Ironfish653

Every town has a "Professor Mc Nuttly" ours has a long white beard, and rides a 'bent with a flag (actually at least two; a highracer and one with a faring) Guy is fearless; I've seen him on roads I'd be wary of on anything less than a 500cc moto.

urbanknight

How on earth do you do that with driveways and intersections?

Here's an example local to me. Drivers can't see this rider very well behind the row of parked cars and could turn right into their path trying to enter a driveway or turn right.

3alarmer 

....they put in one of those as an experiment on about ten blocks of downtown J street here. It's truly awful. Besides the never swept aspect of it, it confuses the pedestrians who want to cross the street. So every block, there are people milling around in the bike lane, waiting for the light to change, so they can cross. It seems like a wonderful idea to park those cars out there next to the traffic lanes, with the bike lane interior to them. But in practice it doesn't work very well. I now take alternate, parallel streets, instead of J street.

Troul 

This.
Improve the side streets that have a much slower MPH set, & put in signs that "Yield to cyclists" for those streets intersecting with like streets.

urbanknight

Unfortunately, where I live, most of the slower roads don't go all the way through. Probably a good thing too, as the one that does go through near my home gets people speeding well over the 25mph limit, even over speed humps! But that would make a severely zig zaggy route for any cyclist and still not connect to anywhere more than a couple miles away without joining the major streets for a good while.

I also have my doubts about signs doing anything. If I got a nickel for every time I was close passed or honked at within feet of a "share the road" sign, or a car rolled past a stop sign into my path...

Branko D

The problem is the parking.

On street parking + bike lane = disaster. The same concept works very well absent the row of parked cars adjecent to the bike lane, however. This is from a recent vacation in La Coruna, Spain - note they took one lane of the road and turned it into bike lane, so you don't have the problem of the edge of the road with a cruddy surface being repurposed. They've mostly exiled car parking to underground garages, which really makes the place a lot more compact and walkable / liveable.

Branko D

As for drivers directing their ire at cyclists... unfortunately, I can see why it happens. Going through red lights, ignoring yield rules, riding side by side (not legal here) and starting an argument or a row when someone complains instead of saying "sorry", and in general - responding aggressively to real or perceived slights. Not all of us, and not all the time, but enough to influence perception negatively (just like the rare hostile driver will often make cyclists rage at drivers in general). Chill out, whether you're on the bike or in the car - there's no reason to be rude or combative.

We may not like to acknowledge it, but some of "us" act like dicks in traffic.

Broctoon

I’m talking specifically about collisions with cyclists and pedestrians, not aggressive driving, road rage, etc.

I assume the former has always been pretty well documented and tallied.

Aardwolf

If you want a good laugh read the article linked below that one in "Related stories": CyclingMikey
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...in-roads-safer
I read that back in January but forgot the name.

And here's the guys YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm6...2ku4lPd-155-Vw

flangehead

The road is a very non-linear domain. We had a natural experiment early in COVID in many jurisdictions when motor vehicle miles dropped a lot but road fatalities did not.

This is not a criticism of taking into account exposure, but a reminder that predictions from simplistic data analysis may be completely incorrect. Predictions based on highly sophisticated data analysis may also be completely incorrect.

Maelochs

Do the tests, log the data, and show the results. Otherwise, i don't buy it.

Again, I don't buy it. Over the decades I have ridden every kind of bike in every kind of clothing and do not see these correlations. Also, in many areas, drivers have never seen large groups of riders doing a double paceline, claiming a lane.

I have tried riding shirtless in cargo shorts or in a tank top and denim shorts on a flatbar road bike, a mountain bike, and a road bike, and in kit on the same .... people seem to behave as they do based on the cyclist in front of them. Assuming all bad reactions are caused by flashbacks to the time they were threatened or impeded by a fast group ride is a bit of a stretch. particularly, because when I started riding in a large urban area, No one did group rides there.

What??!! Cyclists are timid about braking because they might endo? On which planet? Are You afraid to hit the brakes because you will crash? Sorry, this would be bad science if it even approached the minimal requirement for science. And braking can wear you down? How is it that braking tires you out. If I sat on my bike in my garage and held the brakes for an hour, yeas, my hands would get tired ... but in my limited experience it is Pedaling, not braking which causes most fatigue while riding.

Cyclists are sometimes unwilling to stop because they want to conserve momentum, (while shouting "Strava! Strava!" I am told) but most riders who run lights and try to snake through intersections are just being inconsiderate are don't realize that their behavior might come back to bite them. But I am pretty sure that Most drivers are simply upset that they have to slow down At All for a vehicle they do not believe belongs on the road At All.

I have been doing this for many decades .... and while I have not done it scientifically (no data, no control) I have paid attention which is the only way to survive five-plus decades of street riding ....

yes .... and in fact, I and I think every road rider who has to face tough traffic regularly learns these thing ... or get hit too often to keep riding. The Strava nuts don't usually make segments where there are a lot of traffic lights. Not a lot of downtown segments .....

But yes ... I realize that when I ride I do represent all riders ... to some people. i do try to represent well ... and I also realize that some drivers are just richard-heads, and some are just having bad days and making bad choices, and I have personal experience with all that ... being richard, having bad days, making bad decisions .....

The color of my shirt is not going to change any of that. My sunglasses or lack thereof, my helmet and gloves or lacks thereof, are not going to change any of that. people are not reacting to "that cyclist in the race-cut jersey with a big team name, expensive shades, an aero helmet, expensive gloves, Rapha bibs, and Shimano shoes .... In my experience, drivers are reacting to anyone who in any form impedes their progress on a Road, where only Cars belong, or if bikes are going to be there ... they had best keep out of the way.

Obviously your mileage has varied.

Maelochs

Emphatic yes.

Worst possible situation. The curb is just tall enough that if you sideswipe it trying to avoid crap in the lane (including other riders coming head-on (whether they should be there or not, it still hurts if you hit them--and including riders you want to pass who freak out and swerve whether you warn them repeatedly or not) you are almost certainly going to crash Into traffic, and be lying on your back or side looking at the car which is about to run over your head. Tried that, don't need a repeat, thanks.

Also, if you are carrying panniers, those poles are perfect to snatch at the outer edge if you try to avoid hitting the leaves, sand, branches, broken glass, auto-accident debris, potholes, etc. which wend up in the (always unswept) bike lane.

Further notice that the road drains into the bike lane? Where does the bike lane drain? Oh, it doesn't. That means on rainy days you are riding in puddles, which is very dangerous because you might not see the sand bar which is about to slide and shift and dump you when you hit it. Ad after every rain, all the debris which has washed off the road .... ends up in the bike lane.

Head-on riders (salmon) are one of the worst things, because I hate to discourage anyone from riding a bike, but if there is a bike lane, what then? I usually end up giving way and taking the traffic lane because I know i can handle it better than the probably less-experienced novice who hasn't figured out to read the laws ... or hasn't even considered that there may be laws governing cycling .... but when there is nowhere to go ....

twenty feet is plenty of room for a driver to swerve into the bike lane. But I agree, poles alone without a curb would be a safer option.

Maelochs

And here are some other "facts": Apparently there are Not "1800" cycling deaths in the UK each year.

I wondered about all that because I know US deaths run about 700-1000 per anum. Turns out that 141 cyclists died in the UK as a result of accidents in 2020. Not sure where these people get their figures ... any of them.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...great-britain/
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...factsheet-2020


Not that I oppose what this guy is doing---I would definitely sign up to be a bicycle deputy and film drivers if such a job existed--and I knew my footage would be treated as evidence in court.

seypat

Is this the A & S forum? I must have clicked the wrong tab. I was looking for General.

unterhausen

moved to A&S from General

work4bike

One sees this attitude (shooting all cyclists) mostly in larger cities. I think cyclists not obeying traffic laws is a significant factor. When a cyclist does a maneuver that causes motorists to slam on their brakes, that pisses you off over time. I'm not putting all the blame on cyclists, but I think stopping for red lights and stop signs would go a long way, as well as doing what you can to not slow people down. BTW, motorist are not the only ones that don't like being slowed down....that's why there are so many accidents on MUPs, so for cyclists to say motorists should be more patient....that's pretty hypocritical and a little

Around here in Jacksonville, supposedly one of the deadliest cities in one of the deadliest states in the USA, I don't see much road rage directed at me. Quite the opposite, get people that say similar things to me as the opening paragraph in the OP's link.

People are always asking me, stuff like, "how long you been riding", "how many miles you do per day"... The people that ask these questions have seen me on the roads countless times. I've even been offered food in drinks while waiting at stop lights I always feel a little awkward when they do that.



.

Polaris OBark

It's been moved. Thanks so much for your help, Karen.

Now you can read all the dumpster diving and "what is your favorite bike tool color?" threads without the distraction of anything that might actually matter.

JW Fas

Where are they mounted? If they're on your bars, they probably won't be seen. If your rear camera is also a light, it might be interpreted as only a light. My helmet camera sticks out like a sore thumb, and I've had people comment on it, so I know it's visible.

----------------------

The US desperately needs nationalized driving standards. Having it on a state-by-state basis is very confusing. I live in KCMO, so I often cross the state line into Kansas. Here are some notable differences between the states:

1. How much space must a car give when overtaking?

• KS: 3 feet
• MO: A "safe distance" (not specified); Exception: In Lee's Summit, MO they have a city ordinance requiring 4 feet.

2. Where should a cyclist ride in the lane?

• KS: As far to the right hand side of the roadway as practicable
• MO: As far to the right hand side of the roadway as is safe; Exception: Lee's Summit, MO specifies that a cyclist may use the center of the lane just because.

3. Does a cyclist have to use a bike lane?

• KS: Yes, if usable.
• MO: No; Exception: KCMO requires it if the bike lane is usable.

4. Can a motorist use a handheld electronic device while operating a motor vehicle?

• KS: No
• MO: Yes if you're 21 or older.

Koyote

All of the posted photos of urban cyclists and big city bike lanes are making me sooo glad to live in a small rural city. I ride 1/4 mile out of my quiet neighborhood and hit a little-traveled paved county road...Or if I go the other direction, I can hit gravel and not leave it for an entire ride. It's not uncommon for me to do 30 miles and get passed by only a handful of vehicles.

Maelochs

Couple things----I always look at "Share the road" as a shared goal .... I will pull over (when it is safe) to let cars by, or wave them ahead if I can .... if they are ahead of me it is harder for them to hit me, and if they are behind me and frustrated, then there are cars full of frustrated drivers behind them, too, probably .... which is wrong. We all have places we want to be and all of us want the smoothest possible journey (unless I am riding off-road.)

I have done a few multi-state tours and have research the Uniform Traffic Codes of about 38 states .... all are Very similar with a few small differences and all the ones I looked at have an item about using the far right side of the far lane except when .... with a list of reasons, including debris and such. So basically, every state I researched allows cyclists to take the lane when it is necessary ....

I checked Kansas as an example:
8-1590. Riding on bicycles or mopeds; riding on roadways and bicycle paths. (a) Every person operating a bicycle or a moped upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable, except under any of the following situations when: (1) Overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction; (2) preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway; or (3) reasonably necessary to avoid conditions including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving bicycles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or narrow width lanes that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand edge of the roadway. (Emphasis added.)

Pretty much every state says this.

TLit

I'm not a high mileage bicyclist and have not had adversarial reactions from drivers. No uniform or special clothing, so I don't really stand out much. I am a cautious bicyclist, tend to hug the side of the road.

Troul 

I'm not sure if it is just select states or a federal thing, but if the "Work Zone Laws" could be applied to protect cyclists (not just within a workzone), it would be a great start in protecting the lives of riders.
I would rather have that too, enjoy it!

urbanknight

Yes, in front of the handlebar and coming out from the seatpost. I'm no longer fond of mounting anything on the helmet since it risks rotating it out of place in a crash, but I do recall when I used to commute with a helmet light and people asked if it was a camera.

Polaris OBark

I wonder if there is a market for cheap fake decoy helmet cams?

Daniel4

You can get budget cameras for under $100. If you want fake or decoy just don't turn it on.