Zwift questions and impressions
12-11-19, 01:52 PM
#76
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Apparently other people have looked into this-
https://zwiftinsider.com/how-height-...peed-in-zwift/
https://zwiftinsider.com/how-height-...peed-in-zwift/
12-11-19, 02:34 PM
#77
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Another thing that annoys me is that Zwift seems to rely more on w/Kg for speed on flat ground than on outright power. **WARNING: ZWIFT KILL STORY FOLLOWS***
I was doing my thing this morning and trying to drop some guy from Korea who sat on my wheel and gave me a ride on.
I was sitting at about 250 watts and when trying to drop him I'd ramp up to 350-400 over and over again (around 4.5-5 w/Kg at my weight). I could see in the game he was ramping up to the same w/Kg numbers and would keep catching back up after I'd get a 2-3 second gap and let off a bit. Anyway, eventually I got annoyed and actually launched a full on sprint and then settled into an extended 380 watt effort and got 15 seconds on him, and then left the game (plus I hit my time goal). Out of curiosity I checked the Zwift app after the ride, found him, and I could see he was touching 230-240 watts at the points where I was doing 400 yet he had the same w/Kg ratio, so assuming he really is a 120 lb lightweight, he still shouldn't have been able to hang on to a 400 watt surge on flat ground while pushing 240 watts, right?
Only thing I can come up with is maybe the game's calculation of my drag based on my height is forcing me to put out far more power to push through the virtual air than this presumably much smaller guy? Would the added drag on a 6'3" person riding a 60cm bike compared to a, say, 5'2" person on a 48cm bike really require more than 150% more power to go the same speed?
I was doing my thing this morning and trying to drop some guy from Korea who sat on my wheel and gave me a ride on.
I was sitting at about 250 watts and when trying to drop him I'd ramp up to 350-400 over and over again (around 4.5-5 w/Kg at my weight). I could see in the game he was ramping up to the same w/Kg numbers and would keep catching back up after I'd get a 2-3 second gap and let off a bit. Anyway, eventually I got annoyed and actually launched a full on sprint and then settled into an extended 380 watt effort and got 15 seconds on him, and then left the game (plus I hit my time goal). Out of curiosity I checked the Zwift app after the ride, found him, and I could see he was touching 230-240 watts at the points where I was doing 400 yet he had the same w/Kg ratio, so assuming he really is a 120 lb lightweight, he still shouldn't have been able to hang on to a 400 watt surge on flat ground while pushing 240 watts, right?
Only thing I can come up with is maybe the game's calculation of my drag based on my height is forcing me to put out far more power to push through the virtual air than this presumably much smaller guy? Would the added drag on a 6'3" person riding a 60cm bike compared to a, say, 5'2" person on a 48cm bike really require more than 150% more power to go the same speed?
12-11-19, 06:05 PM
#78
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Apparently other people have looked into this-
https://zwiftinsider.com/how-height-...peed-in-zwift/
https://zwiftinsider.com/how-height-...peed-in-zwift/
I still think main driver of your concern is Zwift over-values effect of draft compared to real conditions.
12-12-19, 08:00 AM
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Perhaps, but I've always been under the impression that if you drope the hamer and get at least a 6m gap on the rider behind, they "lose" the draft boost, no? That's always been my approach to trying to drop strangers.
12-12-19, 08:08 AM
#80
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In real life I don't like uninvited drafters, but in Zwift? Who cares? At least not when just free riding. And I can't say that the draft effect is that strong in Zwift, at least not in my experience.
12-12-19, 08:11 AM
#81
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Correct. But you can pedal so much more easily at 25MPH in a group compared to solo. I think the benefit it gives you for drafting is greater than reality.
12-12-19, 09:13 AM
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I care. A lot. And they care when they expect a Ride On in return but instead get a 500 watt kick in the teeth.
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12-12-19, 10:24 AM
#83
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The only time I care about people drafting off me in Zwift is when I and that person happen to be simultaneously going for a segment jersey, however that can spice things up too. I also mind in a race if we're in a break and they just sit back and draft completely refusing to pull. Other than that I find it entertaining when someone sticks by me, especially when I see them change direction just to stay with me, I'll normally wave and it will generally make it a more enjoyable experience, not everything needs to be a measuring contest.
As to people staying on you with a relatively similar w/kg but far fewer watts on flat ground, I find it to be pretty similar to outside. I've had many occasions in real life where I'm riding on flat ground and the guy in front me does a 400 watt dig and tail them around 250-300 watt easily. In fact (similar to the game) the only situations where I have people genuinely break away from me is on some small kicker, if I'm in a break, not really trying to pull, and the guy ahead wants to drop me (even though I'm quite lightweight at 135lbs) he can do 400-500 watts all he wants and I'll just smile as I'm sitting in around 250-300, it's when he hits a sharp incline and ups it to 700 watts for 10 seconds that some damage can really be done.
I will say though, I find it entertaining just sweet-spotting around on Zwift at 4.5-4.7 w/kg and having a heavier guy hang on (with much higher watts) at around 3.5 w/kg, then hitting a long climb and seeing them peter out only a couple of minutes in. Sometimes though I'll hit the U-turn and stay with them (unless a Jersy is on the line...)
As to people staying on you with a relatively similar w/kg but far fewer watts on flat ground, I find it to be pretty similar to outside. I've had many occasions in real life where I'm riding on flat ground and the guy in front me does a 400 watt dig and tail them around 250-300 watt easily. In fact (similar to the game) the only situations where I have people genuinely break away from me is on some small kicker, if I'm in a break, not really trying to pull, and the guy ahead wants to drop me (even though I'm quite lightweight at 135lbs) he can do 400-500 watts all he wants and I'll just smile as I'm sitting in around 250-300, it's when he hits a sharp incline and ups it to 700 watts for 10 seconds that some damage can really be done.
I will say though, I find it entertaining just sweet-spotting around on Zwift at 4.5-4.7 w/kg and having a heavier guy hang on (with much higher watts) at around 3.5 w/kg, then hitting a long climb and seeing them peter out only a couple of minutes in. Sometimes though I'll hit the U-turn and stay with them (unless a Jersy is on the line...)
12-12-19, 11:12 AM
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Happens on the road all the time: out doing a set of intervals and some joker hops on your wheel for a free ride. As far as I'm concerned, it just enhances the reality of the Zwift experience.
12-12-19, 11:33 AM
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12-12-19, 03:53 PM
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12-12-19, 04:12 PM
#88
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Wow, that's great to know. I had no idea. I honestly thought that the only options for customizing your route were at the intersections.
This is another "mind blown" game changer for me.
This is another "mind blown" game changer for me.
12-12-19, 04:15 PM
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12-12-19, 04:51 PM
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I will say, there have been times where I'm killing myself for a climb or a segment in Zwift, only to accidentally hit the u-turn command which completely nullifies the effort. Kinda annoying.
12-12-19, 04:52 PM
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I run it off my iPad, with a hdmi cable to a TV.
12-12-19, 05:38 PM
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You really wanna blow your mind? Get up to 36MPH downhill (3% or better) and stop pedaling. SUPERTUCK!
12-12-19, 05:56 PM
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When I tried running it directly on my phone, I found it too difficult to control, with sweaty fingers and all. I run it on my 27" iMac with a wireless keyboard and mouse next to the bike. For the most part though I don't touch it.
12-12-19, 08:52 PM
#96
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I'm going through a laptop to monitor, so I'm guessing that's why I don't see an iOs option (whatever that is).
12-12-19, 09:08 PM
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For PC users, here you go:
https://zwiftinsider.com/keyboard-shortcuts/
https://zwiftinsider.com/keyboard-shortcuts/
12-13-19, 07:12 AM
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However, to be clear, there are 2 Zwift "apps". One is the actual zwift software that runs and records your route and where you select sensors, worlds, training workouts, etc. This is available for Windows, android, iOS (including apple tv). The other is the companion app that runs on a phone in which you can have some input to the software after starting. The companion app allows turns/U-turs, ride-ons, chatting, etc. You can also sign up for events with the companion app. As far as I know it is available for Android and iOS.
12-13-19, 07:24 AM
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I recently got set up for Zwift and find it fun and engaging - love the concept. But the rides are all flat and pretty boring; I keep my front wheel raised to a 5% grade since climbs is where I want continuous, sustained power, so that's the riding position that matters to me, but there are no sustained climbs in the game (yes, I said it - game). I don't particularly like the video game like aspects of it. The training programs or rides or whatever they're called, well on those I can't find a way to bypass the warmup. I usually get on the trainer after riding home from work, which is plenty of warmup for me, and I really don't need or want a second warmup. I can't find any way to skip past that part though. As for the game aspects, I can't see why they don't use the technology to level out differences in equipment to normalize efforts, then if people want handicaps they could just turn a handicap dial. Everyone else could see what handicap they're riding on when in a group, which is perfectly fine to keep a ride no-drop. For races and competitive rides they could simply disable all handicaps. The whole thing with "upgrades" and buffs and stuff, that looks pretty sketchy to me and doesn't add anything, and definitely isn't "fun". But, even though as a training tool it's kinda so so, the experience is great, it's just the video game aspects that are a little off-putting. I don't want to "level up", I want to train.
Yeah, that's pretty rambly first impressions.
Yeah, that's pretty rambly first impressions.
To skip a workout block, use the onscreen workout menu on a mobile device, or press the tab key on a computer.
When other people have fun with the game, does it limit your ability to train?
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12-13-19, 07:49 AM
#100
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There are only 2 gaming aspect of Zwift that I pay attention to. First, I like to get the +30XP for completing a mile so I'll always ride it out before I quit, and second is that I do the sprints and other competitive segments. At least on the sprints I've come in the top 10 a few times, but I can never come in at #1 because there is always someone that is far and above everyone else due to, well let's not call it cheating as much as not being on a smart trainer with realistic output. I was in that boat (or on that bike) before I bought my Assioma pedals, and then a Kickr Core. And on the KOMs I just try to place somewhere in the middle.
But if you aren't into the gaming aspects of it just ignore it.
For climbs, yes the radio tower route is kind of a killer. It is steeper than anything I would attempt in real life, although maybe with the right gearing. I tried Mt. Haleakala in Maui with a 34/27 combo but felt like I ran out of gas on the steep hairpins. If I had a lower gear like a 34/34 as I did a few weeks ago on another rental, I could possibly have spun it out until it leveled off. And speaking of Mt. Haleakala, there is a video in Rouvy for it. I found it harder to ride indoors than in real life. There's a thread on how realistic Rouvy is or isn't somewhere here too.
But if you aren't into the gaming aspects of it just ignore it.
For climbs, yes the radio tower route is kind of a killer. It is steeper than anything I would attempt in real life, although maybe with the right gearing. I tried Mt. Haleakala in Maui with a 34/27 combo but felt like I ran out of gas on the steep hairpins. If I had a lower gear like a 34/34 as I did a few weeks ago on another rental, I could possibly have spun it out until it leveled off. And speaking of Mt. Haleakala, there is a video in Rouvy for it. I found it harder to ride indoors than in real life. There's a thread on how realistic Rouvy is or isn't somewhere here too.