Intro to Road Cycling - Am I fast?
01-06-22, 07:50 PM
#51
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Yeah, no. I'm just going to go ahead and say that chart is bogus. I'm fat and old. 55 yrs old, look like I'm about 6 months pregnant, 5 heart attacks under my belt, and dealing with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, and Reynaud's. Did I say I'm fat and old? Yeah. And broken. When me and my other old, fat, broken buddies ride, we average 20 - 25 KPH. That's including stops for stop signs, lights, etc. Does not, or course, factor in stopping for a beer or two (because we so desperately need them, right?). So if our speed is average for our age, I gotta say there's got to be a whole lotta puppies for sale by other 55 year old riders out there. Because anybody my age that can make the pedals go 'round should be able to sustain an average speed considerably higher than my old, fat, broken *ss.
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01-06-22, 08:01 PM
#52
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One dude I ride with is 62 and there is a vid of him crashing at 39 MPH during a sprint in a criterium. Old guys can be wicked fast. After one of our rides he was showing me how to sprint and casually dropped 1,200 watts, and this was after the ride/he wasn't fresh.
01-06-22, 09:13 PM
#53
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faster than average, but about right for your age
https://bikingultimate.com/average-c...-speed-by-age/
https://bikingultimate.com/average-c...-speed-by-age/
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. Ask your local bike stores for where the fast drop rides are, or if you want to train over to palo alto there are plenty of rides.
01-07-22, 05:46 AM
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Not enough cards, then. Or use thicker cards.
I was making a joke to illustrate how wrong and dumb your suggestion was. Nitpicking the joke seemed like a good idea to you? Are you arguing that the honey on the chain is a good idea?
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01-07-22, 06:37 AM
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I ride extensively with a couple dozen+ teens each year and many use Trek Fx1 hybrids while some use road bikes.
Compared to the dozens of kids I have ridden with thru the years, 16.5mph on flat roads is good. It definitely isnt the slowest, but it also isnt the fastest. Within that large group of teens, it would put you in the top 1/3rd for average speed on a flat 12mi route. However, within the smaller athletic group of kids, it would put you in the bottom 1/3rd. That is pretty easily changed with training(freqency of riding, distance, etc).
At that average speed, you suffer a decent bit from sitting upright, so you may find you are a bit more aerodynamic with the road bike and average speed will be a bit faster. Your road bike will weigh less, but on flat road it basically doesnt matter which bike weight you have for that distance and speed range.
Just a couple of things to keep in mind once your road bike comes in.
Compared to the dozens of kids I have ridden with thru the years, 16.5mph on flat roads is good. It definitely isnt the slowest, but it also isnt the fastest. Within that large group of teens, it would put you in the top 1/3rd for average speed on a flat 12mi route. However, within the smaller athletic group of kids, it would put you in the bottom 1/3rd. That is pretty easily changed with training(freqency of riding, distance, etc).
At that average speed, you suffer a decent bit from sitting upright, so you may find you are a bit more aerodynamic with the road bike and average speed will be a bit faster. Your road bike will weigh less, but on flat road it basically doesnt matter which bike weight you have for that distance and speed range.
Just a couple of things to keep in mind once your road bike comes in.
Sorry, just kidding. Mostly.
Welcome to the bikeforums, alexTREKal3. Speaking of gratuitous and uninformed advice: I don't know what the walking/biking trail that you use is like, but please be considerate of other users when riding on it. It is for everyone to use, and it may not always be safe for you and other users if you're going "fast".
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01-07-22, 07:05 AM
#57
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I ride extensively with a couple dozen+ teens each year and many use Trek Fx1 hybrids while some use road bikes.
Compared to the dozens of kids I have ridden with thru the years, 16.5mph on flat roads is good. It definitely isnt the slowest, but it also isnt the fastest. Within that large group of teens, it would put you in the top 1/3rd for average speed on a flat 12mi route. However, within the smaller athletic group of kids, it would put you in the bottom 1/3rd. That is pretty easily changed with training(freqency of riding, distance, etc).
At that average speed, you suffer a decent bit from sitting upright, so you may find you are a bit more aerodynamic with the road bike and average speed will be a bit faster. Your road bike will weigh less, but on flat road it basically doesnt matter which bike weight you have for that distance and speed range.
Just a couple of things to keep in mind once your road bike comes in.
Compared to the dozens of kids I have ridden with thru the years, 16.5mph on flat roads is good. It definitely isnt the slowest, but it also isnt the fastest. Within that large group of teens, it would put you in the top 1/3rd for average speed on a flat 12mi route. However, within the smaller athletic group of kids, it would put you in the bottom 1/3rd. That is pretty easily changed with training(freqency of riding, distance, etc).
At that average speed, you suffer a decent bit from sitting upright, so you may find you are a bit more aerodynamic with the road bike and average speed will be a bit faster. Your road bike will weigh less, but on flat road it basically doesnt matter which bike weight you have for that distance and speed range.
Just a couple of things to keep in mind once your road bike comes in.
I think "a bit" is probably the perfect word to use for the speed increase. I've seen a fair number of people be disappointed when they have unrealistic expectations of how much faster they'll be on the more aero bike.
Great post, btw.
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01-07-22, 08:05 AM
#58
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The cycling metric development path:
Phase one: obsession with speed. Let me see how fast I can go down this hill! Let me see what kind of rolling speed I can hold today! Then you realize that wind, riding partners, course profile, traffic lights etc all affect avg. rolling speed. You move on.
Phase two: you get obsessed with distance. "How far did you ride today?" "How many miles did you ride this year?". You seek to push yourself into 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 mile days. You try to get a century in each week. Then you realize that you're still getting dropped on group rides. You get blown off the back any time the road turns up. You start to think that maybe churning out endless miles at a medium effort level maybe isn't the best way to get fit.
Phase three: you get a power meter. Average watts in the answer. Yes! Finally an objective measure that is impervious to externalities and focuses on your actual fitness. Then you realize that your heavier, far less fit friend can hold much higher wattage than you even though they're going a lot slower. Hmmm.
Phase four: you settle on watts per KG as what matters. This is actually a pretty good metric that normalizes for all kinds of externalities. This is the answer! But as you get more fit you start to think about watts/KG at a given heart rate. You start to think about VAM, kilojoules and TSS.
Phase five: you realize this is the path to madness. You seek to enjoy riding with friends, enjoy beating each other up on the hills, enjoy the feeling of being outside in fresh air, enjoy the scenery.
Phase one: obsession with speed. Let me see how fast I can go down this hill! Let me see what kind of rolling speed I can hold today! Then you realize that wind, riding partners, course profile, traffic lights etc all affect avg. rolling speed. You move on.
Phase two: you get obsessed with distance. "How far did you ride today?" "How many miles did you ride this year?". You seek to push yourself into 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 mile days. You try to get a century in each week. Then you realize that you're still getting dropped on group rides. You get blown off the back any time the road turns up. You start to think that maybe churning out endless miles at a medium effort level maybe isn't the best way to get fit.
Phase three: you get a power meter. Average watts in the answer. Yes! Finally an objective measure that is impervious to externalities and focuses on your actual fitness. Then you realize that your heavier, far less fit friend can hold much higher wattage than you even though they're going a lot slower. Hmmm.
Phase four: you settle on watts per KG as what matters. This is actually a pretty good metric that normalizes for all kinds of externalities. This is the answer! But as you get more fit you start to think about watts/KG at a given heart rate. You start to think about VAM, kilojoules and TSS.
Phase five: you realize this is the path to madness. You seek to enjoy riding with friends, enjoy beating each other up on the hills, enjoy the feeling of being outside in fresh air, enjoy the scenery.
Last edited by Hiro11; 01-07-22 at 08:13 AM.
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01-07-22, 08:19 AM
#59
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One of the kids that I ride with finished his second year this past July and bought a road bike off of an older rider who aged out of the program. All season this kid would talk about how much faster he would be on a road bike and how much his FX1 hybrid was holding him back. It was almost an ongoing joke that if he was with a faster group and couldnt keep up, he was going to complain about how much slower he was due to the hybrid. I would temper his expectations each time I heard him talking. He will be faster next season, Im sure, but it will be a mix of him being stronger and a healthy heap of placebo.
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01-07-22, 08:21 AM
#60
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...he made it out of gray spray painted styrofoam. It was funny to see people come up to him in awe over his decision.
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01-07-22, 08:30 AM
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The cycling metric development path:
Phase one: obsession with speed. Let me see how fast I can go down this hill! Let me see what kind of rolling speed I can hold today! Then you realize that wind, riding partners, course profile, traffic lights etc all affect avg. rolling speed. You move on.
Phase two: you get obsessed with distance. "How far did you ride today?" "How many miles did you ride this year?". You seek to push yourself into 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 mile days. You try to get a century in each week. Then you realize that you're still getting dropped on group rides. You get blown off the back any time the road turns up. You start to think that maybe churning out endless miles at a medium effort level maybe isn't the best way to get fit.
Phase three: you get a power meter. Average watts in the answer. Yes! Finally an objective measure that is impervious to externalities and focuses on your actual fitness. Then you realize that your heavier, far less fit friend can hold much higher wattage than you even though they're going a lot slower. Hmmm.
Phase four: you settle on watts per KG as what matters. This is actually a pretty good metric that normalizes for all kinds of externalities. This is the answer! But as you get more fit you start to think about watts/KG at a given heart rate. You start to think about VAM, kilojoules and TSS.
Phase five: you realize this is the path to madness. You seek to enjoy riding with friends, enjoy beating each other up on the hills, enjoy the feeling of being outside in fresh air, enjoy the scenery.
Phase one: obsession with speed. Let me see how fast I can go down this hill! Let me see what kind of rolling speed I can hold today! Then you realize that wind, riding partners, course profile, traffic lights etc all affect avg. rolling speed. You move on.
Phase two: you get obsessed with distance. "How far did you ride today?" "How many miles did you ride this year?". You seek to push yourself into 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 mile days. You try to get a century in each week. Then you realize that you're still getting dropped on group rides. You get blown off the back any time the road turns up. You start to think that maybe churning out endless miles at a medium effort level maybe isn't the best way to get fit.
Phase three: you get a power meter. Average watts in the answer. Yes! Finally an objective measure that is impervious to externalities and focuses on your actual fitness. Then you realize that your heavier, far less fit friend can hold much higher wattage than you even though they're going a lot slower. Hmmm.
Phase four: you settle on watts per KG as what matters. This is actually a pretty good metric that normalizes for all kinds of externalities. This is the answer! But as you get more fit you start to think about watts/KG at a given heart rate. You start to think about VAM, kilojoules and TSS.
Phase five: you realize this is the path to madness. You seek to enjoy riding with friends, enjoy beating each other up on the hills, enjoy the feeling of being outside in fresh air, enjoy the scenery.
If you apply this to that above.........that means physical outcomes on the bike, even if you plan to "just ride for fun". You have to ask yourself if the result is "my life is better and I have less stress from doing this" even if just out for a super casual ride plan. Otherwise, why are you doing something you hate?
Applied to being "faster"........that means race results or fitness goals or PR's that are objectively measurable. I lost 5 pounds. I shaved 30 seconds off that out and back or looped course. I won or finished that event.
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01-07-22, 09:40 AM
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01-07-22, 10:15 AM
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At the end of the day, if you are lucky, you may have only lost a few thousand dollars. I wonder what half a Mickey Mantle rookie card is worth?
John
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01-07-22, 01:13 PM
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I'm slow and I really don't care. I just want to ride my bike. The foot of new snow outside my door is telling me "Not today". Is it almost spring?
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01-07-22, 08:26 PM
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From studies I've read, under 20 mph, the biggest factor in speed is the tires. Above 20 mph, the biggest factor is aero and followed closely by tires.
It's the tires. If you want your hybrid to go significantly faster, simply put expensive, fast tires on it and you'll have no problems keeping up with roadies on a road bike.
It's the tires. If you want your hybrid to go significantly faster, simply put expensive, fast tires on it and you'll have no problems keeping up with roadies on a road bike.
01-07-22, 08:50 PM
#68
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That's what I did, and I am very fast now, in my age group. But it's not that hard to be fast in the over 70 age group. The toughest thing is to live that long.
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01-07-22, 09:25 PM
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It wasn't dumb. It is useful in situations you can't maintain >20 mph due to road or bike path conditions like a relatively busy MUP for example. The only way to simulate >20 mph effort when you have to ride at lower speeds is "slowing down" stuff like the airhub or adjusting brakes to drag, high rolling resistance urban tires, hoodie jacket, etc.
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01-07-22, 10:28 PM
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It wasn't dumb. It is useful in situations you can't maintain >20 mph due to road or bike path conditions like a relatively busy MUP for example. The only way to simulate >20 mph effort when you have to ride at lower speeds is "slowing down" stuff like the airhub or adjusting brakes to drag, high rolling resistance urban tires, hoodie jacket, etc.
Riding on a trainer, riding a high gear ratio, putting weights on your bike and riding it on the bottom of a swimming pool, getting in a spaceship and riding the bicycle in the dense atmosphere of Venus.
Where the hell did you get the ridiculous idea that the OP wants to slow his roll? I used to live a couple of cities up the road from where he lives, there's plenty of places to ride fast. Also, there's plenty of hills if he wants to ride against resistance without crap-gearing his bike. And you know as well as I do that speed is also about learning to handle the bike at speed. All the impediments you put on it aren't going to let you simulate that at lower speed.
Last edited by livedarklions; 01-07-22 at 10:32 PM.
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01-07-22, 10:42 PM
#71
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From studies I've read, under 20 mph, the biggest factor in speed is the tires. Above 20 mph, the biggest factor is aero and followed closely by tires.
It's the tires. If you want your hybrid to go significantly faster, simply put expensive, fast tires on it and you'll have no problems keeping up with roadies on a road bike.
It's the tires. If you want your hybrid to go significantly faster, simply put expensive, fast tires on it and you'll have no problems keeping up with roadies on a road bike.
Hell, don't even bother with the bike, just ride the tires. Seriously, you're just full of awful advice. The biggest factor in speed is always the motor, tires can improve things at the margin, but since you have no idea what tires are currently on his bike, you really don't even know that he could get any improvement at all.
01-07-22, 11:20 PM
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01-08-22, 05:26 AM
#73
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OP just find a club they usually have structured training rides and developmental plans
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01-08-22, 05:52 AM
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Little Calvin might benefit from some club riding as well....
01-08-22, 11:05 AM
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To the OP…
16.5mph over 12 miles is not fast. But it isn’t certainly slow either, especially for your age and type of bike.
The next steps with the Domane are up to you. You have been given good advice about adding more miles and finding a club/group to ride with.
It really comes down to building up your legs, developing the proper techniques, and riding skills.
I’m pretty sure you’ll go faster, but how fast is a combination of training and genetics.
John
16.5mph over 12 miles is not fast. But it isn’t certainly slow either, especially for your age and type of bike.
The next steps with the Domane are up to you. You have been given good advice about adding more miles and finding a club/group to ride with.
It really comes down to building up your legs, developing the proper techniques, and riding skills.
I’m pretty sure you’ll go faster, but how fast is a combination of training and genetics.
John
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