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Is it normal for LBS to put tubes in tubeless tires with a new tubeless wheelset?

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Is it normal for LBS to put tubes in tubeless tires with a new tubeless wheelset?

Old 07-12-21, 03:01 PM
  #1  
Squeeze
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Is it normal for LBS to put tubes in tubeless tires with a new tubeless wheelset?

I will probably call or stop by the LBS to ask about this, but that won't change the past. And, I need to learn how to mount tubeless tires by myself anyway. I just want to ask if this is normal. I'm thinking that, being new to tubeless tires, I may have made incorrect assumptions how tubeless wheels and tires are usually set up for a customer.

I had a stock/original rear wheel go out of round after a particularly jarring fast ride down a hill on some washboard terrain on dirt. I figured it was a sign that I should get a better wheelset for a new-to-me bike that I really like and want to keep for a long time. So, I went to the LBS and explained I was ready to try tubeless on a bike I ride mostly on gravel. We decided on 700 x 42 tubeless-ready tires and tubeless-compatible wheels. I'd mention which ones but I can't find the email the LBS sent me with the detailed work order.

I may have accidentally deleted the email, and that's the biggest reason I haven't called the LBS yet to say, "Now, see here..."

When I picked up the bike, I reminded the LBS owner that this would be my first time with tubeless and asked him to recommend a patch kit. He handed me one and pointed out the bottom of the patch kit carrying case was a wrench to remove the valve cores. He told me to add more sealant every four or five months and said not to go over 60 psi so I don't blow the tires off the wheels.

Yesterday I was out for a ride and ran over some small vegetation covering part of the trail. I heard a POP and then PSSSSHHHHHH from the front tire and found some dreaded Colorado goathead thorns in both tires. I haven't been bothered with those since I started using heavy-duty tubes on my other bikes. Anyway, I removed all the thorns I could see but the front tire was obviously low on air.

I pumped it up and spun the tire to help slosh the sealant around in there to fill the hole(s) but after a long time doing this, the tire just wouldn't hold air. I noticed the seal between tire and rim was broken and looked inside. I saw no evidence of white sealant so I started removing the tire with tire levers and saw a tube inside the tire. By this time, I realized the rear tire was flat also. I had one spare tube and the glue was missing from my patch kit, so I made "the call of shame" and my wife picked me up.

What's done is done and I don't want to cause a stir at the LBS if I just didn't understand their work order (which again, I can't find now), but I thought maybe you folks might have some input, whether caveat emptor or "that's outrageous!"

Thanks.
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Old 07-12-21, 03:07 PM
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It sounds like a major miscommunication. Likely too many cooks. Why would they sell you a bunch of tubeless supplies and put in a tube?

Hopefully they can give you the valve, and anything else you will need for the conversion.
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Old 07-12-21, 03:39 PM
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Obviously too late to help you in this case, but with a tubeless setup, the valve will be secured to the rim by a fairly beefy nut. These are heavier than the ones that are packaged with innertubes, and have some kind of wrench flats because they need to be tight.

If you see a wheel without said nut, or with one that looks like a finger-tightened innertube nut, then the wheel is not set up tubeless.
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Old 07-12-21, 03:49 PM
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If the wheels were set up with tubes the LBS removed the tubeless valves. As Adam noted, they are distinctive in size and shape. Did they give them to you with the wheels? If not you must get them for any future tubeless installation.
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Old 07-12-21, 04:22 PM
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Thanks, gents. No, I didn't get tubeless valves. And I realized what Adam said while I was trying to re-inflate the front tire. After I had started pumping, I remember thinking "these look like regular Presta valves."

I haven't examined any up close, but I do know that tubeless setups require different, separate valves. I didn't think to look for those on the bike when I picked it up - I guess I was too impressed with the new wheels and tires and handlebars and shiny clean drivetrain and so forth.

Originally Posted by adamrice
...with a tubeless setup, the valve will be secured to the rim by a fairly beefy nut. These are heavier than the ones that are packaged with innertubes, and have some kind of wrench flats because they need to be tight.
Is it wise to carry a wrench for the valves on long rides? I plan to continue carrying a spare tube and patch kit and tire levers. Seems to me, if I had a really bad puncture that sealant won't fix, I would need to remove the tubeless valve in order to use a regular tube.

I just called the LBS and left a message. Naturally, they're closed on Mondays.

I suspect it is as Clifford suggested - a miscommunication, combined with beginner's ignorance on my part.

Thanks for your replies!
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Old 07-12-21, 04:29 PM
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Yeah, no surprise that you wouldn't notice it. If you're expecting them to deliver it tubeless, you'd need to be suspicious to look for something amiss. Not like they had Schraeder valves mounted.

Is it wise to carry a wrench for the valves on long rides? I plan to continue carrying a spare tube and patch kit and tire levers. Seems to me, if I had a really bad puncture that sealant won't fix, I would need to remove the tubeless valve in order to use a regular tube.
Yes. Some multi-tools may have a box wrench that will fit some nuts, and I've seen valve kits that are sold with their own wrenches built into valve caps, or big wingnut-style nuts, so you don't need another tool. I carry a minuscule Leatherman-style multi-tool (Gerber Dime) that should do the trick.
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Old 07-12-21, 04:55 PM
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I agree that it sounds like miscommunication. The shop will probably have a record of what you bought and what they were supposed to do. Tubeless ready rims do not always (normally?) come with valves and tape. The shop I'm most familiar with charges $20+ per wheel to set up tubeless. That may include sealant. If it turns out you did not pay for tubeless set up, I'd suggest you get what you need and learn to DIY. It's not rocket surgery, just another maintenance task all riders should be able to do for themselves.
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Old 07-12-21, 06:30 PM
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... I went to the LBS and explained I was ready to try tubeless on a bike I ride mostly on gravel. We decided on 700 x 42 tubeless-ready tires and tubeless-compatible wheels. ....

...When I picked up the bike, I reminded the LBS owner that this would be my first time with tubeless and asked him to recommend a patch kit. He handed me one and pointed out the bottom of the patch kit carrying case was a wrench to remove the valve cores. He told me to add more sealant every four or five months and said not to go over 60 psi so I don't blow the tires off the wheels.
OK, I'm going to stir the you-know-what a bit. You went to an LBS instead of embarking on the research and didn't have the know how to do it yourself. Please understand, this is not a criticism on my part, but just to say that I will assume you paid more for this set up than you would have had you spent the time and effort to do it yourself. A fair exchange, had they given you what you paid for.

You reasonably expected expertise and you were willing to pay for it to get the job done right with a minimum of hassle and uncertainty on your part. And, you clearly explained your goal at the beginning, and you again clearly when you picked it up.

I feel you were very poorly served and actually misled when you picked up the wheels. There was an actual cost to you of their poor service, maybe not in terms of money, but in terms of objective, significant avoidable hassle to you and your rescuer. You will need to deal with them as your personality sees fit, but anger would be a reasonable response. This is just a very incompetent, poor service by the company and they need to make it right and in some way compensate you for their misleading you and the significant cost / hassle you experienced on the trail. In no way did they give you what you paid for and would reasonably expect. I would be pissed if they turned around and charged me anything to properly set up the wheels and tires tubeless, including giving you some free sealant for future use.

I won't call them a poor excuse for a shop or that they ripped you off, but it's close, imho. But an example of why LBS's aren't always worth what they and their supporters claim.

Last edited by Camilo; 07-12-21 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 07-12-21, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Camilo
OK, I'm going to stir the you-know-what a bit. You went to an LBS instead of embarking on the research and didn't have the know how to do it yourself. Please understand, this is not a criticism on my part, but just to say that I will assume you paid more for this set up than you would have had you spent the time and effort to do it yourself. A fair exchange, had they given you what you paid for.

You reasonably expected expertise and you were willing to pay for it to get the job done right with a minimum of hassle and uncertainty on your part. And, you clearly explained your goal at the beginning, and you again clearly when you picked it up.

I feel you were very poorly served and actually misled when you picked up the wheels. There was an actual cost to you of their poor service, maybe not in terms of money, but in terms of objective, significant avoidable hassle to you and your rescuer. You will need to deal with them as your personality sees fit, but anger would be a reasonable response. This is just a very incompetent, poor service by the company and they need to make it right and in some way compensate you for their misleading you and the significant cost / hassle you experienced on the trail. In no way did they give you what you paid for and would reasonably expect. I would be pissed if they turned around and charged me anything to properly set up the wheels and tires tubeless, including giving you some free sealant for future use.

I won't call them a poor excuse for a shop or that they ripped you off, but it's close, imho. But an example of why LBS's aren't always worth what they and their supporters claim.
You realize you have only heard one side of the story and don't know what is true or not true. I am not calling the OP a liar but since we only have one side of the story we may not want to pass judgement on the LBS.

If you didn't pay for a tubeless set up then nothing to complain about, if you did pay for a full tubeless set up and all the parts to go along with it including valves, tape and sealant and none of that was installed then I would head back down and have them complete the job. The receipt will tell us and you quite a bit about what happened. Most wheels including stuff that is tubeless ready from the factory comes with tubes installed because guess what a bike that sits for a while in different changing conditions with fluid inside is likely to leak and make a mess and you don't want a tubeless mess on your brand new bike out of the box.
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Old 07-12-21, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Camilo
OK, I'm going to stir the you-know-what a bit. You went to an LBS instead of embarking on the research and didn't have the know how to do it yourself.
Nothing wrong with purchasing through a bike shop. Without someone supporting them, they'd all be Walmarts. Some brands prefer selling through the bike shops, although a few products leak through E-Bay and Amazon (with less continuing support than a neighborhood bike shop).

But, somewhere there was a miscommunication.

I can't believe a shop would sell tubeless tires, tubeless rims, tubeless sealant, etc... and not expect it to be configured tubeless.

We don't know if valves, rimtape, tubes, etc were also sold.

My guess is the salesman wrote up and order and gave it to a technician, and somewhere the order got garbled.

Nonetheless, it is nothing that can't be fixed. Perhaps even add a patch to the inside of the tire at the same time.
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Old 07-12-21, 11:59 PM
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Someone spaced. Give them a chance to make it right. I'd be extremely apologetic if you were my customer and would probably offer to waive service fees for the tubeless setup.
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Old 07-13-21, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
You realize you have only heard one side of the story and don't know what is true or not true. I am not calling the OP a liar but since we only have one side of the story we may not want to pass judgement on the LBS.

If you didn't pay for a tubeless set up then nothing to complain about, if you did pay for a full tubeless set up and all the parts to go along with it including valves, tape and sealant and none of that was installed then I would head back down and have them complete the job. The receipt will tell us and you quite a bit about what happened. Most wheels including stuff that is tubeless ready from the factory comes with tubes installed because guess what a bike that sits for a while in different changing conditions with fluid inside is likely to leak and make a mess and you don't want a tubeless mess on your brand new bike out of the box.
You're absolutely right, we don't know both sides of the story or what he actually paid for

However, unless the op is a liar (an assumption i would not make), he DID tell them he wanted tubeless and DID tell them he was not familiar with this technology.

I stand by my opinion that he was very poorly served and the shop did not add value comminsurate with the expense to this transaction, which is what's always touted as the reason we should support local shops.

Last edited by Camilo; 07-13-21 at 02:44 AM.
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Old 07-13-21, 11:14 AM
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OP here. Just heard back from the LBS. They said to bring it by and they'd set it up while I wait and that it would take about fifteen minutes. Sounds good to me.

Thanks, everyone.
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Old 07-13-21, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Squeeze
OP here. Just heard back from the LBS. They said to bring it by and they'd set it up while I wait and that it would take about fifteen minutes. Sounds good to me.

Thanks, everyone.
Perfect. Thanks for the follow up
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Old 07-14-21, 02:45 AM
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"If you see a wheel without said nut, or with one that looks like a finger-tightened innertube nut, then the wheel is not set up tubeless."

Correction needed here. Look at Whiskey tubeless valve stems. The nut looks very much like a standard presta valve nut. Upon close inspection and removal from the stem one will find that looks can be deceiving.
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Old 07-19-21, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero
"If you see a wheel without said nut, or with one that looks like a finger-tightened innertube nut, then the wheel is not set up tubeless."

Correction needed here. Look at Whiskey tubeless valve stems. The nut looks very much like a standard presta valve nut. Upon close inspection and removal from the stem one will find that looks can be deceiving.
OP here again. The shop set up my tires as tubeless. Here's what I ended up with, if anyone is curious. They look like presta valves to me, only shorter. I saw a tiny white spot of what I assume is sealant on the valve when I removed the black plastic dust cap.





Thanks once again for the help, everyone. Much appreciated.
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Old 07-19-21, 11:41 AM
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Don't be tempted to remove the valve nut to save weight. It's there for a reason.
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