Why don't people want to pedal anymore?
09-07-22, 04:11 PM
#101
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Don't worry. Their LIPO batteries will die soon, just like LIPOs in other gadgets, and they will be too expensive to replace. Then the e-bikes will be relegated to the basements or garages, two flat tires and a dead battery.
Also, take a look at the article linked in 3alarmer's post #96 above to get a full understanding of what the hazards and problems are with LIPOs. It's worth the read.
Also, take a look at the article linked in 3alarmer's post #96 above to get a full understanding of what the hazards and problems are with LIPOs. It's worth the read.
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09-07-22, 04:23 PM
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America Has An E-Bike Problem That Can’t Be Solved With More E-Bikes
...given the thread topic, this is an interesting read. Not so much "Get off my lawn !" as "How many people can be on my lawn before it's a problem ? Do I need to move to a larger lot ?"
The obvious answer is redesign to accommodate the new traffic balance, but this is America. In Europe they just redraw the lines on the road and everything is fine.
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09-07-22, 06:04 PM
#104
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Don't worry. Their LIPO batteries will die soon, just like LIPOs in other gadgets, and they will be too expensive to replace. Then the e-bikes will be relegated to the basements or garages, two flat tires and a dead battery.
Also, take a look at the article linked in 3alarmer's post #96 above to get a full understanding of what the hazards and problems are with LIPOs. It's worth the read.
Also, take a look at the article linked in 3alarmer's post #96 above to get a full understanding of what the hazards and problems are with LIPOs. It's worth the read.
And as a FYI, she was a hard core roadie until she got severe RA. This allows her to still get out without too much pain and still enjoy the sport she loves.
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09-07-22, 06:13 PM
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In the hypothetical situation of
If a motorist has a "3 cocktail lunch" and is driving home and is sideswiped by a car in an intersection who ran a red light. Is it our guys' fault because he was tipsy? I mean, he should have been paying more attention although his light was green
That analogy is a bit of a stretch to be sure, but i was just trying to illustrate the fact that ignoring a rule, law or guideline doesnt make you guilty across the board of every contingency
If a motorist has a "3 cocktail lunch" and is driving home and is sideswiped by a car in an intersection who ran a red light. Is it our guys' fault because he was tipsy? I mean, he should have been paying more attention although his light was green
That analogy is a bit of a stretch to be sure, but i was just trying to illustrate the fact that ignoring a rule, law or guideline doesnt make you guilty across the board of every contingency
The legal sticker for age limitations takes the normal liability off the person riding the bicycle. If the ebike was not suppose to be there, then the case is rather simple. Put in other scenarios & what not, then it's a lawyers case. That is not what this is about though.
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09-07-22, 06:15 PM
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09-07-22, 07:23 PM
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Not from what I have seen. There are more kids (12 or so) on throttle e-bikes than I’ve seen on regular bikes in years. In the area where I live nothing is flat and for years you wouldn’t see many kids pedaling a BMX type bike around. Now kids just cruise up the hills.
You can call them what you want to call them, they aren’t pedaling to keep the bike moving. Usually they ride on sidewalks. Sometimes they’ll turn the pedals a few times and stop pedaling, and sometimes they just start off with power from a complete stop.
I would think the vast majority of e-bikes are throttle type that don’t require any pedaling to get an assist. Too much speed for too little movement.
I do think there is a natural tendency to turn bike pedals and then throttle the bike when someone is tired of pedaling or wants to go faster.
John
You can call them what you want to call them, they aren’t pedaling to keep the bike moving. Usually they ride on sidewalks. Sometimes they’ll turn the pedals a few times and stop pedaling, and sometimes they just start off with power from a complete stop.
I would think the vast majority of e-bikes are throttle type that don’t require any pedaling to get an assist. Too much speed for too little movement.
I do think there is a natural tendency to turn bike pedals and then throttle the bike when someone is tired of pedaling or wants to go faster.
John
Yes these throttled machines are a menace same with the e-scooters on the sidewalks but if we start lumping them together with bicycles we can cause a lot problems for actual cyclists down the road.
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09-07-22, 07:30 PM
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Again these "bikes" you are describing are mopeds, really crappy mopeds but mopeds. A bicycle requires pedaling and an e-bike will only work under pedaling a moped can use pedaling but is generally used with a throttle. Let's not conflate them with actual e-bikes and cause issues for cyclists.
Yes these throttled machines are a menace same with the e-scooters on the sidewalks but if we start lumping them together with bicycles we can cause a lot problems for actual cyclists down the road.
Yes these throttled machines are a menace same with the e-scooters on the sidewalks but if we start lumping them together with bicycles we can cause a lot problems for actual cyclists down the road.
No one sells them as mopeds. They are sold as e-bikes and I’m guessing the vast majority of e-bikes are throttle and not pedal assist. It’s not going to change anytime soon.
John
09-07-22, 07:31 PM
#109
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Not really late to the party I have been saying this for years and years. All the bikes we sell are throttle free.
09-07-22, 09:05 PM
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Electric motor -bike
Am I missing something here?
There are not supposed to be motorized vehicles on a bike trail. The whole point of a bike trail is its for bikes . An electric motor = motorized .
My fear is on busy trails, the heavier bike and speeds is going to see more injuries. So are they insured ?? Im all for less cars on the road, but i doubt electric bikes will do this. A highly developed transit system and walkable cities will .
I'm all for electric assistance if for older or disabled and it gets them out , and they know how to ride safely however.. IMO...
There are not supposed to be motorized vehicles on a bike trail. The whole point of a bike trail is its for bikes . An electric motor = motorized .
My fear is on busy trails, the heavier bike and speeds is going to see more injuries. So are they insured ?? Im all for less cars on the road, but i doubt electric bikes will do this. A highly developed transit system and walkable cities will .
I'm all for electric assistance if for older or disabled and it gets them out , and they know how to ride safely however.. IMO...
Last edited by rossiny; 09-08-22 at 07:52 PM.
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09-07-22, 09:22 PM
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a parent to institute better decision making hasn't been enforceable to there kids.
The legal sticker for age limitations takes the normal liability off the person riding the bicycle. If the ebike was not suppose to be there, then the case is rather simple. Put in other scenarios & what not, then it's a lawyers case. That is not what this is about though.
The legal sticker for age limitations takes the normal liability off the person riding the bicycle. If the ebike was not suppose to be there, then the case is rather simple. Put in other scenarios & what not, then it's a lawyers case. That is not what this is about though.
limiting a bike to 12 mph unless you are over 21 is an unenforceable premise though
just like Honda or Yamaha putting a fictional “16 and up” suggestion on motorcycles clearly designed for pre teens - aka any motocross or off road bike under 100cc
but not to get p&r or anything, but do we want people dictating our usage for things just to make a few old guys like me and you happy?
the 21 plus suggestion as well as the 12mph head trip is ridiculous. We can all pedal faster than that on our department store BMX bikes when we were kids
They are just bicycles by the way.
And I’m talking about bicycles not the little quasi-dirt bikes that don’t even have crank sets or pedals. No those don’t really belong on public streets
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09-08-22, 01:09 AM
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limiting a bike to 12 mph unless you are over 21 is an unenforceable premise though
just like Honda or Yamaha putting a fictional “16 and up” suggestion on motorcycles clearly designed for pre teens - aka any motocross or off road bike under 100cc
but not to get p&r or anything, but do we want people dictating our usage for things just to make a few old guys like me and you happy?
the 21 plus suggestion as well as the 12mph head trip is ridiculous. We can all pedal faster than that on our department store BMX bikes when we were kids
They are just bicycles by the way.
And I’m talking about bicycles not the little quasi-dirt bikes that don’t even have crank sets or pedals. No those don’t really belong on public streets
g”
just like Honda or Yamaha putting a fictional “16 and up” suggestion on motorcycles clearly designed for pre teens - aka any motocross or off road bike under 100cc
but not to get p&r or anything, but do we want people dictating our usage for things just to make a few old guys like me and you happy?
the 21 plus suggestion as well as the 12mph head trip is ridiculous. We can all pedal faster than that on our department store BMX bikes when we were kids
They are just bicycles by the way.
And I’m talking about bicycles not the little quasi-dirt bikes that don’t even have crank sets or pedals. No those don’t really belong on public streets
g”
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09-08-22, 02:02 AM
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Unless the states is vastly different than Europe the vast majority of e-bikes are pedalecs that need pedaled.
09-08-22, 04:01 AM
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The issue I find with ebikes that 'require" pedaling is that it can often be defeated using aftermarket parts or a hack mod that makes it into more of an automatic engagement rather than assisted.
it sucks to write off all DOT & non DOT motorized equipment to be prohibited on the MUP & roadways, but it is a regulation that actually serves a purpose.
Golf cart users are not throwing up there arms calling it discrimination or anything of foul, matter in fact, when those who try riding on the roadway & MUP with a GC, often get a prompt visit by the law.
it sucks to write off all DOT & non DOT motorized equipment to be prohibited on the MUP & roadways, but it is a regulation that actually serves a purpose.
Golf cart users are not throwing up there arms calling it discrimination or anything of foul, matter in fact, when those who try riding on the roadway & MUP with a GC, often get a prompt visit by the law.
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09-08-22, 04:03 AM
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Additionally, runners & cyclists don't use a golf course, why can't the motorized equipment respect the MUP just the same?
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09-08-22, 07:42 AM
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Might be different depending on where you live. All the ones I see in my area are (so far) the pedal assist class 1.
09-08-22, 07:46 AM
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It varies by state, city and county. The paved trail I'm referring to when I started this discussion allows e-assist bikes with the disclaimer that "any e-bike capable of more than 30 miles per hour is, under state law, a motorcycle and not a bicycle, and may not be ridden on any portion of the trail"
09-08-22, 08:07 AM
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My riding buddy is 79 with a pacemaker and on oxygen 24/7. He would not be able to ride without his ebike. Just incidentally, he logged tens of thousands of miles on a pedal bike - transcontinental, across Alaska, etc. - before COPD and a heart condition took him down. Most of the ebike use I see in our community is older people with smiles on their faces. They are riding responsibility. On only one occasion did a fat tire ebike blow by me on the right without warning. I share others concerns about people riding beyond their skill level. But ebikes are here to stay and we need to accept that.
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09-08-22, 09:30 AM
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Some are the cheap Costco type, but a lot look more substantial frame fat tire ebikes.
John
09-08-22, 12:52 PM
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The new hazard around here (Silicon Valley) is the e-scooter. They are limited to 15 mph, but many have been hacked to go much faster.
The riders are mostly young men, sailing through intersections and riding the wrong direction.
I recently pulled out from a red light next to scooter guy. I was up to 22 mph in about 100 feet (slight downhill). He was gone off the front, doing 30+ while turning down a side street.
The riders are mostly young men, sailing through intersections and riding the wrong direction.
I recently pulled out from a red light next to scooter guy. I was up to 22 mph in about 100 feet (slight downhill). He was gone off the front, doing 30+ while turning down a side street.
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09-08-22, 01:03 PM
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I gotta admit, my only experience with e-bike users is mountain bikers on actual trails. Locally in the central Oklahoma area, the most prominent e-bikers here are in their 70's , but Bentonville AR is not far away, and the place has wonderful downhill trails - but precious few shuttles and no lifts.
In either of those scenarios , --- sure, some backyard mechanic may be able to tune his E-MTB to run a theoretical 40mph, but they will soon find themselves bouncing off trees as tthe trails can only support speeds of 9 or 10 mph for mere mortals and perhaps 12-13 for legitimate racer types
I actually love it that the 70 ish y/o guy (and his wife) whom i know to both have matching turbo Levo MTB's - are putting in average laps to rival mine on Strava
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09-08-22, 01:50 PM
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The issue I find with ebikes that 'require" pedaling is that it can often be defeated using aftermarket parts or a hack mod that makes it into more of an automatic engagement rather than assisted.
it sucks to write off all DOT & non DOT motorized equipment to be prohibited on the MUP & roadways, but it is a regulation that actually serves a purpose.
it sucks to write off all DOT & non DOT motorized equipment to be prohibited on the MUP & roadways, but it is a regulation that actually serves a purpose.
09-08-22, 01:52 PM
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The new hazard around here (Silicon Valley) is the e-scooter. They are limited to 15 mph, but many have been hacked to go much faster.
The riders are mostly young men, sailing through intersections and riding the wrong direction.
I recently pulled out from a red light next to scooter guy. I was up to 22 mph in about 100 feet (slight downhill). He was gone off the front, doing 30+ while turning down a side street.
The riders are mostly young men, sailing through intersections and riding the wrong direction.
I recently pulled out from a red light next to scooter guy. I was up to 22 mph in about 100 feet (slight downhill). He was gone off the front, doing 30+ while turning down a side street.
I have expressed opinions on being pro e-bike for the most part , but i admitted in a post above that my exposure is mostly limited to mountain bikers using them for what they're designed for ---- which is riding on real trails and making it easier to get to the top in a downhill area without having to shuttle --- or sweat an hour just for a 10 minute downhill rip
If i was exposed to shenanigans like your scooter example, my opinion would likely be more negative.
I'm hauling my overgrown 29'er BMX bike to a downtown pump track later today though -- i dont often do any urban riding, so i will keep my eye out and see whats going on out there
09-08-22, 03:21 PM
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