keidal

I have recently bought a Rasetto frame in Italy. I have no idea who built it and my Italian bicycle historian can't identify it either. I don't know if Cicli Rasetto is or was was a bike shop or whether Rasetto was a guy who built frames in small numbers. The head badge has been removed but there are old decals on the down-tube and the seat-tube.
From their design, I'm guessing that the frame dates from the 1940'-1950's era, but I could be completely wrong - possibly even the 1930's.
Does anyone have any information which could help me in solving this issue please ?
Kind regards,
Keith

keidal

I'm hoping that when I receive the frame I'll be able to identify the "town" at the bottom of the seat-tube decal. In the meantime, here are some more photographs.

unworthy1

juvela is one of the go-to experts on vintage Italian frames so hope he chimes in.
At a glance I don't think this is as old as 1930s, I'd guess more like '50s or even '60s, but would (should) leave this guessing to better authorities

keidal

Thanks, the following have been suggested as the possible builder of this frame :-
Giame, Amerio, Peloso, Pela and Gios.
The frame angles to me, do look more recent than the 30's, 40's - but who knows !

non-fixie 

The town on the seat tube decal is Moncalieri, in the outskirts of Turin:

keidal

Thank you, most grateful.

repechage

The shown effort and seat stay tops I think could place it either side of WWII

I think before due to the plain dropouts
might have been a city bike. Are there fender mount points at the stay bridges? Under?

obviously the green paint is later.

keidal

Thank you for your comments. There are some interesting developments on the possible [ likely ] builder of this frame, from detailed investigations being made in Italy at this time.
Hopefully at some stage within the next day or so, all will be revealed here.

keidal

Cicli Rasetto was a bike shop in Moncalieri, Italy and that they didn't build frames - they were bought in, ready painted and only decals were applied.
It is known that approximately 3 km away in Nichelino, also near Turin there was a frame building company called Fratelli Porta [ Porta brothers ] and they were in business from the 1940's at least until the 1980's. The sports / racing frames supplied [ ? ] to Cicli Rasetto were painted green. More sedate models were black definitely in the 1940's. The brothers also had a company called G.S. Porta Limone who produced rims. They also financed a racing team.
No frames of the early period are known to have survived except perhaps one owned by Enrico Mollo.
It is thought that my frame dates from the 1940 period and would have had Magistroni, Fratelli Brivio, Ambrosio and Simplex components and we are 99% certain that it was built by Fratelli Porta.
I have located and bought a Porta brass / enamel head badge which I believe could have been removed from the frame. The red frame showing Porta lettering dates from the 1970's.
I hope that this search has been of some interest. An old Godio frame is the next to be researched !
I will post photographs to follow on.

keidal

MauriceMoss

I remember seeing this bike when it was listed on eBay a while back. It's a pretty interesting looking frame. I remember the seller was guessing it was either a Giamè or a Frejus. It didn't look like either to me, but then there aren't all that many early examples of Giamè out there.


keidal - how did you settle on this being a Porta brothers built frame?

I don't remember the original listing mentioned it, but do you know what the bb threading is? Also, there are vertical head badge rivet holes - would the distance (center-to-center) between them be around 47mm?


The reason for those questions is that the frame looks repainted so it's unclear at what point the Rasetto transfers were applied. This could bring into question whether it was built specifically for Rasetto, or even whether it was made in the Turin area in the first place. Also, the fork (at least to my eye) doesn't look original.


The Porta brothers certainly built a decent number of frames but, of the several dozen examples I've seen over the years, the Rasetto doesn't look like any of them.


While using French frame bits (Simplex dropouts were common) on frames made by builders in Turin and the Piedmont lasted into the 1960s, this frame has more French stuff on it than any Italian frame I've ever seen.
One of the pics in the original eBay listing showed the underside of the bb shell. It showed a stamp of "AC" inside a diamond with an "18" on the other side:





The AC inside the diamond is a stamp of the bb shell manufacturer - A Crozet. I have never seen an Italian made frame built with their bb shell. A fair number of French frames from 1930 and 1940s were though.


While the bb threading would be a good data point to establish, the general features of this frame look a lot like this Tendil Sport that might be their Martano Professional "Special" model (more here), which came in metalllic green:

non-fixie 

OK, I'm impressed. Again.

keidal

Hello Maurice,
Thank you for all the research that you've done and all the information that you've kindly given to me. It is very much appreciated.
I have not received the frame, it is not yet in the UK apparently, even thoigh it was exported on 9 April..
All the details do suggest that the frame is of French origin. When the frame arrives, I will check the bottom bracket shell width - if it's French it will be 68 mm and the threads will be 35.mm. The steerer tube internal diameter should be 22 mm.
If these dimensions are correct it seems as if it is an elderly Tendil frame.
As soon as I receive the frame, I'll let you know the results.
In the meantime, very many thanks once again !
Kind regards,
Keith

keidal

Hello, I can't continue with this, because the frame, "allegedly" exported on 9 April, has not arrived in the UK. Well done Poste Italiene !

non-fixie 

Sorry to hear that. If it's any consolation, it has happened to me a few times, and in all cases the goods did show up eventually. In most cases I never found out what the problem had been.

Let's hope the frame will show up someday.

noobinsf 

I wouldn't worry too much -- you have to resign yourself to waiting, sort of like sitting in traffic. "There is nothing I can do to make this go faster." Everything is taking longer to ship these days.

keidal

A parcel shipped two days later by Posre Italiene was delivered [as usual] six days later. Parcel Force used their own tracking devices a few days ago and the parcel was last recorded to be in a container at a depot in Italy. Another tracking site found the parcel to be at a "central hub" in Italy on the 23 April.
Poste Italiene told the sender two weeks ago that the parcel would be delivered the following day !
According to P I's tracking service, their Agent is PTT, ie the Turkish Postal Service !

keidal

After almost three months, the seller / Paypal have refunded my money in full. The frame disappeared in transit apparently - it never arrived in the UK from Italy.

Mr. 66

Oh that hurts, I'm glad you able to get your funds returned.

non-fixie 

Ouch! Sorry to hear that.

iab

My last purchase from Italy has been stuck at the Milano post office since 5 May. I hope it comes, I'd rather have the item than the money. I rolled the dice again on Saturday. We'll see if that one gets here.

keidal

The frame was delivered January 12 and it is a Tendil, originally painted red with the correct forks.
The frame serial number is Z 4 / D drive side, opposite side 6 W
Bottom bracket AG in a diamond and a number 18
Badge rivet holes at 48 mm centres.

juvela

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wonderful to read the happy news! ; ^ ))

Tendil marque based in Nimes, France

non-fixie shall be able to provide information on this name

here is an advert from the A. Crozet firm, mentioned by Maurice back in post Nr. 11



Tendil catalogue of MCMXXXIX -

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Tendil catalogue of MCMXLIX -

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juvela

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the firm's premier professional rider at one time was R. Matigot and cycles were produced with his name -

example dated 1937:







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document of 1957 -





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keidal

Thank you very much for this information - greatly appreciated