How many gears is too many?
11-15-21, 07:48 AM
#101
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Which brings us rather nicely on to the question as to why so many people no longer desire the venerable triple crankset: is it really because of the extra weight and complexity, or is it because of the recently developed "cheap entry-level" stigma that has come to be associated with the triple? A lot of people whose real reason for having gone with 2x and 1x was the latter will readily tell you that they did so because of the former.
Last edited by sjanzeir; 11-15-21 at 08:21 AM.
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11-15-21, 08:05 AM
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11-15-21, 08:09 AM
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11-15-21, 08:14 AM
#104
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11-15-21, 08:16 AM
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11-15-21, 08:19 AM
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11-15-21, 08:24 AM
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Because the shifting in the rear is always better than shifting in the front - it's just the nature of how derailleurs work. A double can be and often is used as basically a 1x with a climbing ring for when you need it, and it tolerates crosschaining very well with a minimum of fuss and trouble. Especially when riding more agressively, I tend to ride like that a lot. That's not ideal with a triple.
A 1x is, well, a 1x, click one way for an easier gear, click the other way for a harder one, what could possibly be more simple? If it satisfies your requirements for range, and the gear ratios are close enough, it's as simple and as uncomplicated as it gets.
If you were to introduce a triple right now, the only selling pitch you could really offer is wider total gear range, but that's really relevant only in very niche applications - for some sort of loaded touring machine, maybe. For general road riding, a compact 50x34 double with a reasonably wide cassette will very rarely leave you lacking the appopriate gear, and for gravel various modern subcompact double options will again do the same. A triple is a lacklustre solution for a problem few people nowadays have, and that's why it has fallen out of favour.
A 1x is, well, a 1x, click one way for an easier gear, click the other way for a harder one, what could possibly be more simple? If it satisfies your requirements for range, and the gear ratios are close enough, it's as simple and as uncomplicated as it gets.
If you were to introduce a triple right now, the only selling pitch you could really offer is wider total gear range, but that's really relevant only in very niche applications - for some sort of loaded touring machine, maybe. For general road riding, a compact 50x34 double with a reasonably wide cassette will very rarely leave you lacking the appopriate gear, and for gravel various modern subcompact double options will again do the same. A triple is a lacklustre solution for a problem few people nowadays have, and that's why it has fallen out of favour.
Last edited by Branko D; 11-15-21 at 08:30 AM.
11-15-21, 08:29 AM
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Which brings us rather nicely on to the question as to why so many people no longer desire the venerable triple crankset: is it really because of the extra weight and complexity, or is it because of the recently developed "cheap entry-level" stigma that has come to be associated with the triple? A lot of people whose real reason for having gone with 2x and 1x was the latter will readily tell you that they did so because of the former.
Triple has so much gear overlap that 1 x 11 or 1 x 12 covers what you need on mountain bikes and 2 x 10 or 2 x 11 covers road/gravel bikes. Too much gear redundancy otherwise with triple.
Last edited by prj71; 11-15-21 at 08:33 AM.
11-15-21, 09:19 AM
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They don't, though. 3 x 9 was popular for a while on hybrids and some MTBs, then the third chainring got deleted and you've got 2x11, 2x12 and even 1x 12 and 1x13.
Running 2 x 11 on the road at the moment, I can certainly see the allure of a 2 x 12 setup; I could have an extra low gear without sacrificing spacing (or anything, really, except a small bit of weight I guess). In many ways it simplifies life; I can do an epic mountaineering tour one day and a fast flat-ish ride on the other all on the same cassette because I don't have to choose between close ratios at tall end of the cassette versus sufficient low gears for steep climbs, I can have both all in one.
If customers were just "more gears better" then you'd see 3 x 12 speed with 36 gears! and that'd be a big selling point. Except, it isn't - nobody really wants a triple up front.
Running 2 x 11 on the road at the moment, I can certainly see the allure of a 2 x 12 setup; I could have an extra low gear without sacrificing spacing (or anything, really, except a small bit of weight I guess). In many ways it simplifies life; I can do an epic mountaineering tour one day and a fast flat-ish ride on the other all on the same cassette because I don't have to choose between close ratios at tall end of the cassette versus sufficient low gears for steep climbs, I can have both all in one.
If customers were just "more gears better" then you'd see 3 x 12 speed with 36 gears! and that'd be a big selling point. Except, it isn't - nobody really wants a triple up front.
YMVV.
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11-15-21, 11:00 AM
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Which brings us rather nicely on to the question as to why so many people no longer desire the venerable triple crankset: is it really because of the extra weight and complexity, or is it because of the recently developed "cheap entry-level" stigma that has come to be associated with the triple? A lot of people whose real reason for having gone with 2x and 1x was the latter will readily tell you that they did so because of the former.
But does anyone really enjoy the feel of a front shift? It's slow, awkward and very occasionally leads to a dropped chain.
Back when cassettes only had a few gears, a triple made sense to get a very wide range if required. But who needs a 3x12 setup? It's the same reason why nobody ever demanded a 4x9.
I'm pretty sure nobody ever chose a 2x or 1x because they thought there was a "stigma" to 3x being "cheap". There are not even many entry level bikes with 3x these days. Newcomers probably don't even know they ever existed.
11-15-21, 12:10 PM
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I have a 3x10 on my gravel bike simply because it is what I had on hand and there is no sense in throwing away something which works without issue (and I wanted to reuse parts and keep the budget down). In the same way I'm not going to rip off the 2x11 from my road bike or TT bike and bin it. That'd be a genuine waste - it works well.
However, if building a bike from the ground up, or buying a new bike, of course I'd go with 2x12 speed which is ever so slightly better.
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11-15-21, 07:13 PM
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11-16-21, 04:24 AM
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Even though I do prefer modern drivetrains (especially 1x on MTBs) I would not convert an older bike either if it was working fine with whatever period drivetrain it had. They all work well, but it doesn't mean there isn't room for future improvement. I fully expect drivetrains in 10 years time to be better than current ones. Same goes for pretty much any tech. Some things move faster than others (eg mobile phones over the last decade) and others move at a snails pace e.g. bicycle drivetrain tech! lol.
11-16-21, 08:20 AM
#114
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11-16-21, 09:21 AM
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I was helping my uncle strip a cotton field many years ago when a skunk got caught and went through the stripper. When you hear someone say, "that job really stinks," I know what they're talking about. 
BTW, It was in west Texas. Not in Louisiana or anywhere close to Texarkana.
BTW, It was in west Texas. Not in Louisiana or anywhere close to Texarkana.
11-16-21, 10:25 AM
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I was helping my uncle strip a cotton field many years ago when a skunk got caught and went through the stripper. When you hear someone say, "that job really stinks," I know what they're talking about.
BTW, It was in west Texas. Not in Louisiana or anywhere close to Texarkana.
BTW, It was in west Texas. Not in Louisiana or anywhere close to Texarkana.
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11-16-21, 12:51 PM
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11-16-21, 01:31 PM
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I'm picturing a belt driven system with pulleys that can increase and decrease their diameter by very small increments.
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11-16-21, 01:33 PM
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More gears definitely has you shifting more often if you're picky about cadence. To me, the wider the range (generally, this means more climbing and descending), the more gears desired.
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11-16-21, 02:18 PM
#120
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I like 7 because of its narrower overall width. This assumes I can set up a triple in front with half step + granny chainrings.
https://sheldonbrown.com/gear-theory.html
https://sheldonbrown.com/gear-theory.html
11-16-21, 02:18 PM
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I just saw an article about a two-speed rear hub with a 12-speed cluster---same weight as a 2x12 system, 24 gear ratios, something like 451% range .... available in multiple ratios, starting with 56-37, 52-36, 50-34 and 48-33.
Apparently a single hub can be used with multiple wheelsets
Not affiliated with the company,. never used the product, don't care if it works, or sells or any of that. Pure information.
https://classified-cycling.cc/en/powershift-hub
Apparently a single hub can be used with multiple wheelsets
Not affiliated with the company,. never used the product, don't care if it works, or sells or any of that. Pure information.
https://classified-cycling.cc/en/powershift-hub
11-16-21, 02:21 PM
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11-16-21, 02:27 PM
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What is the ideal number of gears in rear cassette? 12? 13? 20?
I think the bike industry keeps adding gears as a marketing tool, even if it is at the expense of engineering efficiency. Does anyone agree?
The more gears you add, you (i) lose chain thickness (so faster wear or lower tension limit), (ii) reduce the spoke angle (so less wheel strength) and (iii) maybe get thinner gears (so faster wear?). At what point is it too much?
How do you think this plays out over the coming years? Keep adding gears until there are too many snapped chains or taco'd wheels? I suspect that after 14-15 gears, chains will start to wear out too fast and customers will start complaining, and then they'll go back to 12 or 13 gears.
How do you think this plays out?
Thanks.
I think the bike industry keeps adding gears as a marketing tool, even if it is at the expense of engineering efficiency. Does anyone agree?
The more gears you add, you (i) lose chain thickness (so faster wear or lower tension limit), (ii) reduce the spoke angle (so less wheel strength) and (iii) maybe get thinner gears (so faster wear?). At what point is it too much?
How do you think this plays out over the coming years? Keep adding gears until there are too many snapped chains or taco'd wheels? I suspect that after 14-15 gears, chains will start to wear out too fast and customers will start complaining, and then they'll go back to 12 or 13 gears.
How do you think this plays out?
Thanks.
11-16-21, 03:30 PM
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