Polaris OBark

This is required reading (right up there with the thread about the guy setting his wheel on fire while trying to burn off his dork disk):

https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespe...e-warning.html

Lombard

To be fair, he didn't indicate what tires he was riding before he became a Rene Herse convert. They could have been garden hoses.

Polaris OBark

All tires are gardenhosen if they aren't Rene Herse.

phrantic09

Say more about the blowoff- that’s what’s stopping me from picking up some Bon Jon ELs

chaadster

Don’t trip; Bon Jon ELs with Aerothan tubes are extremely sweet, like 95% as sweet as running them tubeless…if you could. I mean, you can run them tubeless, and I did, it’s just a matter of how much BS you want to put up with to do it. I had one blow off the rim while inflating it, trying to get the beads to lock.

That was the final straw for me, and I happily been running them with Aerothan TPU for +2 years now.

Lombard

Hmmm. Maybe this is why I can't tell a difference between Panaracer GK Slicks and Rene Herse Extralights. I run them with standard butyl tubes.

ThermionicScott 

Both attempt to be "fast" tires, but using different approaches: GravelKings use a thinner tread, RHs use a lighter casing. If you need long tread life or a little better puncture resistance, the RHs have the advantage, but I've been pretty content so far with the durability (and cost) of the GravelKing type.

Polaris OBark

I've run Barlow Pass EL with and without tubes and can't tell much (if any) difference.

For the wider tires (44 mm, 48mm, 55 mm), I have never tried with tubes. I imagine I would feel more of a difference.

I think their official advice is not to run anything narrow than 35mm tubeless.

IIRC, Jan says tubeless setups with their tires are marginally slower.

pdlamb

Well then, it's obvious Rene Herse makes you faster, because of all the weight you're carrying when you ride the Panaracer!

Lombard

Unless I leave my wallet at home.

phrantic09

I like the added insurance of the sealant. If my wheels weren’t hookless, I’d feel more comfortable

Sy Reene

AFAIK, you can run tires approved for hookless with tubes on hookless rims. Though I don't know if you can inflate to higher pressures in doing so than is advised running without tubes.. I'm kinda hazy on the industry direction there.

Koyote

I ran the RH Bon Jon Pass (standard casing) tires for about 7500 miles on one of my bikes. They were terrific: very smooth and supple, great grip, and very puncture resistant -- I ran them tubeless, and don't recall ever even seeing a little sealant splattered on my frame. I certainly never had to put in a tube mid-ride.

The tires also lasted a looong time. RH uses thick rubber and no puncture protection layer in those tires. I got 3300 miles on a rear and still had no cords showing through when it was replaced; the front tire went 7500 miles and still had plenty of life left.

Eventually, I had to take off one of the tires for some reason (can't recall why) and couldn't get it to seat on my rim...so I bought a couple of Gravelking Slick+ tires, which are fine. Not as supple as the RH, though.

chaadster

Oh…I’ve got no idea about hookless rim compatibility of any of the Herse tires. I should have said I was referring to hooked rims. Sorry.

Lombard

That life is pretty much typical of a good road tire. 3000 miles is about what I get out of a rear Vittoria Rubino. Front tires generally last more than 3 times longer than rears.

Koyote

Yes, true for many road tires. But in my experience, tires with that ride quality -- smooth and supple -- don't last as long.

Lombard

For what it's worth, I was talked into buying a set of oooooh so smooth and supple Vittoria Corsas. They cost twice as much as Vittoria Rubinos and I could not tell a difference in ride quality. I could however tell a difference in ride quality between Vittoria Rubinos and Maxxis ReFuses. The ReFuses are bombproof, but ride like a garden hose.

Koyote

When I was road racing (15+ years ago), I rode Gommitalia open tubular tires. (I think that brand is now defunct.) The tires were expensive, smooth, supple, and grippy...And I would get about 1500 miles out of a rear. But man, they felt great.

mstateglfr 

Yes, the blissful ignorance that doesnt give them the chance to be infuriated over tubeless tires that weep more than a widow and wont even stay on the rim during normal inflation. Those peasants simply dont know what they are missing.

Im all for high quality tires and have various brands/models on all my bikes, but the fact that you were forced to run a tube in a tubeless tire because it wouldnt seal AND wouldnt even just stay on the rim? That shouldnt be a vote in favor or a tire.
Havent you had multiple RH tires that had literal holes in the tires too?

Pays a small fortune for tires that are advertised as tubeless yet wont hold air, have visible holes, and wont even stay on the rim...recognizes the whole process is infuriating and total BS, yet is also critical of those buying cheap tires that dont have all these issues.

There is a wide sweet spot between cheap department tires and the money you wasted on tubeless tires that hemorrhage sealant, blow off a rim, and cant even be run tubeless.

esasjl

I've not tried tubeless as it seems a lot of hassle, but TPU tubes are easily as good a latex and stay inflated. Very happy with Aerothan tubes in compass/RH/Grand Bois from 26-622 to 54-559.

Kapusta

That is one insanely fast tire.

chaadster

TPU is just as fast, more durable, more puncture resistant, works at lower pressure, holds air better, is less prone to catastrophic deflation, it’s lighter, requires less raw material and is recyclable. TPU is better than latex, but it does cost more.

I think Aerothan are worth it, though, especially in the Herse extralight casing tires.

And yeah, tubeless can be a hassle, but when you’re geared up for it, and have a good tire/wheel combo, it’s sweet. I run 4 bikes tubeless right now, one TPU, and the balance butyl.

esasjl

I'm fortunate in getting very few punctures (less than one a year) which reduces my rationale for tubeless. My most used setup has Humptulips Ridge with TPU tubes (Mavic D521/Shimano wheels); as grippy as slicks (RTPs) on tarmac and brilliant on unsealed roads and bridleways.

Kapusta

RH had issues with at least one of their newly tubeless models a few years ago. That made me hold off of going tubeless with them until about 2 years ago. IIRC, that’s been addressed. I and a friend of mine have set them up tubeless since, and they set up relatively easily.

Mine (Barlow Pass EL) did start weeping a lot after about a year. Having run tubeless for a long time on MTBs, I have had a lot of tires weep, and it is generally not a big deal, but these weeped too much. I use mostly Stans regular, I’ve read other sealants are more highly recommended.

Some manufacturing problems are pretty easily solved, like tubeless setup and fit. I see no reason to believe this issue has not been resolved. There is nothing about an EL casing tire that would be more prone to bead related issues.

OTOH, I think the weeping issue is going to be a tough nut to crack with the EL sidewalls.

FWIW, there are also reports of Panaracer Gravel Kings blowing off rims. I was once with a friend when his Maxxis tire blow off a rim when inflating at the trailhead. Over the past 25 years, I have had defective or highly problematic tires from Maxxis, Schwalbe, Kenda, Michelin, and Continental. It is important to understand the difference between isolated production issues and underlying design limitations or flaws.