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Riding on the road when thereís bike lanes

Old 09-27-22, 02:44 PM
  #126  
Maelochs
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Here in the real world where I live, there's only two protected bike lanes in town. One of them has 17 driveways and cross streets in three blocks. Cyclists have stop signs at every driveway, and even with green paint, most drivers don't bother checking the bike lane before making a turn.
Seriously? Under what circumstances would this Ever be a good place to ride a bike?

I don't have @rsbob's litany of research (science is fake anyway .... and so are birds) but I know that the easiest way to get flattened in urban/dense shopping district roadway is idiots looking through bikes when pulling out of driveways ... lots of places where there is no choice but to ride past endless strip malls, and roadside businesses, and every driveway is a potentially lethal challenge ... I have had a couple of ridiculously close avoidances (like sub-four inches) when idiots looked right through me and pulled out .... and with traffic going both ways, sometimes in multiple lanes (and with my favorite, the bi-directional turn-lane) and there is No way to include Safe bike lanes in those areas.

IMO.
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Old 09-27-22, 02:45 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Seriously? Under what circumstances would this Ever be a good place to ride a bike?

I don't have @rsbob's litany of research (science is fake anyway .... and so are birds) but I know that the easiest way to get flattened in urban/dense shopping district roadway is idiots looking through bikes when pulling out of driveways ... lots of places where there is no choice but to ride past endless strip malls, and roadside businesses, and every driveway is a potentially lethal challenge ... I have had a couple of ridiculously close avoidances (like sub-four inches) when idiots looked right through me and pulled out .... and with traffic going both ways, sometimes in multiple lanes (and with my favorite, the bi-directional turn-lane) and there is No way to include Safe bike lanes in those areas.

IMO.
That's why I ride in the traffic lane a block to either side of that street.
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Old 09-27-22, 05:23 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Seriously? Under what circumstances would this Ever be a good place to ride a bike?

I don't have @rsbob's litany of research (science is fake anyway .... and so are birds) but I know that the easiest way to get flattened in urban/dense shopping district roadway is idiots looking through bikes when pulling out of driveways ... lots of places where there is no choice but to ride past endless strip malls, and roadside businesses, and every driveway is a potentially lethal challenge ... I have had a couple of ridiculously close avoidances (like sub-four inches) when idiots looked right through me and pulled out .... and with traffic going both ways, sometimes in multiple lanes (and with my favorite, the bi-directional turn-lane) and there is No way to include Safe bike lanes in those areas.

IMO.
Acknowledging that birds arenít real shows that you are a man of Letters and Science with shrewd analytical abilities. I bow down to you sir.

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Old 09-28-22, 05:06 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
That's why I ride in the traffic lane a block to either side of that street.
That's very sensible, I'd probably do the same. It's not a reason to condemn the use of bike lanes generally.

Also, I lived on a street that cyclists generally avoided, extremely hard to avoid riding on it. I don't if I would or would not have been safer if a bike lane had been implemented.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:49 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That's very sensible, I'd probably do the same. It's not a reason to condemn the use of bike lanes generally.

Also, I lived on a street that cyclists generally avoided, extremely hard to avoid riding on it. I don't if I would or would not have been safer if a bike lane had been implemented.
I agree, not all bike lanes are that bad. The problem is that some are (and a few are arguably worse). And that makes intelligent conversation about bike lanes impossible when someone uses broad strokes to refer to all bike lanes.

It also makes me, at least, suspicious when I'm somewhere new to me and see a bike lane. Is a shoulder with a bike logo on it going to go around a curve and stop at a bridge, forcing me into a high speed vehicular (and bikes, presumably, though going slower) lane? Will the lane suddenly be straddled by a storm drain with wide openings parallel to the direction of travel? Will it have a bollard gate requiring me to unload panniers to get through? Been there, done that, took the lane until I got off those roads!
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Old 09-28-22, 08:04 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
It also makes me, at least, suspicious when I'm somewhere new to me and see a bike lane. Is a shoulder with a bike logo on it going to go around a curve and stop at a bridge, forcing me into a high speed vehicular (and bikes, presumably, though going slower) lane? Will the lane suddenly be straddled by a storm drain with wide openings parallel to the direction of travel? Will it have a bollard gate requiring me to unload panniers to get through? Been there, done that, took the lane until I got off those roads!
Yes .... I have run across all those .... makes you wonder how hard it is to gut a traffic engineering job.
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Old 09-28-22, 08:07 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
I agree, not all bike lanes are that bad. The problem is that some are (and a few are arguably worse). And that makes intelligent conversation about bike lanes impossible when someone uses broad strokes to refer to all bike lanes.

It also makes me, at least, suspicious when I'm somewhere new to me and see a bike lane. Is a shoulder with a bike logo on it going to go around a curve and stop at a bridge, forcing me into a high speed vehicular (and bikes, presumably, though going slower) lane? Will the lane suddenly be straddled by a storm drain with wide openings parallel to the direction of travel? Will it have a bollard gate requiring me to unload panniers to get through? Been there, done that, took the lane until I got off those roads!

Basically, I take bike lanes on a case-by-case basis as they are definitely not uniform, and the contexts in which they appear also vary like crazy. Like I said before, this is not an ideological issue to me requiring a single answer for all bike lanes. I've found some very useful to maintaining a high speed safely in an urban context, others, like you're describing, I wouldn't ride on on a bet.

I have a problem with the NYC legal approach which requires the cyclist to stay in the lane unless it actually is blocked.
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Old 09-28-22, 08:33 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I have a problem with the NYC legal approach which requires the cyclist to stay in the lane unless it actually is blocked.
That's state law here, too, except they don't have the blocked lane exclusion. I've only been harassed here once by a cop; naturally, there was no bike lane. I quoted the vehicle code to him and he drove off. Passed him a quarter mile up the road parked in the turn lane reading his code -- he must have decided I knew what I was talking about, because he didn't catch up to me in the next half mile and re-start the conversation.
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Old 09-28-22, 08:40 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
That's state law here, too, except they don't have the blocked lane exclusion. I've only been harassed here once by a cop; naturally, there was no bike lane. I quoted the vehicle code to him and he drove off. Passed him a quarter mile up the road parked in the turn lane reading his code -- he must have decided I knew what I was talking about, because he didn't catch up to me in the next half mile and re-start the conversation.

Just to clarify, I should have said NYC policy requires you "stay in the bike lane" unless it's blocked..
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Old 09-28-22, 09:11 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
That's state law here, too, except they don't have the blocked lane exclusion. I've only been harassed here once by a cop; naturally, there was no bike lane. I quoted the vehicle code to him and he drove off. Passed him a quarter mile up the road parked in the turn lane reading his code -- he must have decided I knew what I was talking about, because he didn't catch up to me in the next half mile and re-start the conversation.
Very considerate of that cop. He could have given you a ticket and left it for you to fight it out in court knowing full well you would win. And he wouldn't even need to show up to defend his losing-ticket.
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Old 09-28-22, 09:19 AM
  #136  
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If there is no car on the road, I try biking a little bit on it; why not. But as usual, I use the line since I have a driving license, and I know how it feels when someone on a bike bothers you in traffic.
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Old 09-28-22, 09:46 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by DanielGatli View Post
I know how it feels when someone on a bike bothers you in traffic.
What the what?
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Old 09-28-22, 10:12 AM
  #138  
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If there is a parallel lane to the road that takes you out of traffic, I see no reason to engage with the cars unless you need to turn. Share the lane isn't always a feel god thing. The bike coalition in Marin does an excellent job of designing lanes and keeping the public educated. That's not always the case.
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Old 09-28-22, 10:37 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by raqball View Post
What the what?
Err, what isn't clear? I get angry when I drive and a biker appears on the road.
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Old 09-28-22, 10:47 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by DanielGatli View Post
I get angry when I drive and a biker appears on the road.
Anger management might help with that..

Cyclist, in most jurisdictions, are entitled to be on the road and have the same rights as you, the angry motorist.. Many times leaving a designated bike lane is necessary due to lane conditions, for the safety of the cyclist, etc...

But motorists like you are why I always cycle with a camera so rage on I guess.....
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Old 09-28-22, 10:56 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by DanielGatli View Post
Err, what isn't clear? I get angry when I drive and a biker appears on the road.
Considering that you also ride a bike on the road, I would say you have severe issues.
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Old 09-28-22, 10:58 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by DanielGatli View Post
Err, what isn't clear? I get angry when I drive and a biker appears on the road.
Maybe you are the best to explain why motorists also get upset when there are bike lanes installed.
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Old 09-28-22, 11:45 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Maybe you are the best to explain why motorists also get upset when there are bike lanes installed.
New account and raging on cyclist... I assume (and hope) it's a troll account..
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Old 09-28-22, 01:13 PM
  #144  
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Let's hope he is out driving, sees himself riding, runs himself over, and gets life in prison.
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Old 09-28-22, 01:38 PM
  #145  
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People, calm down, please. I didn't have any negative ideas. I meant I try using the line as frequently as I can. And I'm not going to kill anybody for doing the contrary.
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Old 09-28-22, 03:43 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by DanielGatli View Post
Err, what isn't clear? I get angry when I drive and a biker appears on the road.
Why do you get angry when you drive and a cyclist appears on the road ?
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Old 09-28-22, 04:55 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by holytrousers View Post
Why do you get angry when you drive and a cyclist appears on the road ?

Cos he rather be biking than driving.

I go out of my way to accommodate cyclists when Iím driving.
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Old 09-28-22, 05:15 PM
  #148  
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The moral high ground belongs to whoever is writing - and the form of transport they use
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Old 09-28-22, 05:17 PM
  #149  
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cars hate bikes
pedestrians hate cars
bikes hate pedestrian etc

The only thing we can agree on is that e-scooters are bottom of the barrel (whether on sidewalks or bike lanes)
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Old 09-28-22, 08:00 PM
  #150  
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Thereís an insanely frustrating/unsafe section of road here in Perth that Iíll try to describe.

Itís called Hackett Drive and runs next to the Uni of WA. Itís very, very popular with cyclists being one of two main links in to the city from the western suburbs with a designated bike lane that is, in general, very good.

But it has a couple of roundabouts (American readers, please google what one is &#128521 where the road narrows and the bike path essentially leaves the road to join the pavement and then you have to cross the entry roads to the roundabout like a pedestrian.

Itís a joke. Iíve never seen a cyclist use the lanes here, and I ride it almost daily, they instead just merge into the road and use the roundabout as per a motor vehicle. But cars arenít necessarily expecting it. Thereís not even signs to let traffic know the bike lane is ending and cyclists will
merge.

I almost got squashed by a bus there (at least in my melodramatic mind I did) and I complained to Transperth who upheld the complaint.

Its saving grace is the majority of drivers on it are familiar with it, mostly being of the Nedlands/Dalkeith suburb and using it daily themselves.
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