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What did you learn from PBP this year - Bike and gear Wise?

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Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

What did you learn from PBP this year - Bike and gear Wise?

Old 12-10-19, 02:29 PM
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morrisond
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What did you learn from PBP this year - Bike and gear Wise?

Hi,

My goal is to do PBP in 2023.

I'll be building a new bike soon and use it for long cycling events building up to 2023. I've averaged 4-6,000 km for the past few years and my longest ride has been 203km which I did in 8:13 moving time and could have gone further at the end. 70km of the 200km was Gravel rail trail.

What was your set-up for 2019? If you are going to do it again and had unlimited budget what would you change - what would the best set-up to get you most comfortably to the finish in the shortest amount of time?

Is the Jan Heine - 650B steel - Centre Pull brake, flexy fork/ front Rando bag/ SON SL Generator system the ultimate or is there a better way?

Battery Lights or Generator Lights?

Aero Bags vs big ass bag out front(Maybe it breaks the wind?)?

Front rack/rear rack?

Disc Brakes with SON-SL hub - but then fork blades need to be 1.1 wall thickness steel and would that would suck from a comfort standpoint?

Gravel bike with huge Seat Bikepacking type Seat Pack and Top tube Bag?


Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 12-10-19, 02:41 PM
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I have 2 good bikes (a Miyata 1000 touring bike with racks, mudguards, dynamo setup etc etc and a very lightweight Trek Emonda SL6 with Di2)

I'm also planning to do PBP next time round

I will most probably use the Trek ... no mudguards, no dynamo lights, but I will travel light with bike packing bags (I already have them .... Miss Grape bags) .... I will use USB lights and charge them with powerbanks)

a long distance ride like PBP and I will want to do it in the best time .... I also run tubeless tyres on both my bikes and will use them, but also carry a spare set of tyres and some tubes just in case
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Old 12-10-19, 05:38 PM
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I think a front rando bag is the best equipment change I have ever made for randonneuring. I have always had a little trouble eating enough, and the bag is very helpful for that. For PBP, there was a layer of food on top of everything else, and I eventually ate almost all of it and had two resupply stops. In 2011, I didn't eat enough in the beginning and really paid for it before the first stop. This time I did great. But that sausage sandwich really hit the spot once I made it to the stop.

I also had a bikepacking bag on the back, and it was full sometimes. The bag itself is not heavy. I had just enough extra clothing that I never got particularly cold. Before the ride, I dumped as much of the spare parts collection as I felt comfortable with. There are bike shops at every control. There is a lot of climbing, you don't really want a heavy bike. And almost all of the roads are pretty nice, so you can get away with a bike with whatever size tires you want.

the weirdest bike problem I saw was someone that had an 11 speed bike with drivetrain problems. The mechanic at St. Nick couldn't cope with it. That's a really bad place to have that problem

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Old 12-10-19, 06:15 PM
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With a longest ride of 200k, I think I would advise not making decisions now based on a ride you are planning in 4 years. There are a lot of great 1200k randonnees in the world that are worth riding. Ride a 1000k or 1200k next year or in 2021. Get a SR series done before you start worrying about a new bike. PBP was my first 1200k. Riding it again after having done some more was a much better experience.

I would say that a light bikepacking bike that can take fenders and lights will be a good buy. In the places where I ride, 32mm tires and fenders are really nice to have. You can make do with bikepacking bags and a handlebar bag. This kind of bike was very common on PBP this year. Except for most people didn't use fenders.

And don't forget that getting in really starts in 2022. I was really happy to be able to preregister in the earliest wave. Other people got in, but their choices of start times were limited
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Old 12-10-19, 07:11 PM
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I echo the sentiment to ride more brevets. I started with an older specialized roubaix and made it work for me. I use a small handlebar bag and a bikepacking seatpack on longer rides. I like my full pickle carradice style bag better but I need to make a DIY bagman to keep it from rubbing on the tire. I use crud racer fenders and they are decent. I wish I could fit 32mm tires but otherwise the roubaix works well for me.

I started out with a heavier steel bike with full fenders but like the racier carbon ride. Dunno what else I'd change but I would ride it again on PBP.
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Old 12-10-19, 10:08 PM
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As a DNFer planning to go again in 2023, my personal lessons:
- be wary of what you put in your mouth
- sleep-banking several days before is king
- now that they are allowing aero bars, aero is king
- a power meter can really help with pacing
- I can probably junk more than half the crap I carried and lose a significant amount of weight - I don't need two complete changes of clothes, I probably don't need to carry the extra torque wrench, and a whole ton of other "necessities"
- I may want to experiment with carrying a sleeping bag and/or bivy

Obviously those are my personal takeaways based on my own riding style and goals, which may differ so take with a grain of salt.


What was your set-up for 2019? If you are going to do it again and had unlimited budget what would you change - what would the best set-up to get you most comfortably to the finish in the shortest amount of time?
Going aero would be what I'd do for my own personal setup. Aero bike (my Fuji Transonic is good enough, but if money were no object I might go Trek Madone or Cervelo S5). Profile Design aerobars. Aero jersey.

Battery Lights or Generator Lights?
Battery for me. My current light, the Cateye 1700, can theoretically last 15 hours at low power (which is already quite plenty at 200 lumens). Add a spare battery, and two slim-n-light 10,000mAh powerbanks and I'm good to go.

Aero Bags vs big ass bag out front(Maybe it breaks the wind?)?
I ride a small frame, so choices are super limited for me. I go with a large seat pack and a top tube bag. But personally if I were physically larger and rode a bigger bike, I'd go for a frame bag, top tube bag, and a smaller seat pack but alas... physical limitations. I avoid handlebar bags for several reasons - aero, blocks all my gadgets, affects handling - but I acknowledge they have their advantages too (e.g. easy access to gear).

Any advice would be appreciated.
You have 3+ years. Ride what you're setting up to ride now, and make adjustments along the way to fit your needs and riding style. The bike is just half the equation. Nutrition and hydration strategy is also important to dial down, along with knowing your limits (e.g. how far you can go without sleep, how long you can stay seated before your bum starts to complain, etc), and then formulating your ride strategy around your strengths and weaknesses.

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Old 12-10-19, 10:12 PM
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I've got lots of bikes to play with and have been using a Salsa Warbird with 38mm Compass Barlow Pass I've Ben using - but my son needs a new bike so Dad is going to replace it with something new.

If if you were going to build/buy a new Rando rig from scratch what would you do? I'm in Ontario so fenders are basically a must and will be looking to do some of the rides south of the border.

I enjoy rail trails and gravel as well but no mud. I tried P2A this year and hated the mud part.
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Old 12-10-19, 11:34 PM
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I think someone else can answer the specific bike question better, but regardless of bike I think what's more important is that the bike fits, is comfortable, and is what you will enjoy riding for several days in a row. Because that's what you'll be doing - riding 2-3 days in a row.
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Old 12-11-19, 12:05 AM
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I didn't ride it this year, but PBP 2015 taught me a couple things that I incorporated into my bike shortly thereafter.

- Battery lights can be great, but not having to worry about how much charge I have left is even better. I get "charge anxiety" with battery lights, and it was a source of stress I didn't need when my headlight started to die going into Dreux. And then I found out that I had packed the wrong type of USB cable to connect to my portable charger.

- Don't make the bike heavier or harder to ride than necessary. My fully-loaded bike weighed at least 35 lbs, and the tires I chose may have added hours to the time it took to complete the ride, according to Bicycle Quarterly.

When I got home, I built a lighter wheelset including a dynohub. That, along with much faster tires and sensible weight reductions elsewhere, have made this bike a joy to ride. If there's anything I wish I had done from the start, it's that I had had generator lighting!

PBP 2015 was such a mixed bag of good fortune, and head-slapping bad choices. Thankfully, I was too stupid to quit, and that's what got me through the whole thing. I'd like to think that I can do a lot of things better in 2023, and I'm looking at the 84-hour group next time.
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Old 12-11-19, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
With a longest ride of 200k, I think I would advise not making decisions now based on a ride you are planning in 4 years. There are a lot of great 1200k randonnees in the world that are worth riding. Ride a 1000k or 1200k next year or in 2021. Get a SR series done before you start worrying about a new bike. PBP was my first 1200k. Riding it again after having done some more was a much better experience.
+1

When I started, I rode a 200 km with the idea that if it went well, I'd ride a 300 km.
Then if that went well, I'd ride the 400 km. Etc.

I learned what worked as I went along and increased my distances.

Thing is ... 200 km wasn't much different than the centuries I had been doing. My 300 km wasn't actually much different than my 200 km ... just a bit longer. But the 400 km was different because it involved night riding. And the 600 km was a whole lot different. I struggle with 600 kms.
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Old 12-11-19, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka
+1

When I started, I rode a 200 km with the idea that if it went well, I'd ride a 300 km.
Then if that went well, I'd ride the 400 km. Etc.

I learned what worked as I went along and increased my distances.

Thing is ... 200 km wasn't much different than the centuries I had been doing. My 300 km wasn't actually much different than my 200 km ... just a bit longer. But the 400 km was different because it involved night riding. And the 600 km was a whole lot different. I struggle with 600 kms.
i get it and that's what I plan to do.

However if you had to buy a new bike anyways - I won't have a endurance/gravel like bike as I would be giving mine to my son - would you go more traditional with generator (Jan Heine) or Modern Gravel/endurance with batteries.


Basically is Jan Heine right?

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Old 12-11-19, 03:16 AM
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I went with a custom Marinoni sport touring bicycle and followed it up with a titanium of similar measurements.

But in my first two years of Randonneuring, I rode a Giant OCR3.
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Old 12-11-19, 12:08 PM
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I have dynohubs on all of my bikes, commuter, mtb, fatbike, gravel bike, road bike. They all have dyno powered headlights and taillights. For people that don't know what they want and ask in this forum, I usually recommend a lightweight gravel/adventure bike. I don't think I would recommend a 650b classical randonneur unless you really like that style. One of the big advantages of dyno lights is you don't have to test them to see how long the batteries actually last. More all-road bikes are coming with provisions for wiring a dynohub, fenders, and mounting things to the fork. It's not fully ideal, but you can make it work
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Old 12-11-19, 12:26 PM
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I have(had it's going to my son - Salsa Warbird Carbon) the All-Road/Gravel bike. I'm just wondering if I should get another. It's seems like the 650B Rando bike would do everything I need it too.

I also have a Surly Disc Trucker as my winter bike - and I quite like it but at 27lbs all in it sure doesn't feel that fast.

I'm not a huge fan of the out front Rando bag - that seems like a lot of extra drag.

Do you use the SON-SL system? Isn't it a lot more reliable but basically impossible to implement in anything other than a Steel fork?
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Old 12-11-19, 12:32 PM
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a front bag doesn't really generate much drag at all. your body is a big flat plate behind it, so that air is going to be stopped anyway. Jan Heine did testing in a wind tunnel. You probably would reduce the drag more by shaving your legs.

I'm not really trying to steer you one way or another. I like to have a gravel bike with big tires that I can ride rando events on. I rode my gravel bike on this year's 600k, and that was nice because the roads in New Jersey can be horrible. I have a front rando rack on that bike, it mounts at the fork crown and the dropouts. My road bike is a 700c rando style bike, it's very nice. Fairly light steel frame, lots of rake in the fork, plenty of clearance for 32mm tires and fenders.

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Old 12-11-19, 12:54 PM
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I have never ridden PBP and probably never will. But I enjoyed watching the videos from this guy. He had a long series of videos with recommendations and suggestions on getting ready for PBP.
https://www.youtube.com/user/campyonlyguy/featured

Here is his first one of the series.

Your questions are really hardware oriented. Is that because you are about to receive your dream bike from Santa? If so, that explains the focus on hardware. That series of videos is not very hardware oriented, thus they will not answer many of your current questions. And he was highly opinionated on the hardware aspects in his videos, I suspect some of his hardware opinions are minority opinions. I personally would not want to ride his bike in a long event.

If your focus on hardware is because you need to get your Santa list ready really fast, maybe set aside the videos until you are stuck indoors during a blizzard.
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Old 12-11-19, 01:05 PM
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That Singer he has is really nice (pronounced sanjay, not like the sewing machine company.
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Old 12-11-19, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
That Singer he has is really nice (pronounced sanjay, not like the sewing machine company.
I totally agree it is a nice bike, very beautiful, but I hate friction downtube shifter for the rear.

I have a downtube shifter for the front on the bike I use for randos, I recently posted a photo at this link that shows the front part of mine, but I really want an indexed shifter in the rear.
https://www.bikeforums.net/21240516-post5.html

I have a 1961 or 1962 Italian Columbus tubing bike that rides really nice, I upgraded to clinchers and a triple in front for wider gearing, but it has friction front and rear. I did not ride if for a single mile this year.
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Old 12-11-19, 02:55 PM
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Yes - Santa is bringing me a new bike - I just have to help Santa figure out what Santa wants.

I have built so many different bikes over the past 15 years - I would prefer to get this one right.

Maybe this is a better question - Is there anyone who has a built a low trail 650b Jan Heine bike and regretted it?

I have brand new in the Box Last Gen Record 11sp Medium Rd and FD as well as a set of H11 brakes (which are brilliant), a Record 1-1/8 Headset, and also Campy CX brakes.
I kind of like Campy parts if you haven't figured that out yet.

I would love to use the H11 Disc Brakes but that means 1.1 wall fork Blades so I can use a gen hub or a Carbon Fork that has internal wiring for Generator Hub but then I can't use SON SL system.

Long distance you don't use brakes that much so I'm not that fussed on keeping disc - but would probably use Compass Centrepull brakes instead of having to screw around with Campy CX Cantilevers.

Has anyone done a 1.1 wall Steel Disc fork? How did it ride?
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Old 12-11-19, 03:56 PM
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Be forewarned that you are likely to change your mind about some things in the next 3 years. No matter how much research you do now, you may want something different as PBP 2023 nears. There is an old saying along the lines of, the purpose of each new bike is to help you understand what you want out of your next bike. So what you get for Christmas this year might not be The One.

And yes, there are people who've tried low-trail and found that it wasn't for them. A couple folks are vocal about it in the 650B Google group. A buddy of mine built up an early Trek and got scared on the test ride by how "unstable" it felt.
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Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
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Old 12-11-19, 07:32 PM
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I use a dill pickle handlebar bag and it's much smaller than the traditional boxy type. It holds enough stuff for me on 200/300k rides and is nicely supplemented with a medium or large saddlebag on longer rides. It's nice to leave the big bags at home on a supported 600 with a good forecast.

I haven't tried a traditional rando rig so I can't really offer an opinion but I dunno where you'd get one off the shelf in time for Christmas this year.

I think if I upgraded I'd get a fuji jari or trek domane since they can handle fenders and wide tires. I've been thinking about a low trail bike but really don't know what I'm missing.
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Old 12-11-19, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by morrisond
Long distance you don't use brakes that much
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

But on a more serious note... the most "fun" descent I had while randonneuring was a 40km descent from about 1400m elevation. In the rain. On rim brake carbon wheels.

The second-most "fun" descent was 30km from about 800m. Only drizzling this time, but in total darkness.

Fun times.
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Old 12-11-19, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by morrisond
Basically is Jan Heine right?
He probably is for the style of riding he is doing. But there are many more options out there that work just fine. What matters most is in your head, not under you (as long as that one fits perfectly).

I did pretty well this year on a Heine-ized adventure/endurance/light gravel bike: Carbon frame, road geometry, 32mm high-quality tires, full metal fenders, handlebar, top tube and small seat bags, dynamo (front) light and phone charger. Would not skip the dynamo.

My biggest lesson learned was how much mental preparation makes a difference. Dedication, experience, anticipation, willpower, appreciation...
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Old 12-12-19, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by clasher
I use a dill pickle handlebar bag and it's much smaller than the traditional boxy type. It holds enough stuff for me on 200/300k rides and is nicely supplemented with a medium or large saddlebag on longer rides. It's nice to leave the big bags at home on a supported 600 with a good forecast.

I haven't tried a traditional rando rig so I can't really offer an opinion but I dunno where you'd get one off the shelf in time for Christmas this year.

I think if I upgraded I'd get a fuji jari or trek domane since they can handle fenders and wide tires. I've been thinking about a low trail bike but really don't know what I'm missing.
+1 for my Dill Pickle handlebar bag. All my lessons learned on PBP were, uh, not bike-related. The bag did great; it was chock full of snacks so that I didn't have to worry about finding places to get food on the first night (especially since I'm vegetarian; the first not-a-control rest stop didn't have anything vegetarian in the outdoor/quick food line.) And I only had a small (dill pickle small, which is maybe medium sized by most standards) bag on the back for PBP, but I also had drop bags -- the rear bag had everything I hoped not to touch: tubes, tools, spare batteries, etc. The front bag had everything I expected to use.

A third water bottle might have been nice on some of the super-hot qualifying rides I did, but I didn't need it on PBP.
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Old 12-12-19, 12:38 PM
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Did you read the article about Jan's PBP bike in BQ#69? I'm sure it's great, but I would have a hard time justifying that kind of money when much less expensive options are perfectly adequate. A bike like Jan's is easily double the cost of the most expensive warbird.
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