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Fairness on competitions

Old 08-31-22, 11:05 AM
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3d1l
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Fairness on competitions

I was watching a video where a cyclist was winning a Tour de France stage but had to stop due to a bicycle mechanical failure. A spectator borrow him his bike that by pure coincidence was the same brand with same specs and same size and he was not only able to finish but to win. Then I was watching another video, this time a XC MTB race where both cyclist finish the race getting into a sprint and one of them won by a "hair". Then I watch the video several times but each time I was looking more at the bikes rather than the athletes. I'm wondering if both riders had the same bike, same components, same everything, would the results have been the same? Is it fair for the looser when the equipment is not the same?
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Old 08-31-22, 11:10 AM
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Yes.

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Old 08-31-22, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by 3d1l View Post
I was watching a video where a cyclist was winning a Tour de France stage but had to stop due to a bicycle mechanical failure. A spectator borrow him his bike that by pure coincidence was the same brand with same specs and same size and he was not only able to finish but to win.
Link to video or it didn't happen.
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Old 08-31-22, 11:34 AM
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Was the bike red?
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Old 08-31-22, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes View Post
Was the bike red?
Is it fair to the loser if his bike isn't red?
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Old 08-31-22, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Link to video or it didn't happen.
Yep. That never happened. At best, the "spectator" was the team mechanic.
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Old 08-31-22, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
Yes.

John
Wait a minute, did John fought against Chuck Norris and won?
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Old 08-31-22, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Link to video or it didn't happen.
Sorry. my bad, it was Tour Down Under (go to minute 7:33 on the video).


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Old 08-31-22, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes View Post
Was the bike red?
Why are you asking? How does color affects performance? Please enlighten me... Wait a minute!!! Ok now, Go!
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Old 08-31-22, 12:07 PM
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Vuelta time trial...


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Old 08-31-22, 12:10 PM
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Ok so, reading some of your hilarious sarcastic comments what you are saying is that the bike doesn't matter. A rider can be using a beach cruiser and is going to win anyways.
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Old 08-31-22, 12:14 PM
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Go to second 50 on the video

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Old 08-31-22, 12:26 PM
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I know the temptation is there.

Click on the General Cycling Discussion and it seems everyone else is getting noticed. Whether it is the vodka, carrying a golf club, or some other nonsensical thread, it can become so difficult not to jump into it and get some well deserved beat down.

In virtually every equipment centrist sport you will find differences in equipment used by the combatants. Just roll things back to David and Goliath.

Cycling is quite tame. Get into golf and see how things go. Not only are you a loser for not being able to hit a completely stationary object in a relatively straight direction a minimum acceptable distance, you are a bigger loser for spending thousands and thousands of dollars on the wrong equipment.

John

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Old 08-31-22, 12:32 PM
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In road racing (as well as mountain and CX), the bikes will never be exactly the same for each athlete. If it's a UCI sanctioned event, there is extensive regulation to keep equipment quite similar and minimize equipment advantages. This applies to stage races, criterium, and even Time Trial... but not triathlons, as UCI does not sanction these.

If you're interested in a racing format where equipment is so heavily regulated that there is virtually no chance of an advantage, check into Keirin (Japanese track racing).
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Old 08-31-22, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Broctoon View Post
In road racing (as well as mountain and CX), the bikes will never be exactly the same for each athlete. If it's a UCI sanctioned event, there is extensive regulation to keep equipment quite similar and minimize equipment advantages. This applies to stage races, criterium, and even Time Trial... but not triathlons, as UCI does not sanction these.

If you're interested in a racing format where equipment is so heavily regulated that there is virtually no chance of an advantage, check into Keirin (Japanese track racing).
Thank you! and also thanks for the Keirin note.
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Old 08-31-22, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Broctoon View Post
If you're interested in a racing format where equipment is so heavily regulated that there is virtually no chance of an advantage, check into Keirin (Japanese track racing).
Also, the Little 500 Race, in which the bikes are heavily regulated.
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Old 08-31-22, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 3d1l View Post
The red bike lost?! Must have been rigged.
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Old 08-31-22, 05:52 PM
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Seems to me the bike he got form a fan had a tubular under the seat .... in some shots ....

But yes, in UCI competition the bikes are not a factor. The rules are tight enough (and the weight limit high enough) that no bike offers a significant advantage over any other bike. Some might be a tiny bit more aero, some a few grams lighter, some a little stiffer or more compliant,. but no one is winning races because fo the bikes. Every team could swap bikes with every other team, and once all the adjustments were made for size and gearing, each team would show the same performance.

if you think winning a sprint is the bike and not the rider .... ride more.
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Old 08-31-22, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 3d1l View Post
I was watching a video where a cyclist was winning a Tour de France stage but had to stop due to a bicycle mechanical failure. A spectator borrow him his bike that by pure coincidence was the same brand with same specs and same size and he was not only able to finish but to win. Then I was watching another video, this time a XC MTB race where both cyclist finish the race getting into a sprint and one of them won by a "hair". Then I watch the video several times but each time I was looking more at the bikes rather than the athletes. I'm wondering if both riders had the same bike, same components, same everything, would the results have been the same? Is it fair for the looser when the equipment is not the same?
The guy who gave him a bike wasn't a spectator. He was an employee of the racing team whose job is to have a backup bike ready in case a cyclist needs one.
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Old 08-31-22, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Yan View Post
The guy who gave him a bike wasn't a spectator. He was an employee of the racing team whose job is to have a backup bike ready in case a cyclist needs one.
No.
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Old 08-31-22, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Yan View Post
The guy who gave him a bike wasn't a spectator. He was an employee of the racing team whose job is to have a backup bike ready in case a cyclist needs one.
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
No.
Perhaps my assertion in post (#6) is incorrect, then. Nonetheless, I'm not understanding how a once-in-a-lifetime event should really motivate such a broad theory.
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Old 08-31-22, 11:35 PM
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Then there's the time in the 2010 TdF when Jens Voigt borrowed a kid's bike, allowing him to finish the stage within the time cut-off.

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Old 09-01-22, 05:07 AM
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Well, Jens Voigt was himself an exception to most rules.

But obviously, the bikes are not the deciding factors.
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Old 09-01-22, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Then there's the time in the 2010 TdF when Jens Voigt borrowed a kid's bike, allowing him to finish the stage within the time cut-off.

That might also be a MAVIC neutral service bike; given that it appears to be a de-badged yellow Cannondale, which would be period-appropriate. (Often fitted with the rat-traps shown, to eliminate cleat compatibility issues)

3d1l Neutral Service Bikes are part of Grand Tour races, usually provided by the organizers (historically the yellow MAVIC bikes, now blue Shimano -branded) a neutral service bike allows a rider who has suffered a major mechanical or crash, and can't get to his team car (too far off the front or back of the race) an opportunity to rejoin the race without losing a huge amount of time.
There's rules about where and when team support cars can be on the road in relation to the racers, but neutral service is allowed much closer to the action (usually because it's a single car or even a moto)
It's also common for a domestique to hand off his own bike in the event that his team leader has a mechanical as well; allowing the leader to stay in the action, while the supporting rider waits for the team car, and then catches back up, if he can
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Old 09-01-22, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Then there's the time in the 2010 TdF when Jens Voigt borrowed a kid's bike, allowing him to finish the stage within the time cut-off.

Originally Posted by Ironfish653 View Post
That might also be a MAVIC neutral service bike; given that it appears to be a de-badged yellow Cannondale, which would be period-appropriate.
It definitely wasn't a neutral service bike. It's set up for a junior rider. Jens says it was a bike ridden by a young kid in the TdF parade. It was on a car riding behind the broom wagon.

So then the broom wagon pulled up and was like, “Do you want to just get in?” And I said, “Oh no, I don’t need YOU!” But there I am with blood spurting out my left elbow and no bike. Finally, the race organizers got me a bike, but it was this little yellow junior bike. It was way too small for me and even had old-fashioned toe-clip pedals. But that is the only way I could get down the mountain, so I had to ride it for like 15-20 kilometers until I finally got to a team car with my bike.

The rest of his tiny bike story here.
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Last edited by terrymorse; 09-01-22 at 10:02 AM.
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