Simplex Prestige pully wheels with no teeth
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Simplex Prestige pully wheels with no teeth
Hello friends, I am in the middle of a 1970 PX-10, unfortunately both the original front and rear derailleurs were cracked but I have a 1972 parts bike with working replacements. Both rear derailleurs have ball bearing pully wheels but the donor derailleur has pully wheels with no teeth (see pics). The original derailleur has normal looking pulleys that will fit so I can use either set of wheels on the build. I've never seen pulleys like this and I can't find another Simplex derailleur on the internet with them either. Two questions:
1. What are these toothless wheels and should I use them or replace them with the traditional pulleys?
2. Are these ball bearing pully wheels meant to be serviced? Both sets are moving decently but I would still like to clean and re-grease the bearings--I can't find anything on servicing these types of wheels--any help would be greatly appreciated.
1. What are these toothless wheels and should I use them or replace them with the traditional pulleys?
2. Are these ball bearing pully wheels meant to be serviced? Both sets are moving decently but I would still like to clean and re-grease the bearings--I can't find anything on servicing these types of wheels--any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Simplex Criterium Ball Bearing Pulleys
Simplex used pulleys with adjustable ball bearings and molded plastic teeth on their top of the line derailleurs from 1960 to the early 1970's.
This is from a 1960 German Simplex catalog. The right drawing shows the molded plastic teeth on the steel bearing body. The adjust uses a simple notch at the top of the "cones".
Simplex improved the bearing adjustment feature a few years later with large slots in the cones.
They continued to use this style on their then top of the line Criterium model until the early 70's.
The plastic "teeth" are over 50 years old. They were never designed or intended to last more that 5-10 years.
Use the pulleys from the later RD and when they break get some replacements without the ball bearings....
verktyg
This is from a 1960 German Simplex catalog. The right drawing shows the molded plastic teeth on the steel bearing body. The adjust uses a simple notch at the top of the "cones".
Simplex improved the bearing adjustment feature a few years later with large slots in the cones.
They continued to use this style on their then top of the line Criterium model until the early 70's.
The plastic "teeth" are over 50 years old. They were never designed or intended to last more that 5-10 years.
Use the pulleys from the later RD and when they break get some replacements without the ball bearings....
verktyg
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Last edited by verktyg; 03-05-22 at 10:34 AM.
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The signiificantly reduced diameter indicates that the teeth have broken off and/or worn down to the point where there are no longer traces of them. Simplex patented the first toothed pulley wheels in 1956.
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Simplex used pulleys with adjustable ball bearings and molded plastic teeth on their top of the line derailleurs from 1960 to the early 1970's.
This is from a 1960 German Simplex catalog. The right drawing shows the molded plastic teeth on the steel bearing body. The adjust uses a simple notch at the top of the "cones".
Simplex improved the bearing adjustment feature a few years later with large slots in the cones.
They continued to use this style on their then top of the line Criterium model until the early 70's.
The plastic "teeth" are over 50 years old. They were never designed or intended to last more that 5-10 years.
Use the pulleys from the later RD and when they break get some replacements without the ball bearings....
verktyg
This is from a 1960 German Simplex catalog. The right drawing shows the molded plastic teeth on the steel bearing body. The adjust uses a simple notch at the top of the "cones".
Simplex improved the bearing adjustment feature a few years later with large slots in the cones.
They continued to use this style on their then top of the line Criterium model until the early 70's.
The plastic "teeth" are over 50 years old. They were never designed or intended to last more that 5-10 years.
Use the pulleys from the later RD and when they break get some replacements without the ball bearings....
verktyg
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I don't think that's it--the edges are perfectly smooth--if the teeth broke off I think there would be some evidence of it.
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It’s had 50 years to be changed and modified. I never assume parts are original. And given five decades, that’s plenty of time for changes.
I’ve also seen some stupid modifications, holes drilled in frames for example. One bike the owner wanted to attach a bottle cage to a bike with no bottle braze ons. So he drilled two holes in the frame and used sheet metal screws to attach a cage. Picked up a Klein once that originally came with blue fade to green paint. Owner didn’t like it and rattlecanned it white with yellow drop outs.
I’ve also seen some stupid modifications, holes drilled in frames for example. One bike the owner wanted to attach a bottle cage to a bike with no bottle braze ons. So he drilled two holes in the frame and used sheet metal screws to attach a cage. Picked up a Klein once that originally came with blue fade to green paint. Owner didn’t like it and rattlecanned it white with yellow drop outs.
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I've seen metal toothless derailleur jockey wheels that look more or less like normal Jockeys, but with no teeth.
But, nothing quite like the ones above.
I think what @verktyg was suggesting is that there was a hard inner core with plastic teeth, and that the outer jacket was just lost to time.
I'd clean up the TOOTHED jockey wheels that you have and use them. Make sure you lube with a heavy oil, and not grease.
But, nothing quite like the ones above.
I think what @verktyg was suggesting is that there was a hard inner core with plastic teeth, and that the outer jacket was just lost to time.
I'd clean up the TOOTHED jockey wheels that you have and use them. Make sure you lube with a heavy oil, and not grease.
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Thanks so much!! Any idea how the toothless wheels ended up on this derailleur? The parts bike is a 1972 PX-10 that had some weird parts on it (including suicide levers) so it's possible someone replaced the standard pulleys with something different I just can't figure out why anyone would want pulleys with no teeth.
Freres Huret have produced gazillions of toothless pulleys for their gear mechs -
-----
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I've seen metal toothless derailleur jockey wheels that look more or less like normal Jockeys, but with no teeth.
But, nothing quite like the ones above.
I think what @verktyg was suggesting is that there was a hard inner core with plastic teeth, and that the outer jacket was just lost to time.
I'd clean up the TOOTHED jockey wheels that you have and use them. Make sure you lube with a heavy oil, and not grease.
But, nothing quite like the ones above.
I think what @verktyg was suggesting is that there was a hard inner core with plastic teeth, and that the outer jacket was just lost to time.
I'd clean up the TOOTHED jockey wheels that you have and use them. Make sure you lube with a heavy oil, and not grease.
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It’s had 50 years to be changed and modified. I never assume parts are original. And given five decades, that’s plenty of time for changes.
I’ve also seen some stupid modifications, holes drilled in frames for example. One bike the owner wanted to attach a bottle cage to a bike with no bottle braze ons. So he drilled two holes in the frame and used sheet metal screws to attach a cage. Picked up a Klein once that originally came with blue fade to green paint. Owner didn’t like it and rattlecanned it white with yellow drop outs.
I’ve also seen some stupid modifications, holes drilled in frames for example. One bike the owner wanted to attach a bottle cage to a bike with no bottle braze ons. So he drilled two holes in the frame and used sheet metal screws to attach a cage. Picked up a Klein once that originally came with blue fade to green paint. Owner didn’t like it and rattlecanned it white with yellow drop outs.
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If you must have something that really looks vintage and says SIMPLEX but dependably functions well:
Here is your simple x solution. Have a trophy shop make you a mylar-chrome like, bumper sticker quality decal that says SIMPLEX, just like it reads on the Simplex Prestige derailleur so that this decal affixes to one of the following good ancient vintage rear derailleurs:
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...leur_lk10.html
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...leur_sl10.html
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...ur_de-100.html
All that you'll need to do before affixing the SIMPLEX decal that you have made, is to spend two minutes with your Dremel tool grinding the existing raised name to a smooth enough flat surface to affix your SIMPLEX decal there. Obviously, you will need to size your SIMPLEX decal accordingly so that it fits within the space so that it looks like it came from the factory.
A SIMPLEX Prestige rear derailleur is a piece of trash, even in the best condition, compared to any Shimano or Maeda SUN TOUR unit from fifty years ago!
Here is your simple x solution. Have a trophy shop make you a mylar-chrome like, bumper sticker quality decal that says SIMPLEX, just like it reads on the Simplex Prestige derailleur so that this decal affixes to one of the following good ancient vintage rear derailleurs:
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...leur_lk10.html
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...leur_sl10.html
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...ur_de-100.html
All that you'll need to do before affixing the SIMPLEX decal that you have made, is to spend two minutes with your Dremel tool grinding the existing raised name to a smooth enough flat surface to affix your SIMPLEX decal there. Obviously, you will need to size your SIMPLEX decal accordingly so that it fits within the space so that it looks like it came from the factory.
A SIMPLEX Prestige rear derailleur is a piece of trash, even in the best condition, compared to any Shimano or Maeda SUN TOUR unit from fifty years ago!
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I might be wrong, but AFAIK, it was Huret that had the toothless jockey wheels on some of their derailleurs.....
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Which suffered terribly. They had no seals and the adjustment was locked only by the friction of the fixing screw. Being where they were they were ignored:
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If you must have something that really looks vintage and says SIMPLEX but dependably functions well:
Here is your simple x solution. Have a trophy shop make you a mylar-chrome like, bumper sticker quality decal that says SIMPLEX, just like it reads on the Simplex Prestige derailleur so that this decal affixes to one of the following good ancient vintage rear derailleurs:
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...leur_lk10.html
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...leur_sl10.html
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...ur_de-100.html
All that you'll need to do before affixing the SIMPLEX decal that you have made, is to spend two minutes with your Dremel tool grinding the existing raised name to a smooth enough flat surface to affix your SIMPLEX decal there. Obviously, you will need to size your SIMPLEX decal accordingly so that it fits within the space so that it looks like it came from the factory.
A SIMPLEX Prestige rear derailleur is a piece of trash, even in the best condition, compared to any Shimano or Maeda SUN TOUR unit from fifty years ago!
Here is your simple x solution. Have a trophy shop make you a mylar-chrome like, bumper sticker quality decal that says SIMPLEX, just like it reads on the Simplex Prestige derailleur so that this decal affixes to one of the following good ancient vintage rear derailleurs:
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...leur_lk10.html
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...leur_sl10.html
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...ur_de-100.html
All that you'll need to do before affixing the SIMPLEX decal that you have made, is to spend two minutes with your Dremel tool grinding the existing raised name to a smooth enough flat surface to affix your SIMPLEX decal there. Obviously, you will need to size your SIMPLEX decal accordingly so that it fits within the space so that it looks like it came from the factory.
A SIMPLEX Prestige rear derailleur is a piece of trash, even in the best condition, compared to any Shimano or Maeda SUN TOUR unit from fifty years ago!
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I said oil. And, that is probably best for bushings. But, ball bearings may benefit from grease.
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The toothless design was industry standard until Simplex introduced their toothed design and popularized the toothed concept in the late 1950s. For instance, Campagnolo didn't introduce toothed jockey and toggle wheels until the mid-1960s. Huret is often remembered for their toothless jockey and toggle wheels because they were the last holdout among the major derailleur manufacturers, continuing to use the toothless design on most of their models through to the end the early 1970s bicycle boom.
Last edited by T-Mar; 03-06-22 at 07:28 AM.
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I did state "broken off and/or worn down". Yours have worn down past the valley of the teeth, to the wider central hub. Soon they will no longer be contact the rollers of the chain and the chain will be riding on it's side plates. These should be replaced, immediately.
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#19
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Uh-oh Simplex bashing. I think the Simplex Prestige is a fine derailleur. Most of my bikes have them. The long cage version is really nice, silky smooth shifts. But I am a euro-snob. Shimano, SunTour....pass.
#20
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#21
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Still Suntour derailleurs from the late 1970s and early 1980s functioned best, were better made, jockey wheels are usually still good, and the lower models are still available at low cost. Vx and higher have started going up in price. But I have seen Simplex Prestige rear derailleurs used on eBay bring Vx type money or more. This one with worn jockey wheels and rusty cage sold for $50, which to me, is ridiculous.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/28467207738...p2047675.l2557
Last edited by wrk101; 03-06-22 at 11:30 AM.