Camilo

I agree with you. I can often take photos with my phone that rival what I could have done at the same place and time with my Nikon. I don't ride my expensive bike any faster than my cheapest. I buy top of the line XC gear, not because I fancy myself a fast skier, but because I ski so much, I enjoy the quality (performance, weight, etc.).

But, like the guy with the Leica, it sure is fun to handle and use a fine piece of equipment. I've always thought it would be a pleasure to own one, but it's not on my list of things I care to afford. Sometimes just wanting and being able to afford something is really fun.

Camilo

My dentist - who owns 3 homes and a nice boat - rides a 15 year old Cannondal CAAD8/Ultegra build. And he rides a lot and is very fit.

genejockey 

Ah, so you didn't even actually have a point. Got it.

Rolla

Guess you missed that, too. You're 0 for 2, but keep swingin' for the fences.

genejockey 

So, SS bikes are just fine for climbing but they're not good for climbing. Got it.

Koyote

I owned an M6 with a 35mm Summicron for a year -- hated it. The worst ergonomics I've ever experienced, and the lens was *****. Just reloading it with a fresh roll of film required three hands. Just a terrible, antiquated design. I haven't tried their digital cameras, so maybe those are better.

Eric F 

For people with a lot of money, $14k is not a lot of money.

I’m not one of those people.

Atlas Shrugged

Rest assured a vast majority of those who purchase bikes in that price range will still have adequate resources to eek out a existence.

genejockey 

It's a joke, boys. See first line of my signature.

Rolla

Guess I have to spell it out for you, since you're so obtuse:

Climbing hills on a singlespeed, while not always the best choice, will nevertheless not "explode your knees" if you do it.

Better read that again to be sure you "got it."

genejockey 

So, all those people who say that high power at really low cadences is linked to knee pain are mistaken. Good to know.

Eric F 

I’m not sure how much it varies from individual to individual, but I regularly include low-rpm work in my riding/training routines, as well as ride a SS MTB from time to time. I have had zero issues with knee pain. This is just me. YMMV.

genejockey 

When you say "low-rpm" are you talking about <40? Because that's what were talking about here.

mschwett 

peter sagan on a crappy bike would crush me in every possible cycling sport invented no matter what i ride. it wouldn’t even be remotely close.

however, i’m very confident i could take a better photo of the facial expression of a bird in flight from a normal distance with a dSLR + long lens than any pro alive or dead could take with any smartphone. the physics/optics can’t be overcome with skill.

the leica example may be true to an extent, but there one is paying for perceived quality, style, pedigree, haptics, ergonomics, etc. that isn’t really what one is paying for with a high end bike, at least not primarily.

Eric F 

Regarding actual bike shop profit for high-end bikes…

I reached out to an old friend who has worked in the bike industry for many decades, and he had some factual information to share with me on this topic. Shop cost for high-end bikes is usually about 25-35% below retail (varies depending on the brand). For a $14k bike, the previous guess of $5k is a little high, but isn’t far off.

There’s some things to consider, however. Some bikes are delivered mostly assembled, and are fairly quick for the shop to finish. Others are just a frame, fork, and boxes of parts, which takes hours of shop labor time to build (especially with today’s current internal routing). Most shops aren’t selling very many of these bikes, and they may be still sitting in the window past the time when the manufacturer has required payment. It also isn’t rare for shops to offer discounts (10% is typical in my area) to local club/team members, and loyal customers, so the actual sales price might be a good chunk lower than full sticker price.

All that said, it really all comes down to the basic business principle that the value of something is what it will actually sell for. If a bike sells for $14k, that is what it is worth, at that location, on that day. Whether or not you are willing to pay that much for that bike is irrelevant.

Personally, I don’t think ~30% gross profit margin is excessive in the retail world, even for a $10k+ product.

Eric F 

On my SS MTB, sometimes yes. A 53x11 on 0% grade on Zwift is usually in the 50s, depending on how hard I’m pushing. This is just me. Your knees aren’t my knees.

tomato coupe

Really? You mean they don't actually explode?

wolfchild

SS requires a different approach and different strategy when attacking hills, you can't just sit in the saddle and expect to climb a hill like you would on a bike with granny gear...I fully understand that SS riding is not for everybody ( you either love it or you hate it ) and i would never tell anybody to follow what I do. SS may not be optimal for some terrain but to say that it's no good for climbing and it makes your knees explode is just BS. The problem with a lot of people who ride SS is that they running a gear ratio which is way to high, it's no wonder that they're having problems...BTW majority of complaints about knee problems here on bikeforums comes from people on multi geared bikes and not SS bikes, weird.

PeteHski

Ah, but would Peter Sagan actually want to be riding a crappy bike?

livedarklions

I'm definitely at the Rolla end of the scale here as I enjoy powering up a hill at a relatively high gear (inefficient, but good resistance training), but in this case, you're both right. Knees are not standard issue, and what works for me might put another person into agony.

livedarklions

​​​​​​Wrong how? Statistically, there's no relationship between gear choice and knee injury. On the individual level? They're a better judge of their own pain than statistics.

Way too much generalization from anecdote on this subject. Where I feel I need to object is when people start telling others that their preferred gearing is going to blow out their knees. I've been on the receiving end of this sort of "advice" a lot, and it's really annoying.

livedarklions

I will, from time to time, take a really big hill on the big chain ring just cuz. I'm not measuring my cadence but I'm sure it will dip below40. I've never had knee pain after doing something like that.

Lombard

Now think about how embarrassed you would be if you were riding a $14,000 bike and someone with a Huffy toasted you up a hill. The advantage to riding with people who ride higher end bikes than you is that you can blame your equipment for being slow.

wolfchild

Where are those people who say that SS is bad for you ?...I think you're the first person who said that SS bikes make knees explode.

PeteHski

That's fine then. But you are putting more stress on your knees, without a doubt. It may or may not cause you problems later on - but the increased stress is real. One of my skiing buddies was as strong as an ox, but eventually wore out his knees and had to have both replaced in his late 60s. I'm trying to avoid that scenario as best I can and that includes riding a generally higher cadence - which has loads of other benefits apart from reducing knee stress.