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numbing palms

Old 09-27-22, 10:12 AM
  #1  
metropical
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numbing palms

2009 CAAD9 pretty much stock, I think.
Having some issues with saddle comfort as I'm no longer as young as I was.
And palm numbing.

Tried 3 different Bontrager/Trek saddles. New one today.
Feeling a little palm numb after 10 miles or so.
Wondering if I have more range available on the handlebar height.
I tried tilting the handlebars up a teense. n/c.
other ideas?

Or is time to try gardening?



Last edited by metropical; 09-28-22 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 09-27-22, 10:18 AM
  #2  
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It may help to lower your seat a bit so you are putting less pressure on your hands. It helps to change hand position often. I remind myself to bend my arms when riding.
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Old 09-27-22, 10:19 AM
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I'll give that a go. Thanks,
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Old 09-27-22, 12:54 PM
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Caad 9 is a pretty aggressive bike geometry. More so than even my 2020 Tarmac. Though you've added a lot of spacers, your position is still probably more aggressive than what something like a Specialized Roubaix, Trek Domane or Cannondale Synapse will give you. Potentially a bike with geometry to give you a more upright position might help with your issue.

But assuming you were once comfortable on that bike and rode it with no hand issues, it might be something that I'm finding out about. Loss of muscle mass as I get older. Since I'm pretty much retired, I find that I'm losing muscle tone that I once had and I am experiencing minor issues on the bike that I didn't experience before. Hands getting slightly numb after longer ride periods being one of them.

Toward that extent, I have found that using those spring contraptions to build up my grip strength do seem to alleviate the issue. But it takes a while to show results... 3 or more weeks . And I find it difficult to maintain the habit of even using them. But still it seems to help.

Last edited by Iride01; 09-27-22 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 09-27-22, 01:08 PM
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Do not lower your seat if it is set to the correct height. This is a terrible idea.

Try new bar tape. Try some padded cycling gloves. Try a different shape seat. Which cycling bibs/shorts are you wearing?
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Old 09-27-22, 02:51 PM
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That looks like a 7-degree rise stem. I'd consider three things:
- See if your LBS will loan you a 30-degree rise stem for you to try out for a ride. With a 100mm stem, that could raise your bars about 1.5 inches over your 7-degree stem (assuming that's a 100mm, as well). It looks like your current stem is already relatively short, so not sure what your options are there in terms of trying one size shorter.
- Switch to a modern, fatter-gripped bar if you're still on an older skinny handlebar. My Bianchi is a 2004 with a 25.4mm bar diameter (I think). When I got my Lynskey in 2019, I was surprised by how... girthy... the new 31.8mm diameter bars are. The additional surface area definitely helps distribute the weight across my palms, so I'm not complaining.
- What's your saddle angle at? Instead of lowering it, I would try tilting the nose of the saddle up a degree or two - this should have the effective of rotating your hips a bit so your weight is a bit more on your sit bones than on your wrists. This is especially noticeable if you've ever ridden a bike with a saddle that's very nose-down - all of your weight's on your upper body.

If the seatpost or stem alone help, then those are obviously the cheaper options - switching out bars, tape, and the labor involved is always gonna be a bit more annoying.
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Old 09-27-22, 03:01 PM
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I used to get numbing hands really bad. After one very long ride I couldn’t button a shirt for almost a month. I tried different gloves, but nothing really helped until I changed my position, as well as stopping death gripping the hoods. It took some getting used too, and it took some conscious effort to not put so much weight on my hands, but now I don’t even wear gloves.
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Old 09-27-22, 03:41 PM
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I wear a cycling glove one size larger than normal. For example, I normally wear a large glove but my cycling gloves are extra-large.

Does it help, probably. Anything may help at the margins, but the margins are sometimes where the problems are and they tend to accumulate. I've done most of the stuff up-thread except a higher angled stem and my numbness is a lot better.

Glenn
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Old 09-27-22, 04:00 PM
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I find verbal anatomical descriptions indecipherable. So, here's a 90 second ms paint drawing of where I think it's okay and where it's bad to put pressure. Obviously, less pressure is better.

There's the whole topic of saddle position. A big clue related to hand pain is, if you find yourself sliding forward and scooting back repeatedly during a ride, that's a problem to fix. How to fix that is the subject of many debates, but it must be fixed.
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Old 09-27-22, 04:39 PM
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I've been riding a long time with real weight on my hands. I'm skinny, light, long and with just a few slow twitch muscles. (No fast twitch at all.) Not a good upwind combo. I've also been riding fix gear forever; sometimes long rides. Only way to make all that work is to ride with a flat back. I accept that the most comfortable way to do that is with my arms slightly bent, the handlbars a long ways away and real weight on my hands.

To do this (I'm 69 yo, not a youngster) I choose handlebar shapes and brake levers that work for me and I pay real attention to the setup. On any new-to-me bike, I do my early rides with no bar tape, just the cables electrical taped to the bars. Wrenches for the stem, bars and levers go in my pocket (and a 6" crescent to assist with the brake lever clamp bolt). Bars don't get taped until I can both ride and fell good after. And still, they get taped with just cloth tape from the bottom so I can unwrap and rewrap any time I feel the levers need to move.

Oh, I look at the "ergo" (edit!) bars and cannot fathom how I'd get that wrist rotated forward riding them. My choice is bars looking like the TTT bars of the '70s where the tops take a steep angle forward and down when the drop flats are horizontal.

In the past several years, hand issues similar to yours have been showing. One summer I tried rotating the bars down, not back when I noticed the left lever was lower than the right and my left hand was fairing better. Both hands felt better. I continued rotating the bars down until no issues. They are now set like racing handlebars 70 years ago with lots of downward slide to the uppers behind the brakes. They don't work as well as parking places for my hands but no issues! During rides or after. I'm coming to believe (again, for me) that my hands rotated forward, thumbs up and forward, pinkie back works. That the popular brake levers high and pointing up is the worst thing I can do. All my other bikes now follow this first one and re-occurring hand issues are no longer an issue.

If you do as I do, you may need a further upward angled stem to offset the additional reach the rotated bars give you.

Last edited by 79pmooney; 09-27-22 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 09-27-22, 06:00 PM
  #11  
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thanks for all the feedback. very welcome.
I did try lowering the seat a bit coz I think I jacked it up too much from where it was with the OEM saddle.
I have to go for some PT anyway for the hand in an unrelated issue .... although it maybe related now.

I'll try a tiny nose up on the saddle. I have always ridden flat.
Was sliding forward with the 1st saddle. It was 175mm, the one I have now is 165mm and that has helped the sliding a lot.

I'll have to look into stem options. LBS around here have dried up for the $5000 plus type bikes. My CAAD is supermarket to their one offs.

Canari Vortex Gel Shorts, about 10 yo. But have very little time in them as I took a few years off with bum knee.

As far as the angle, you're right, very aggressive I noticed today. I tweaked a bit, the saddle was way above the bar stem. Even now it's about 2".
But I can't take the seat much lower.
The bar stem seems to be 120mm. Dunno how or where to measure the angle.
My gloves are padded. I def need new tape.

aging blows. it's for much younger men then me.
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Old 09-27-22, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by metropical View Post
thanks for all the feedback. very welcome.
I did try lowering the seat a bit coz I think I jacked it up too much from where it was with the OEM saddle.
I have to go for some PT anyway for the hand in an unrelated issue .... although it maybe related now.

I'll try a tiny nose up on the saddle. I have always ridden flat.
Was sliding forward with the 1st saddle. It was 175mm, the one I have now is 165mm and that has helped the sliding a lot.

I'll have to look into stem options. LBS around here have dried up for the $5000 plus type bikes. My CAAD is supermarket to their one offs.

Canari Vortex Gel Shorts, about 10 yo. But have very little time in them as I took a few years off with bum knee.

As far as the angle, you're right, very aggressive I noticed today. I tweaked a bit, the saddle was way above the bar stem. Even now it's about 2".
But I can't take the seat much lower.
The bar stem seems to be 120mm. Dunno how or where to measure the angle.
My gloves are padded. I def need new tape.

aging blows. it's for much younger men then me.
Aging definitely blows. And I'm only 37.

I would recommend against lowering the seat - you want it to be low enough that your hips aren't rocking and so you're able to drop your heel at the bottom of the stroke, but much lower than that and you're asking for knee trouble. Keep the saddle height constant, and tweak the angle of the saddle.
165mm still seems like a fairly wide saddle - have you tried narrower? My three saddles are 142-147mm, and I'm pretty sure that's generally on the wider end of what's available for a road saddle.

From your pictures, it definitely looks like a low, almost flat stem. Most of those are 7-degrees these days, but it could definitely be anything under about 10-degrees. A 30-degree rise, maybe a smidge shorter, would result in a more relaxed fit for your upper back, shoulders, and eventually, wrists and palms. You'll definitely be putting more weight on your lower back and pelvis though, so look out for that.

Is it possible that your shorts are too slippery against that particular saddle? I've definitely had that happen before, and needed to use my arms to keep myself in place.
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Old 09-27-22, 08:01 PM
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So to recap:
  • unable to find a comfortable saddle
  • "palms" go numb

Information that's important but missing:
  • how long this bike has been owned
  • is the OP riding regularly, and the problems have newly appeared, or have they just begin to pick up the miles?

Recommendation: Get a professional bike fit. Numb hands and saddle discomfort are indications of either a rider without sufficient miles, or a poor bike fit.

Asking BF for bike fit tips is not going to get you very useful help.
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Old 09-27-22, 09:01 PM
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If you're sliding forward on the saddle while riding, try moving the saddle back.

Put some tape or a mark where it was, so you can revert if needed. That's always a good plan for any change.
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Old 09-27-22, 09:15 PM
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Using gloves to fight numb hands is not a very good approach as it is not addressing the root cause. I mostly ride without gloves and it is more comfortable than with gloves.

Your saddle position is supposed to position you ideally above your pedals, not to modify pressure elsewhere, so it is an equally poor approach to hand issues.

I recommend finding an expert bike fitter in your area and taking your concerns there to get properly adjusted, rather than messing around with changes that could introduce other issues.

If this cannot be achieved to satisfaction on your current bike with the same parts or replacement stems/bars, then you should at least get the geometry measurements allowing you to shop for a more suitable frame.
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Old 09-27-22, 09:25 PM
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Bigger tires, lower pressure?
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Old 09-27-22, 10:12 PM
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You should be able to ride with just light pressure on the hands. This depends partially on your core muscles. Try floating your hands just off the bar, elbows bent, no death grip.
A fitting might help but remember there are lots of different bars to choose from. Some bars work for me and some don't.
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Old 09-27-22, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
So to recap:
  • unable to find a comfortable saddle
  • "palms" go numb
When you put the two factors together like that, it made me realize that the OP could be putting more pressure on their hands to alleviate the discomfort of the saddle.

OP: Keep looking for a good saddle (I noticed I like a more curved saddle as I have aged and favored a more upright position), and work on core strength (upper back muscles). Also, have you tried riding without gloves? I noticed this helped with numb hands, although I also couldn't stand the feeling of sweater hands against the bar tape.
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Old 09-28-22, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by metropical View Post
2008 or so CAAD9 pretty much stock, I think.
Having some issues with saddle comfort as I'm no longer as young as I was.
And palm numbing.

Tried 3 different Bontrager/Trek saddles. New one today.
Feeling a little palm numb after 10 miles or so.
All this, plus you also mentioned that you are using a 120 mm stem. Not having even a photo of your position on the bike, the following is just conjecture; but here goes:

Maybe the effective reach is too much (i.e., too far forward) for you, especially with a 120 mm stem, so in the process of swapping and trying new saddles, you are having the saddle too far forward to compensate (i.e., to reduce the effective reach). The saddle fore/aft position affects your balance; having it too far forward causes you to tip forward, putting extra pressure on your hands and palms. Try moving the saddle further backward, to have the saddle clamp at the midpoint of the horizontal portion of the saddle rails, and using a shorter (and higher, if necessary) stem.
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Old 09-28-22, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by metropical View Post
2008 or so CAAD9 pretty much stock, I think.
Having some issues with saddle comfort as I'm no longer as young as I was.
And palm numbing.

Tried 3 different Bontrager/Trek saddles. New one today.
Feeling a little palm numb after 10 miles or so.
All this, plus you also mentioned that you are using a 120 mm stem. Not having even a photo of your position on the bike, the following is just conjecture; but here goes:

Maybe the effective reach is too much (i.e., too far forward) for you, especially with a 120 mm stem, so in the process of swapping and trying new saddles, you are setting the saddle too far forward to compensate (i.e., to reduce the effective reach). The saddle fore/aft position affects your balance; having it too far forward causes you to tip forward, putting extra pressure on your hands and palms. Try moving the saddle further backward, to have the saddle clamp at the midpoint of the horizontal portion of the saddle rails, and using a shorter (and higher, if necessary) stem.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:45 AM
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You are realizing now how aggressive it's fit is. Don't dork it up by putting weirdly angled stems and steerer tube extenders on it. You might could get some riser drop bars and get another inch or so higher with those and not ruin the aesthetics of the bike too much.

But go to your bike shop and try out a new Trek Domane, Specialized Roubaix or Cannondale Synapse. You probably have lived long enough to deserve a new bike.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:47 AM
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apologize for the huge bandwidth photos.

I measured center to center. 85mm. If I had to guess, I'd agree with 7º.
I also have the OEM C4 which is 95mm at 6º, according to Cannondale info.

the seat surface is 5.75" taller than the top of the handlebar stem.
The only BF I've found, so far, uses some "high end" device for $300. Don't think the bike is worth that much.
Gotta try one other smaller store. M&Ps have closed around here or been "chained" or snootified.




Last edited by metropical; 09-30-22 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 09-28-22, 07:58 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
But go to your bike shop and try out a new Trek Domane, Specialized Roubaix or Cannondale Synapse. You probably have lived long enough to deserve a new bike.
I may deserve a new bike, but for 20mi a day 3 to 5 days a week, none of those bikes are in my future, sweet they may be.
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Old 09-28-22, 08:02 AM
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Lots of stems with steeper angles available on the web. Also adjustable stems (ugly and heavy but great for dialing in the height).
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Old 09-28-22, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by metropical View Post
apologize for the huge bandwidth photos.

I measured center to center. 85mm. If I had to guess, I'd agree with 7º.
Have the OEM C4 which is 95mm at 6º, according to Cannondale info.

the seat surface is 5.75" taller than the top of the handlebar stem.
When I was 35 I would set the top of the handlebar 4" below the top of the saddle. Now I'm 68 and have had some back injuries and I like the saddle no more than 2 inches above the bar top. I also use short reach shallow drop bars. I could have never used a bar drop of almost 6 inches, but I know some people can.

In your second photo it looks like the saddle is around 2" above the bar top.

Also, I know some people like the saddle pointing up but most of us run it level. Put your weight on your sit bones.

Last edited by big john; 09-28-22 at 08:11 AM.
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