Pulling and reinstalling BB30 bearings???
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Montréal
Posts: 18
Bikes: 2017 Specialized Roubaix COMP Di2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Pulling and reinstalling BB30 bearings???
Hey guys... Having a crankset creak and I'm really lead to believe the bearings are moving in the BB cups (Praxis BSA threaded M30). They turn very smoothly with fingers.
I would want to pull them, clean and Loctite them back in using 609. I think the most gentle way to get them out would be to use a puller that grabs from behind the inner races.
Of course this can't be good for the bearings but any of you has ever done that and gotten away with it without ruining the bearings? No idea how tightly they are pressed in now...
Not sure if only allowing penetrating oil (Kroil) to seep in around the outer races could confirm my diagnosis...
This would be a first step in trying to be methodical and really pinpoint the source of the creak without blindly swapping things out and potentially wasting $.
Thanks for your input!
I would want to pull them, clean and Loctite them back in using 609. I think the most gentle way to get them out would be to use a puller that grabs from behind the inner races.
Of course this can't be good for the bearings but any of you has ever done that and gotten away with it without ruining the bearings? No idea how tightly they are pressed in now...
Not sure if only allowing penetrating oil (Kroil) to seep in around the outer races could confirm my diagnosis...
This would be a first step in trying to be methodical and really pinpoint the source of the creak without blindly swapping things out and potentially wasting $.
Thanks for your input!
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Eastern Poland
Posts: 743
Bikes: Romet Jubilat x 4, Wigry x 1, Turing x 1
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked 204 Times
in
151 Posts
That is a pretty big first step.
It may not be the crankset, but something like the seat stem or steering for example. Without knowing more about the diagnosis it is hard to say - but examining them would be cheaper and potentially more cost effective because noise can be a hard thing to be traced as it can be transmitted through metal, for example.
It may not be the crankset, but something like the seat stem or steering for example. Without knowing more about the diagnosis it is hard to say - but examining them would be cheaper and potentially more cost effective because noise can be a hard thing to be traced as it can be transmitted through metal, for example.
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Montréal
Posts: 18
Bikes: 2017 Specialized Roubaix COMP Di2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yeah, aware that noises travel a lot (esp. with carbon frame), I should have mentioned that I strongly believe I have exhausted the other sources... I could have missed one, ain't perfect but for now, I'm really down to the BB area...
Just unsure how "badly" or not I could be damaging the bearings by doing that...
Just unsure how "badly" or not I could be damaging the bearings by doing that...
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,767
Bikes: lots
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1958 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times
in
1,489 Posts
You could easily ruin them. You want to remove them by pulling, not hammering. A threaded puller would be the safest. I wouldn't use Loctite to install them, I'd grease the crap outta the frame then install...
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times
in
741 Posts
If you either pull or drive out the bearings, do it by the outer race. As you noted, pulling on the inner race will not be good for the bearings (read: will ruin). Only do this if you have replacements ready to install. Also, seat the new bearings by pressing on the outer race.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,848
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2302 Post(s)
Liked 2,737 Times
in
1,497 Posts
this seems to be overkill and chance of goofing the BB up. Why not just replace the BB if you are sure that is the issue, it is not like this is a pressfit into the BB bearing
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Likes For squirtdad:
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Montréal
Posts: 18
Bikes: 2017 Specialized Roubaix COMP Di2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
That's the thing, all components seem fine... I just took it all apart again a hour ago... Cleaned and re-greased crank spindle, unscrewed, recoated and properly torqued both BB cups, carefully turned both bearings with fingers listening and trying to feel any roughness...
Took both chain rings off, cleaned them and spider, greased and properly torqued bolts too...
I'm afraid to swap good parts for good parts!
Took it for a ride... ABSOLUTELY no change...
Apart from bearings possibly moving around in the cups OR a Praxis crank arm acting up... I'm out of ideas...
Seat post? I honestly didn't take it out... But it creaks off the saddle too...
What annoys me is that I can get it to creak off the bike with my bare hands by forcing on both crank arms in opposite direction (bearings barely moving/rotating)... It can make a quite strong single or few "Ticks"...
I can't grab the bearings by the outer race to pull them out of the cups... So it seems everyone agrees pulling them out by the inner race will ruin them (as I thought). I guess the only way to verify my theory is to press in new bearings with 609.
Thanks again
Took both chain rings off, cleaned them and spider, greased and properly torqued bolts too...
I'm afraid to swap good parts for good parts!
Took it for a ride... ABSOLUTELY no change...
Apart from bearings possibly moving around in the cups OR a Praxis crank arm acting up... I'm out of ideas...
Seat post? I honestly didn't take it out... But it creaks off the saddle too...
What annoys me is that I can get it to creak off the bike with my bare hands by forcing on both crank arms in opposite direction (bearings barely moving/rotating)... It can make a quite strong single or few "Ticks"...
I can't grab the bearings by the outer race to pull them out of the cups... So it seems everyone agrees pulling them out by the inner race will ruin them (as I thought). I guess the only way to verify my theory is to press in new bearings with 609.
Thanks again
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,319
Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1438 Post(s)
Liked 1,092 Times
in
723 Posts
Before you put bearings in with high-strength Loctite 609, you might want to read the data sheet: https://tds.henkel.com/tds5/Studio/Sh...EN&plant=WERCS
Which states:
"For Disassembly
1. Apply localized heat to the assembly to approximately 250 °C. Disassemble while hot."
250 °C is about 480 °F. It sounds like it might be difficult to get them back out again.
Which states:
"For Disassembly
1. Apply localized heat to the assembly to approximately 250 °C. Disassemble while hot."
250 °C is about 480 °F. It sounds like it might be difficult to get them back out again.
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Montréal
Posts: 18
Bikes: 2017 Specialized Roubaix COMP Di2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I had not gone that far in my research yet... I just keep reading it's the proper "adhesive" for pressfit bearings... You are right, 250°C is damn hot!
This is why I'm far from rushing things... Want to make an informed decision!
Thanks for pointing this out... I would have found out just before buying it cuz the datasheet is the last thing I would have checked!
This is why I'm far from rushing things... Want to make an informed decision!
Thanks for pointing this out... I would have found out just before buying it cuz the datasheet is the last thing I would have checked!
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,848
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2302 Post(s)
Liked 2,737 Times
in
1,497 Posts
That's the thing, all components seem fine... I just took it all apart again a hour ago... Cleaned and re-greased crank spindle, unscrewed, recoated and properly torqued both BB cups, carefully turned both bearings with fingers listening and trying to feel any roughness...
Took both chain rings off, cleaned them and spider, greased and properly torqued bolts too...
I'm afraid to swap good parts for good parts!
Took it for a ride... ABSOLUTELY no change...
Apart from bearings possibly moving around in the cups OR a Praxis crank arm acting up... I'm out of ideas...
Seat post? I honestly didn't take it out... But it creaks off the saddle too...
What annoys me is that I can get it to creak off the bike with my bare hands by forcing on both crank arms in opposite direction (bearings barely moving/rotating)... It can make a quite strong single or few "Ticks"...
I can't grab the bearings by the outer race to pull them out of the cups... So it seems everyone agrees pulling them out by the inner race will ruin them (as I thought). I guess the only way to verify my theory is to press in new bearings with 609.
Thanks again
Took both chain rings off, cleaned them and spider, greased and properly torqued bolts too...
I'm afraid to swap good parts for good parts!
Took it for a ride... ABSOLUTELY no change...
Apart from bearings possibly moving around in the cups OR a Praxis crank arm acting up... I'm out of ideas...
Seat post? I honestly didn't take it out... But it creaks off the saddle too...
What annoys me is that I can get it to creak off the bike with my bare hands by forcing on both crank arms in opposite direction (bearings barely moving/rotating)... It can make a quite strong single or few "Ticks"...
I can't grab the bearings by the outer race to pull them out of the cups... So it seems everyone agrees pulling them out by the inner race will ruin them (as I thought). I guess the only way to verify my theory is to press in new bearings with 609.
Thanks again
Any way you look at it your are going to destroy the BB and the bearings so I don't know why you seem to be heck bent on doing something to the bearings that shouldn't be done
this is not like a pressfit bb30 bb
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
#11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Montréal
Posts: 18
Bikes: 2017 Specialized Roubaix COMP Di2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I fully understand what you mean and you are right... It is simple to unscrew the old cup/bearing and screw the new in... 100% agreed.
Praxis sell what they call "rebuilding bearing kits" for their BB where you have the choice between steel and ceramic bearings... This tells me that there is an intention of being able to replace the bearings in the design, no?
I would ruin the bearings by pulling them out but it doesn't necessarily mean I would destroy the cups if done carefully with the proper tools... I suppose they must have designed them to be able to press in better quality bearings (if wanted)...
Like I said the bearings feel so smooth... Very hard to imagine they'd be done plus my hand forcing the crank arms can't be enough for the bearings to move in the cups (the spindle barely even rotates)... Think I've invalidated my theory just by doing that!
Now afraid the crank arm/spider/spindle interface is the culprit...
I started this thread to get you guys' opinion on the bearings' condition after pulling them out by the inner races... Pretty sure we all agree they'd be ruined.
Thanks!
Praxis sell what they call "rebuilding bearing kits" for their BB where you have the choice between steel and ceramic bearings... This tells me that there is an intention of being able to replace the bearings in the design, no?
I would ruin the bearings by pulling them out but it doesn't necessarily mean I would destroy the cups if done carefully with the proper tools... I suppose they must have designed them to be able to press in better quality bearings (if wanted)...
Like I said the bearings feel so smooth... Very hard to imagine they'd be done plus my hand forcing the crank arms can't be enough for the bearings to move in the cups (the spindle barely even rotates)... Think I've invalidated my theory just by doing that!
Now afraid the crank arm/spider/spindle interface is the culprit...
I started this thread to get you guys' opinion on the bearings' condition after pulling them out by the inner races... Pretty sure we all agree they'd be ruined.
Thanks!
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,337
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2432 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times
in
395 Posts
I have much experience with BB30's. The first set on my bike creaked bad brand new. I destroyed the bearings trying to get them out. Bought new ones and the proper removal tool, the cheap $10 one in the picture below and installed them with locktite. The second set of bearings never did spin smooth nor could I get the cranks torqued perfectly and I learned it was because I installed them incorrectly, they weren't flush with the c-clips and were at a slight angle. But they were quiet because I used locktite.
I ended up buying a new carbon crankset and it came with new bearings. I installed them correctly with grease only and they're dead silent. This is how I did it:
The removal tool sucked because you have to put a rod against it and and it slips off with each blow. Since they were locktited I could not get them out.
I knew they were going in the trash so I removed them this way: Removed the c-clips from the inside. Got a punch and just hammered them out, after a couple of blows they popped out.
When I installed the new bearings I put them in the freezer first to shrink them. Then I packed the shell with grease, heated it up with my heat gun then CAREFULLY seated the bearing in the shell by hand perfectly even all the way around. Then I lightly tapped it by hammer with a rubber coated flat handle of my chain whip. Tap it very lightly all the way around so it doesn't go in canted and get stuck. After the outer surface of the bearing was flush with the shell I put my removal tool on it and with one hammer blow pushed it all the way against the c-clip. The whole process only took about 10 minutes and it is perfect now. No creaks with grease only. Sounds complicated but it really isn't.
Be advised that you only use a punch to get them out if you are not going to reuse them because it will destroy them. But if they're locktited it you don't have much choice. And I only use the removal tool to install them and push them all the way inside. Now that I know the process I don't have a problem with BB30. I do believe not all bearings are equal with the correct tolerances because mine creaked when the bike was new and my new bearings do not creak.
I ended up buying a new carbon crankset and it came with new bearings. I installed them correctly with grease only and they're dead silent. This is how I did it:
The removal tool sucked because you have to put a rod against it and and it slips off with each blow. Since they were locktited I could not get them out.
I knew they were going in the trash so I removed them this way: Removed the c-clips from the inside. Got a punch and just hammered them out, after a couple of blows they popped out.
When I installed the new bearings I put them in the freezer first to shrink them. Then I packed the shell with grease, heated it up with my heat gun then CAREFULLY seated the bearing in the shell by hand perfectly even all the way around. Then I lightly tapped it by hammer with a rubber coated flat handle of my chain whip. Tap it very lightly all the way around so it doesn't go in canted and get stuck. After the outer surface of the bearing was flush with the shell I put my removal tool on it and with one hammer blow pushed it all the way against the c-clip. The whole process only took about 10 minutes and it is perfect now. No creaks with grease only. Sounds complicated but it really isn't.
Be advised that you only use a punch to get them out if you are not going to reuse them because it will destroy them. But if they're locktited it you don't have much choice. And I only use the removal tool to install them and push them all the way inside. Now that I know the process I don't have a problem with BB30. I do believe not all bearings are equal with the correct tolerances because mine creaked when the bike was new and my new bearings do not creak.
Last edited by Lazyass; 06-30-21 at 03:11 AM.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Golden, CO and Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,822
Bikes: 2016 Fuji Tread, 1983 Trek 520
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 669 Post(s)
Liked 725 Times
in
422 Posts
Have you verified the threaded cup/BB shell interface is clean and tight? Refaced the shell?
#14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Montréal
Posts: 18
Bikes: 2017 Specialized Roubaix COMP Di2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I've thoroughly cleaned it, coated with anti-seize as per Praxis' procedure. Cups feel threading in smoothly without any binding while not feeling sloppy or loose... I have not faced the shell. Cups visually appear to make proper, even contact (all around) with the shell.
Nothing seems distorted at all, I see nothing that could allow the cups to flex or move (causing noise) plus the anti-seize coating is everywhere... I think it couldn't allow to produce the sharp "tick" sounds I have... Don't know how to word it but sounds "dry" !!!
Nothing seems distorted at all, I see nothing that could allow the cups to flex or move (causing noise) plus the anti-seize coating is everywhere... I think it couldn't allow to produce the sharp "tick" sounds I have... Don't know how to word it but sounds "dry" !!!