Solvent for degreasing/cleaning?
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,549
Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0
Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5224 Post(s)
Liked 3,581 Times
in
2,342 Posts
#52
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,635
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4733 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
I have also read the MSW instructions (MSPEEDWAX | Molten Speed Wax - How To Clean Your Bicycle Chain Before Hot Waxing) and the alcohol after mineral spirits part does not make sense. To the extent that mineral spirits leave a residue (which I don't see), I think an acetone bath would work better to chase that off.
I'd just stick the coffee filter in a funnel, funnel held by whatever you're decanting into.
Likes For Sy Reene:
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,678
Bikes: too many sparkly Italians, some sweet Americans and a couple interesting Japanese
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 569 Post(s)
Liked 581 Times
in
409 Posts
The degreaser itself may be biodegradeable, but the stuff it removes from your bike components is not biodegradeable.
I like OMS because it is safe and effective, and can be reused multiple times by letting the particulate matter settle out and decanting clean solvent off the top.
I like OMS because it is safe and effective, and can be reused multiple times by letting the particulate matter settle out and decanting clean solvent off the top.
#54
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,635
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4733 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
I have also read the MSW instructions (MSPEEDWAX | Molten Speed Wax - How To Clean Your Bicycle Chain Before Hot Waxing) and the alcohol after mineral spirits part does not make sense. To the extent that mineral spirits leave a residue (which I don't see), I think an acetone bath would work better to chase that off.
My guess is the alcohol step is to just flush out the OMS and help ensure the chain is dry before going into the wax pot. Presumably, you want the wax to adhere to the steel surfaces, not be potentially blocked from doing so by a layer of wet OMS? OTOH Cycco seems to suggest that OMS can't hurt and might help. In theory this would mean you could consider adding an ounce or whatnot to the crockpot wax and mix it in before adding the chain?
#55
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,362
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,218 Times
in
2,365 Posts
So.. my unscientific science project results. I poured about the same amount (guessing about 1/2 teaspoon) each onto an alu foil lined paper plate of OMS and Denatured Alcohol (FUEL/Ethanol). In about 20 mins the ethanol was gone. 1.5 hrs later there's still a decent puddle of the OMS.
My guess is the alcohol step is to just flush out the OMS and help ensure the chain is dry before going into the wax pot.
Presumably, you want the wax to adhere to the steel surfaces, not be potentially blocked from doing so by a layer of wet OMS?
OTOH Cycco seems to suggest that OMS can't hurt and might help. In theory this would mean you could consider adding an ounce or whatnot to the crockpot wax and mix it in before adding the chain?
Please DO NOT put mineral spirits in the wax and heat it. Heating solvents increase the vapor pressure over the wax and will result in a flammable vapor. Putting new chain lubricant (a wax itself) in hot wax is okay. Putting OMS in the wax is BAD!
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#56
Live not by lies.
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,306
Bikes: BigBox bikes.
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 860 Post(s)
Liked 784 Times
in
582 Posts
Being cheap I carefully use gasoline. When I am worried about parts that contain plastic or rubber I use automatic transmission fluid or the old WD40. Marvel Mystery Oil is also an excellent cleaner. And lets not forget Diesel and Simple Green. Gone are the old Army days of using Barsol and MEK.
NOT
NOT
Almost like the crud evaporated.
#57
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,635
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4733 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
Kudos! You’ve confirmed what chemists have known for at least 150 years and maybe for a couple of hundred years. Ethanol has a higher vapor pressure than mineral spirits. That is reflected in the lower flash point of ethanol. Basically, the higher the vapor pressure over the liquid, the more easier it is set it on fire.
Yes, except they suggest letting the OMS evaporate over night. There’s not going to be any mineral spirits in the chain. I’m fairly certain that they suggest an alcohol wash to remove any residual OMS that they think may not have evaporated. They also think…mistakenly…that the mineral spirits doesn’t allow the wax to adhere to the metal of the chain. They are using a belts, suspenders, duct tape, staples, surgical sutures, and fish hooks (the barbed kind) approach.
It’s not the wet OMS, per say, but any associated previous oil that the 47 washes failed to remove…a three molecules of it
It’s not the wet OMS, per say, but any associated previous oil that the 47 washes failed to remove…a three molecules of it
6. Place chain in clean container, cover with new mineral spirits and shake for one minute (3rd and final bath). Note: if mineral spirits not clear after 3rd bath, repeat bathing process with new mineral spirits until clear. Also note amount of dark residue on rag after wiping chain; repeat bathing process until residue is slight (or eliminated entirely for fastest chain).
7. Remove and wipe chain after final mineral spirits bath, empty used mineral spirits, wipe container and lid clean with paper towels
8. Place chain in container, cover with denatured alcohol, shake for one minute, remove chain and wipe clean (use new rag so chain isn't contaminated by mineral spirits from wiping chain in previous steps)
9. Clean container and lid. Note: turn container upside down during final cleaning with paper towels to facilitate removing any remaining filings or debris from bottom of container
10. Repeat alcohol bath (alcohol bath #2), shaking for one minute
11. Remove chain, wipe aggressively with rag, hang to dry for a minimum of 15 minutes before waxing. Note: for fastest chain repeat denatured alcohol step until no filings or debris remain in bottom of container and rag shows no residue from wiping chain
Hold yer horses there, buckaroo! Not what I said. Any previous lubricant left after washing with mineral spirits would be removed by the hot wax since it is a solvent in liquid form (it’s also a solvent in solid form but that’s a different discussion). That lubricant isn’t going to hurt the wax and might be beneficial since it reduces the viscosity of the wax (makes it “softer”).
Please DO NOT put mineral spirits in the wax and heat it. Heating solvents increase the vapor pressure over the wax and will result in a flammable vapor. Putting new chain lubricant (a wax itself) in hot wax is okay. Putting OMS in the wax is BAD!
Please DO NOT put mineral spirits in the wax and heat it. Heating solvents increase the vapor pressure over the wax and will result in a flammable vapor. Putting new chain lubricant (a wax itself) in hot wax is okay. Putting OMS in the wax is BAD!
#58
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,657
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata GRX
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1944 Post(s)
Liked 1,467 Times
in
1,016 Posts
Yes, except they suggest letting the OMS evaporate over night. There’s not going to be any mineral spirits in the chain. ...
Please DO NOT put mineral spirits in the wax and heat it. Heating solvents increase the vapor pressure over the wax and will result in a flammable vapor. Putting new chain lubricant (a wax itself) in hot wax is okay. Putting OMS in the wax is BAD!
Please DO NOT put mineral spirits in the wax and heat it. Heating solvents increase the vapor pressure over the wax and will result in a flammable vapor. Putting new chain lubricant (a wax itself) in hot wax is okay. Putting OMS in the wax is BAD!
#59
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,362
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,218 Times
in
2,365 Posts
Sounds reasonable. The point of my 'experiment' originally was to see of after evaporation what kinda film might be left on the aluminum foil. I gave up after a couple hours waiting and dumped the OMS. Not sure why, I thought the OMS would evaporate more quickly than it was apparently doing. Anyway, I never did find out what, if any film I could detect after evaporation as my patience gave out.
FWIW, This excerpt of the instructions (steps 7 to 8) that was being referred to, doesn't indicate any wait time before alcohol dunking after OMS.
6. Place chain in clean container, cover with new mineral spirits and shake for one minute (3rd and final bath). Note: if mineral spirits not clear after 3rd bath, repeat bathing process with new mineral spirits until clear. Also note amount of dark residue on rag after wiping chain; repeat bathing process until residue is slight (or eliminated entirely for fastest chain).
7. Remove and wipe chain after final mineral spirits bath, empty used mineral spirits, wipe container and lid clean with paper towels
8. Place chain in container, cover with denatured alcohol, shake for one minute, remove chain and wipe clean (use new rag so chain isn't contaminated by mineral spirits from wiping chain in previous steps)
9. Clean container and lid. Note: turn container upside down during final cleaning with paper towels to facilitate removing any remaining filings or debris from bottom of container
10. Repeat alcohol bath (alcohol bath #2), shaking for one minute
11. Remove chain, wipe aggressively with rag, hang to dry for a minimum of 15 minutes before waxing. Note: for fastest chain repeat denatured alcohol step until no filings or debris remain in bottom of container and rag shows no residue from wiping chain
No, a small amount won’t cause problems. Methane, butane, naphtha, mineral spirits, kerosene, and wax (as well as others) are all part of what is called a homologous series of hydrocarbons meaning that they are all related in properties and molecular structure. They will all dissolve in each other (butane and methane are harder to dissolve but they will) so in a melt of wax, the OMS will just dissolve up into the wax. A residual amount of OMS in the wax won’t be a problem. Don’t go pouring a cup of it into the wax. Bad idea.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 712
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Liked 262 Times
in
164 Posts
I think I could do my hoovering, dusting, make bread, and walk the dogs in the time it would take me to clean a bike chain properly. If my time is worth anything I should just Amazon me a new chain every time the previous one gets dirty.
Likes For grizzly59:
#61
Live not by lies.
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,306
Bikes: BigBox bikes.
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 860 Post(s)
Liked 784 Times
in
582 Posts
Just an idea.
But like you, I was thinking about all these super lube/wax techniques. “that’s an awful lot of work for a ~$30
part that’s a consumable anyway.”
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,545
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1528 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
When I lube stuff, I try to put only enough lube to do the job, only where the job is. When I lube a chain, it's a manually placed drop at every roller and the chain gets thoroughly wiped a few times afterwards as the lube works out.
Almost everybody uses more lube than me. Folks say to liberally grease cassette splines, but that's rubbish - leave them dry. Just do the lockring tight enough, which by the way is only about half or maybe 2/3 the recommended 40Nm. (The main reason people experience problems here is the profusion of unreinforced aluminium Shimano splines, while the spline pattern is obviously meant to be in steel - the only workaround is a billet cassette, not grease and thread-stripping torque.)
Last edited by Kimmo; 09-18-21 at 06:33 PM.
Likes For Kimmo:
#63
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,657
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata GRX
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1944 Post(s)
Liked 1,467 Times
in
1,016 Posts
#64
Junior Member
Soaking in a tupperware container of WD40 works
Soaking in a container of diesel or gasoline works better and faster
Wear proper gloves, use proper container and do it in a ventilated area plus some common sense if using gas of course
If using fuel, remove and let dry on a rag or cardboard, then rinse it out with some isopropyl alcohol, shake and compressed air dry or put it infront of a fan for a few.
Soaking in a container of diesel or gasoline works better and faster
Wear proper gloves, use proper container and do it in a ventilated area plus some common sense if using gas of course
If using fuel, remove and let dry on a rag or cardboard, then rinse it out with some isopropyl alcohol, shake and compressed air dry or put it infront of a fan for a few.
#65
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Soaking in a tupperware container of WD40 works
Soaking in a container of diesel or gasoline works better and faster
Wear proper gloves, use proper container and do it in a ventilated area plus some common sense if using gas of course
If using fuel, remove and let dry on a rag or cardboard, then rinse it out with some isopropyl alcohol, shake and compressed air dry or put it infront of a fan for a few.
Soaking in a container of diesel or gasoline works better and faster
Wear proper gloves, use proper container and do it in a ventilated area plus some common sense if using gas of course
If using fuel, remove and let dry on a rag or cardboard, then rinse it out with some isopropyl alcohol, shake and compressed air dry or put it infront of a fan for a few.
Likes For cyrano138:
#66
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,362
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,218 Times
in
2,365 Posts
Why not use mineral spirits? It’s the solvent without the 25% mineral oil that WD-40 contains. It’s also cheaper in greater quantities.
No. Neither of those work any better nor faster than mineral spirits. Diesel is oily and gasoline is just too hazardous. For those people who go around suggesting gasoline for cleaning solvent, why don’t you go down to your local firehouse and ask a fireman how they feel about you using gasoline in large (or even small) quantities for cleaning parts. Make sure you give them your address so that they know what to expect when you set your house on fire.
“Common sense” would dictate that you use the least hazardous solvent. In other words, don’t use gasoline
.
So let me get this straight: you are suggesting taking a highly flammable material and putting it on an absorbent surface so that it has a higher surface area? And/or spraying a flammable solvent into a mist? Great idea. Tell the firemen about that too.
Soaking in a container of diesel or gasoline works better and faster
Wear proper gloves, use proper container and do it in a ventilated area plus some common sense if using gas of course
.
If using fuel, remove and let dry on a rag or cardboard, then rinse it out with some isopropyl alcohol, shake and compressed air dry or put it infront of a fan for a few.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#67
don't try this at home.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,939
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 973 Post(s)
Liked 511 Times
in
351 Posts
I used to clean chains by shaking them in a two liter bottle with a few cups of mineral spirits. Pour off into another bottle to save it. It does settle out the black gunk and is reusable. (I don't do this anymore, I just wipe off the chain with a dampen mineral spirits rag, and relube. It seems to last just as long.)
Last edited by rm -rf; 09-19-21 at 10:09 AM.
#68
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,657
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata GRX
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1944 Post(s)
Liked 1,467 Times
in
1,016 Posts
This. All my gear wipes clean with a dry rag.
When I lube stuff, I try to put only enough lube to do the job, only where the job is. When I lube a chain, it's a manually placed drop at every roller and the chain gets thoroughly wiped a few times afterwards as the lube works out.
When I lube stuff, I try to put only enough lube to do the job, only where the job is. When I lube a chain, it's a manually placed drop at every roller and the chain gets thoroughly wiped a few times afterwards as the lube works out.
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,545
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1528 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
Before going to wax, I used to do the same as you, only 1 or 2 drops per roller, follow by thorough wiping. I did this every 150 miles, but I could never achieve a chain which just wipes clean with a clean rag. (This took longer than my maintenance routine with wax.) Perhaps the environment in Oz is more pristine than the OC.
#70
Senior Member
I find WD40 works good for cutting grease. I only using small amounts of it for cleaning stuff like derailleurs and cassettes.
For chains I use Rock N Roll Gold lube. I apply it, then wipe it off and a lot of dirt and grime comes off.
I don't feel a need to get the chain so clean that I need to soak it in solvent.
For chains I use Rock N Roll Gold lube. I apply it, then wipe it off and a lot of dirt and grime comes off.
I don't feel a need to get the chain so clean that I need to soak it in solvent.
Likes For msu2001la:
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,901
Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2604 Post(s)
Liked 1,928 Times
in
1,210 Posts
#73
Full Member
That being said, I'm going to use vodka instead as I've had a half a bottle in my freezer for 4 years, 'bout time I freed up that space.
#74
Junior Member
Mineral spirits still work wonderfully. I rarely soak anything. I'll put the part into something like a tupperware tub and then put a small amount of mineral spirts in a cup and using an old tooth brush dip it into the cup and then scrub the part. When done, I store the used mineral spirits in a plastic screw top container and sometimes use it again. The problem with mineral spirits is that it's hazardous waste so you have to wait for your town to have a hazardous waste collection day to get rid of it.
#75
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,657
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata GRX
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1944 Post(s)
Liked 1,467 Times
in
1,016 Posts
Household Hazardous Waste | OC Waste & Recycling (oclandfills.com)
Used odorless mineral spirits would qualify both as a "solvent" and "paint thinner" under the items accepted:
HousewholdHazardousWasteFactSheet_OCRecycleGuide(7) (oclandfills.com)