Posts
Originally Posted by tcs
Still waiting on nanotubes and Buckyballs.
hush and eat your graphene
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Darth Lefty is offline  
Likes For Darth Lefty:
Old 02-08-22, 12:53 PM
  #19  
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446

Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,102 Times in 1,366 Posts
Steel and concrete are really, really cheap. When this stuff is stronger per dollar then it will be important for anything other than aerospace and sporting goods
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Darth Lefty is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 01:02 PM
  #20  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times in 5,054 Posts
Originally Posted by _ForceD_
There is a driveshaft option to the chain drive. I’d think this (the gears) lasts somewhat longer. Obviously not very popular. — Dan

Yeah, there's a long, sad history of failures with the shaft drive concept. Remember CeramicSpeed showing off their shaft drive prototype a couple years ago? They've now spun it off into a new company "Driven" which is now crowd funded. They claim they're planning on having an actual product by 2023, but I'm skeptical..
livedarklions is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 02:04 PM
  #21  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,569 Times in 974 Posts
I suppose since it's just in the lab we should all pack it in and go back to talking about the same typical Bikeforums troll questions asked the 1000th time or some kind of really Fred topic such as trying to race people on group rides with tt bars. You know, instead of speculate about something new and different for once.
burnthesheep is offline  
Likes For burnthesheep:
Old 02-08-22, 02:33 PM
  #22  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,467

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4335 Post(s)
Liked 3,958 Times in 2,646 Posts
Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
Cue the "Steel is Real" folks ; )
Plastic is fantastic
veganbikes is offline  
Likes For veganbikes:
Old 02-08-22, 02:40 PM
  #23  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,801

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1943 Post(s)
Liked 2,164 Times in 1,323 Posts
Originally Posted by _ForceD_
There is a driveshaft option to the chain drive. I’d think this (the gears) lasts somewhat longer. Obviously not very popular. — Dan

But there is probably some advantage to be found in working your way through the peleton.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 03:09 PM
  #24  
Troul 
Senior Member
 
Troul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,355

Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,946 Times in 1,906 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Plus the drive train design is an extremely efficient match for the engine, and no one is coming up with a redesign of the engine anytime soon.
schedule II substances provided a lot of reshaping for the engine, just that its use is frowned upon.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
Troul is offline  
Old 02-08-22, 05:25 PM
  #25  
TiHabanero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,457
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1741 Post(s)
Liked 1,369 Times in 718 Posts
Emerson, Lake, and Palmer sing about plastic fantastic.
TiHabanero is offline  
Likes For TiHabanero:


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.