Di2. Where is it? Nowhere.
05-13-10, 05:35 AM
#27
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05-13-10, 05:36 AM
#28
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........... and I'm telling Mrs. Pcad to slip a sleeping pill in you dinner tonight.
05-13-10, 05:43 AM
#29
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05-13-10, 06:07 AM
#30
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how many pages?
05-13-10, 06:25 AM
#31
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pages? heck, it's already dying.................
or it'll be locked soon.
or it'll be locked soon.
05-13-10, 06:30 AM
#33
Senior Member
Why? Not because it doesn't work. It does. But it's the question nobody asked, and even if they did and this stuff is all that (I hear it is), it's not an answer people are willing to pay a $1000+ premium for. You don't see it too much in the pros. As great as it may work, it just seems to introduce a new pointless complexity to an already complex arrangement. Batteries and electronics on bikes that race in the cold, hot, wet and dusty crashed laced conditions of pro and amateur racing? For huge incremental premium price? All so the shifts can happen 1/50th of a second faster and crisper?
I am the Schwag Junkie Bar None here, and I have no interest in this stuff. What does that tell you?
I have no doubt Shimano didn't R&D this crap to have it sit in bike shop cases. I'm confident the price will drift downwards. I'm confident there will be an Ultegra version soon for less than half that premium. I have to tell you, that even if the price were the same, I'd have a hard time convincing myself I wanted the needless complexity and potential fail factor for what appears to be minimal benefits.
You want to move shifting to the next level? Hubs with lightweight internal gears and wireless electronic shifting. That would confer some real advantages that external gears and derailleurs don't deliver.
I'm sure that ten years from now that's what may be prevalent on pro bikes. I'll be in the 65+ and you will all Rue the Day.
I am the Schwag Junkie Bar None here, and I have no interest in this stuff. What does that tell you?
I have no doubt Shimano didn't R&D this crap to have it sit in bike shop cases. I'm confident the price will drift downwards. I'm confident there will be an Ultegra version soon for less than half that premium. I have to tell you, that even if the price were the same, I'd have a hard time convincing myself I wanted the needless complexity and potential fail factor for what appears to be minimal benefits.
You want to move shifting to the next level? Hubs with lightweight internal gears and wireless electronic shifting. That would confer some real advantages that external gears and derailleurs don't deliver.
I'm sure that ten years from now that's what may be prevalent on pro bikes. I'll be in the 65+ and you will all Rue the Day.
05-13-10, 06:36 AM
#35
Senior Member
The "I don't want to worry about charging it" argument is crap. I've heard people getting 800-1000 miles out of a charge. Cabled bikes need more maintenance (adjusting cables, keeping the cables+housings in good shape, etc.) than just getting plugged in over the same time period.
05-13-10, 06:39 AM
#36
Lost
The "I don't want to worry about charging it" argument is crap. I've heard people getting 800-1000 miles out of a charge. Cabled bikes need more maintenance (adjusting cables, keeping the cables+housings in good shape, etc.) than just getting plugged in over the same time period.
05-13-10, 06:40 AM
#37
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The "I don't want to worry about charging it" argument is crap. I've heard people getting 800-1000 miles out of a charge. Cabled bikes need more maintenance (adjusting cables, keeping the cables+housings in good shape, etc.) than just getting plugged in over the same time period.
05-13-10, 06:42 AM
#38
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I'm all in on the electric shifting,as soon as Toyota comes out with their version,which makes me pedal at top speed and i cant stop,with uncontrolable accelerations
I'm getting that and you guys will see me in the pro peloton !
I'm getting that and you guys will see me in the pro peloton !
05-13-10, 06:47 AM
#39
Senior Member
All of us clowns can manage to charge our cell phone every night, I highly doubt that when electronic shifting takes off (and it will) we will have a hard time remembering to charge our di2.
05-13-10, 07:01 AM
#40
Lost
No but if you ride in a lot of crappy weather, you have to replace them every 2000-3000 miles, the electric cables on di2 should last much longer than that.
All of us clowns can manage to charge our cell phone every night, I highly doubt that when electronic shifting takes off (and it will) we will have a hard time remembering to charge our di2.
All of us clowns can manage to charge our cell phone every night, I highly doubt that when electronic shifting takes off (and it will) we will have a hard time remembering to charge our di2.
i dont know what's out there honestly, but i dont know how well di2 is going to do with prolonged exposure to crappy conditions (a few years of riding wet, salty, cold / hot, sandy roads). time will tell, for sure.
05-13-10, 07:05 AM
#41
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i agree with what you're saying to a point. bottom line is that i dont think they will work all of the kinks out of electronic shifting until the price comes down, and many more everyday enthusiasts have it, to collect more data.
i dont know what's out there honestly, but i dont know how well di2 is going to do with prolonged exposure to crappy conditions (a few years of riding wet, salty, cold / hot, sandy roads). time will tell, for sure.
i dont know what's out there honestly, but i dont know how well di2 is going to do with prolonged exposure to crappy conditions (a few years of riding wet, salty, cold / hot, sandy roads). time will tell, for sure.
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05-13-10, 07:08 AM
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Because you don't have to worry about friction completely internal routing should be easy. If hydralic brakes take off as well then we'll end up with bikes which have virtually nothing in the way of visible cables.
05-13-10, 07:09 AM
#43
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05-13-10, 07:13 AM
#44
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I think Di2 is about to become much more common. Felt has it on a bike that retails for $5900, and actually can be had for $5400.
Pro Bike Kit has a full Di2 group now for $2400.
It's about to hit a price point where the premium over 7900, and Super Record will not be that large.
Pro Bike Kit has a full Di2 group now for $2400.
It's about to hit a price point where the premium over 7900, and Super Record will not be that large.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
05-13-10, 07:15 AM
#45
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
I think Di2 is about to become much more common. Felt has it on a bike that retails for $5900, and actually can be had for $5400.
Pro Bike Kit has a full Di2 group now for $2400.
It's about to hit a price point where the premium over 7900, and Super Record will not be that large.
Pro Bike Kit has a full Di2 group now for $2400.
It's about to hit a price point where the premium over 7900, and Super Record will not be that large.
05-13-10, 07:17 AM
#46
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I’m a little tired so here is my earlier reply concerning Di2.
You imply that speed of shifting is the primary benefit of Di2. That is simply wrong. The primary benefit is any gear, any time, under any constitutions. In fact, the Di2 has superior reliability compared to Red and Shimano (I haven’t used Campy), in that when I shift, I get the gear I want. With the others, you still don’t always get the right gear because of too short a push or not enough pressure on the shifter, cross chaining, too much load while shifting (especially the fd), etc. Additionally, it takes more mental energy to focus on getting the shift right. Not with Di2, it’s simply tap and forget. Also, barrel adjusters and cables are a thing of the past. 
It tells me you are no longer the Schwag Junkie King and have been barred by this one.
The performance of the Di2 is devastating. You simply tap and get a gear, fast, any time, under any conditions. That means full load, front or rear derailleur - or at the same time, cross chained or not, 700 watts or more, or less ... do you get the point? Touch and it's done. That's it. You can't screw it up, even when trying. The closest thing I have had to a mis-shift is taking 1/3 crank to catch the next set of pins and ramps to make the jump on the fd. Operator error still occurs every now and then as I am still getting used to tapping the buttons and am trying to perfect my "left side big ring, right side up two gears" upshift or "left side small ring, right side down two gears" downshift. I do these changes at the same time, one tap left side, two taps right side. Super cool! Since shifting is so easy and reliable, I shift constantly, tweaking my ideal desired cadence.
RD shifting is quieter than RED (almost silent unless the FD auto-trims or your pumping major wattage).
I am now running the RED powerdome 11-26 cassette with good results so far. Shimano claimed 11-25 was the largest rear cog that was compatible. It was so cool to throw the new cassette on the bike, start riding it, hit the trim adjustment button, and within 1 minute of putting on a new cassette, I was dialed in and riding. No tools, no twisting cable stops in the bike stand. Too cool!
It does weigh more but this difference can be reduced by using RED components in some areas. I have heard the RED crank will work as well but haven't tried it.
Is it "worth" the extra money? Not anymore than RED is worth the extra money compared to Force. I'm a techy guy and LOVE it. Seriously, it's that much fun. Other people may not care so much.
RD shifting is quieter than RED (almost silent unless the FD auto-trims or your pumping major wattage).
I am now running the RED powerdome 11-26 cassette with good results so far. Shimano claimed 11-25 was the largest rear cog that was compatible. It was so cool to throw the new cassette on the bike, start riding it, hit the trim adjustment button, and within 1 minute of putting on a new cassette, I was dialed in and riding. No tools, no twisting cable stops in the bike stand. Too cool!
It does weigh more but this difference can be reduced by using RED components in some areas. I have heard the RED crank will work as well but haven't tried it.
Is it "worth" the extra money? Not anymore than RED is worth the extra money compared to Force. I'm a techy guy and LOVE it. Seriously, it's that much fun. Other people may not care so much.
It tells me you are no longer the Schwag Junkie King and have been barred by this one.
05-13-10, 08:25 AM
#47
Senior Member
05-13-10, 08:34 AM
#48
stole your bike
Why? Not because it doesn't work. It does. But it's the question nobody asked, and even if they did and this stuff is all that (I hear it is), it's not an answer people are willing to pay a $1000+ premium for. You don't see it too much in the pros. As great as it may work, it just seems to introduce a new pointless complexity to an already complex arrangement. Batteries and electronics on bikes that race in the cold, hot, wet and dusty crashed laced conditions of pro and amateur racing? For huge incremental premium price? All so the shifts can happen 1/50th of a second faster and crisper?
I am the Schwag Junkie Bar None here, and I have no interest in this stuff. What does that tell you?
I have no doubt Shimano didn't R&D this crap to have it sit in bike shop cases. I'm confident the price will drift downwards. I'm confident there will be an Ultegra version soon for less than half that premium. I have to tell you, that even if the price were the same, I'd have a hard time convincing myself I wanted the needless complexity and potential fail factor for what appears to be minimal benefits.
You want to move shifting to the next level? Hubs with lightweight internal gears and wireless electronic shifting. That would confer some real advantages that external gears and derailleurs don't deliver.
I'm sure that ten years from now that's what may be prevalent on pro bikes. I'll be in the 65+ and you will all Rue the Day.
I am the Schwag Junkie Bar None here, and I have no interest in this stuff. What does that tell you?
I have no doubt Shimano didn't R&D this crap to have it sit in bike shop cases. I'm confident the price will drift downwards. I'm confident there will be an Ultegra version soon for less than half that premium. I have to tell you, that even if the price were the same, I'd have a hard time convincing myself I wanted the needless complexity and potential fail factor for what appears to be minimal benefits.
You want to move shifting to the next level? Hubs with lightweight internal gears and wireless electronic shifting. That would confer some real advantages that external gears and derailleurs don't deliver.
I'm sure that ten years from now that's what may be prevalent on pro bikes. I'll be in the 65+ and you will all Rue the Day.
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05-13-10, 08:35 AM
#49
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I agree with PCad. At some point Di3 or 4 will compute big ring and small ring shifts, even measuring data from a power meter, you set some parameters, and then the electronic brain takes over. This will eventually evolve to manual vs. automatic transmission for bikes. I'm an old-school guy. I drive an automatic transmission in my SUV today (5 speed + Lo/Hi 4WD) , but my fondest memories are driving stick shifts, and for 4WD, having to get out and manually lock the front hubs, sometimes in rain and mud. It was fun adventure, like going into Baja and unmarked "roads", pre-GPS and saying, "I can get us there, I'm really good at map-reading and dead-reckoning." And I was reallly good at that. And often really scared. But I didn't let my passengers know the latter. Cuz then they would just have hounded me to turn back. What kinda fun is that? It was waay more fun to deliver them to cool places.
I got Red before it swept the TdF podium. I liked before and aI like it afterwards. If Di2 sweeps this year, I'm not changing...not right away. I stuck with manual transmissions for my MVs for a long time.
I got Red before it swept the TdF podium. I liked before and aI like it afterwards. If Di2 sweeps this year, I'm not changing...not right away. I stuck with manual transmissions for my MVs for a long time.
05-13-10, 08:35 AM
#50
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
So what?
I'm telling you the real gearing change is internal hub shifting, wireless,
and it's 5-10 years in the future. But it's as inevitable as a Mets September Collapse.
I'm telling you the real gearing change is internal hub shifting, wireless,
and it's 5-10 years in the future. But it's as inevitable as a Mets September Collapse.