Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

SP to Son Dynohub change?

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

SP to Son Dynohub change?

Old 12-14-21, 07:13 AM
  #1  
Tandem Tom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,564

Bikes: 1992 Serotta Colorado II,Co-Motion Speedster, Giant Escape Hybrid, 1977 Schwinn Super Le Tour

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 111 Times in 84 Posts
SP to Son Dynohub change?

Currently have the SP but I think it's may be starting to go bad. If I change to a Son is the wiring different?
Tandem Tom is offline  
Old 12-14-21, 08:21 AM
  #2  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,772

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2530 Post(s)
Liked 1,848 Times in 1,161 Posts
IIRC the SP uses the Shimano plastic block connector at the hub. SON uses individual spade connectors. Solder on the spades, swap the two lines if necessary (make sure ground and hot go to the right terminals), and you should be good to go.

Schmidt also makes a "no connectors required" hub which integrates the wiring into the fork. It's supposed to make removing and installing the wheel easier, and I'm fairly sure it does that if you've got a bike built around those connectors. Sounds like you don't have that bike, so don't get that hub.
pdlamb is offline  
Old 12-14-21, 11:53 AM
  #3  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,010

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3377 Post(s)
Liked 1,401 Times in 1,098 Posts
Originally Posted by Tandem Tom
Currently have the SP but I think it's may be starting to go bad. If I change to a Son is the wiring different?
Peter White website has a lot of detail on Son hubs, he is the distributor for them.
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.php

And wiring:
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wiringinstructions.php
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 12-14-21, 03:44 PM
  #4  
Tandem Tom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,564

Bikes: 1992 Serotta Colorado II,Co-Motion Speedster, Giant Escape Hybrid, 1977 Schwinn Super Le Tour

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 111 Times in 84 Posts
Thanks!
I'm starting to get "clicking" in the hub. So I thought I would start looking. We have SP on 4 bikes and have only had a bearing problem on one. Got a replacement from Twaine I. 3 days! Have been considering the Son if another went bad.
Tandem Tom is offline  
Old 12-14-21, 04:07 PM
  #5  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,010

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3377 Post(s)
Liked 1,401 Times in 1,098 Posts
Originally Posted by Tandem Tom
...
I'm starting to get "clicking" in the hub. ....
Clicking does not sound good. I remember you were on tour when that first one went bad, I think it was your wife's bike?

If I had one failure and now had a clicking, I would be looking at alternatives too.

If you pull your SP off that wheel, if you get curious about the innards, I think you already know about this other thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/electroni...placement.html
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 12-14-21, 04:10 PM
  #6  
Tandem Tom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,564

Bikes: 1992 Serotta Colorado II,Co-Motion Speedster, Giant Escape Hybrid, 1977 Schwinn Super Le Tour

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 111 Times in 84 Posts
Not sure I want to go down that road! Doesn't sound like a bearing.
Tandem Tom is offline  
Old 12-14-21, 04:16 PM
  #7  
Tandem Tom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,564

Bikes: 1992 Serotta Colorado II,Co-Motion Speedster, Giant Escape Hybrid, 1977 Schwinn Super Le Tour

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 111 Times in 84 Posts
I was just over at Peter White's site. Wondering if the Deluxe with the wide body is preferable?
Tandem Tom is offline  
Old 12-14-21, 05:04 PM
  #8  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,010

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3377 Post(s)
Liked 1,401 Times in 1,098 Posts
Originally Posted by Tandem Tom
I was just over at Peter White's site. Wondering if the Deluxe with the wide body is preferable?
If I recall correctly, the Deluxe is a lower wattage unit, was that the one for 20 inch wheels? Those smaller wheels spin faster (RPM) for the same speed.

It might put out enough light at higher speeds or if you do not use a taillight. For touring, I use the hub for USB power, I wanted the highest wattage they have.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Likes For Tourist in MSN:
Old 12-14-21, 05:17 PM
  #9  
Rick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,293
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 349 Times in 239 Posts
I had Co-Motion build my fork for the SL version of the Shmidt Son dyno hub.I know that the deluxe version is 2.4 watts instead of 3 watts. If you are a fast ryder and only require power for lights than this may work for you. I charge a backup battery so I went watt setup.
Rick is online now  
Old 12-14-21, 05:26 PM
  #10  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,611

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3867 Post(s)
Liked 2,549 Times in 1,570 Posts
I have the SP SV8, which is also designed for smaller wheels. With a B&M Eyc in front and B&M Toplight Line Small in back, I need to be going at least 4 MPH to get light. I'm okay with that, but if you want light sooner or might spend time actually riding below that threshold, I'd probably get the regular hub for bigger wheels.

The Sanyo/Panasonic hub on another bike makes light basically whenever the wheel is turning at all. My speedometer stops registering before the light stops, so I don't have a good way to measure the minimum speed...
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498

Last edited by ThermionicScott; 12-14-21 at 07:22 PM.
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 12-14-21, 07:09 PM
  #11  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,010

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3377 Post(s)
Liked 1,401 Times in 1,098 Posts
With my regular 3 watt hubs, when I am cranking up a steep hill at 3.5 or 4 mph, my headlamp is flickering as each magnet moves past the armature. Even a 3 watt hub is not that great on slow uphills.

This is the touring forum, so rarely do we go touring after dark, but if you are out after dark and have steep uphills, the 2.4 watt hub might not be the best choice.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 12-15-21, 03:11 AM
  #12  
Germany_chris
Iím a little Surly
 
Germany_chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,422

Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
Liked 1,276 Times in 641 Posts
I have two widebodies and a 28 both all will charge my phone through the Cinq 5 plug plus and run a headlight and tail light. I don't know if the widebody actually builds a stronger wheel but the cost difference is minimal and should technically be stronger so..
I will say it's more a a PITA to remove the wheel because the space is tight between the fork leg and connectors.




You can sort of see with this picture that I roll the connectors a bit forward to help with the space issue but it’s not really clean

Last edited by Germany_chris; 12-15-21 at 03:21 AM.
Germany_chris is offline  
Old 12-15-21, 07:47 AM
  #13  
Tandem Tom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,564

Bikes: 1992 Serotta Colorado II,Co-Motion Speedster, Giant Escape Hybrid, 1977 Schwinn Super Le Tour

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 111 Times in 84 Posts
OP here.
I am notic, I think, that the wire is larger on the Son hub vs. my current SP hubs. Am missing something?
Tandem Tom is offline  
Old 12-15-21, 10:00 AM
  #14  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,772

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2530 Post(s)
Liked 1,848 Times in 1,161 Posts
Originally Posted by Tandem Tom
I am notic, I think, that the wire is larger on the Son hub vs. my current SP hubs. Am missing something?
Wire typically comes with the light, or is supplied by the user. Anything that'll carry half an amp will work. 16 or 18 gauge wire has worked fine for the last 9-10 years for me, but some lights can be supplied with a small coax cable if you want it armored.
pdlamb is offline  
Old 12-15-21, 10:41 AM
  #15  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,010

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3377 Post(s)
Liked 1,401 Times in 1,098 Posts
Originally Posted by Tandem Tom
OP here.
I am notic, I think, that the wire is larger on the Son hub vs. my current SP hubs. Am missing something?
I think that Son sells some wire that looks bigger, as Pdlamb noted it is coax.

You need two conductors, the wire you currently have should be adequate, regardless of what it is. I usually use a twisted pair of wires that are heavier gauge than supplied because I have had a few bad experiences with the thin wire common on wired computers. I am guessing that the wire I typically used from the hub is somewhere between 18 and 22 gauge, bought from a hardware store, two individual wires twisted together.

But as Pdlamb noted, you usually get wire with the light. I just prefer a heavier gauge in case I snag the wire on something.

I started a thread several months ago on the wiring job I did on my rando bike, that was mostly heavier wire. That thread with lots of photos is at:
https://www.bikeforums.net/electroni...b-charger.html

It is my understanding that you need two 4.8mm female spade connectors for the Son hub instead of your SP/Shimano type plug. That should be the only difference. Where you buy the hub you might want to see if they sell the connectors. (Check on Peter White page if I have the spade connector size correct, I did not check that.)

If you might use that wheel on more than one bike, you might need a few spare spade connectors.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 12-15-21, 01:27 PM
  #16  
Germany_chris
Iím a little Surly
 
Germany_chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,422

Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
Liked 1,276 Times in 641 Posts
Originally Posted by Tandem Tom
OP here.
I am notic, I think, that the wire is larger on the Son hub vs. my current SP hubs. Am missing something?
if you’re basing that on my picture, don’t, that’s the wire that comes out of the Cinq.
Germany_chris is offline  
Old 12-19-21, 06:39 PM
  #17  
Rick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,293
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 349 Times in 239 Posts
Son uses a 3mm coaxial cable for there wiring. Peter White Cycles sells it in a packaged set or by the foot. He will also build you a made to order wiring harness on request.
Rick is online now  
Old 11-22-22, 07:48 PM
  #18  
M1T
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Carbondale (nicer than it sounds), Colorado
Posts: 96

Bikes: Several Italian bikes from the 50's - 83, 4 English Lightweights (1949-1970), Riding bikes-Trek 760, SOMA Triple Cross gravel bike, SOMA SAGA DC touring bike, Pivot Les Fat for winter riding and long distance bikepacking. One modern Carbon bike.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 32 Posts
Rare Earth Quick Disconnect Magnet

Changing a tire in an uncomfortable situation (rain, cold, dark, etc.) can lead to doing things too fast. Which can lead to removing the wheel without remembering the spade connectors... which can pull them off the wire, etc. So soldering the wires to a quick disconnect rare earth magnet (can't seem to find the ones I use, but they are out there) solves that problem. But... remember to use an electric grease, the kind used for car batteries, etc. on the inside of the mated pairs. They will corrode over time and stop conducting current. Have experiences both scenarios but have to say the quick discount magnets are the way to go.
M1T is offline  
Old 11-23-22, 07:29 AM
  #19  
L134 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego
Posts: 699

Bikes: 1978 Bruce Gordon, 1977 Lippy, 199? Lippy tandem, Bike Friday NWT, 1982 Trek 720, 2012 Rivendell Atlantis, 1983 Bianchi Specialissima?

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Liked 169 Times in 104 Posts
Originally Posted by M1T
Changing a tire in an uncomfortable situation (rain, cold, dark, etc.) can lead to doing things too fast. Which can lead to removing the wheel without remembering the spade connectors... which can pull them off the wire, etc. So soldering the wires to a quick disconnect rare earth magnet (can't seem to find the ones I use, but they are out there) solves that problem. But... remember to use an electric grease, the kind used for car batteries, etc. on the inside of the mated pairs. They will corrode over time and stop conducting current. Have experiences both scenarios but have to say the quick discount magnets are the way to go.
Thanks for this. I found Dyna-Snap designed specifically for this. Maybe a bit pricey but I like the idea.
L134 is offline  
Old 11-23-22, 08:29 AM
  #20  
M1T
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Carbondale (nicer than it sounds), Colorado
Posts: 96

Bikes: Several Italian bikes from the 50's - 83, 4 English Lightweights (1949-1970), Riding bikes-Trek 760, SOMA Triple Cross gravel bike, SOMA SAGA DC touring bike, Pivot Les Fat for winter riding and long distance bikepacking. One modern Carbon bike.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by L134
Thanks for this. I found Dyna-Snap designed specifically for this. Maybe a bit pricey but I like the idea.
Yes, Dyna-Snap... that's it. And, yes, they have gone up in price! Did a portion of the new Wild West tour across the backroads of Montana in the summer of 2021 and noticed things were not charging as usual. I pulled apart the magnets and could see a thin layer of darker, corroded material. So I scraped off / out as much as I could, then stoped at a roadside auto-repair place and they gave me a dab of that special grease. Problem solved. So before even a short tour, I check them to make sure.
M1T is offline  
Old 11-23-22, 12:03 PM
  #21  
HelpSingularity 
Full Member
 
HelpSingularity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: San Diego, California USA
Posts: 318

Bikes: 1974 Masi GC, 1982 Trek 728 (aka 720), 1992 Trek Multitrack 750

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 189 Times in 123 Posts
Originally Posted by Tandem Tom
I was just over at Peter White's site. Wondering if the Deluxe with the wide body is preferable?
Yes, wide body is preferable. I have two wide body SON hubs. The first one I purchased from Peter White twenty years ago (before LED headlights had been developed), still going strong.
HelpSingularity is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.