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Glueless patches for low-pressure/high-volume tubes?

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Glueless patches for low-pressure/high-volume tubes?

Old 09-27-22, 02:03 PM
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Glueless patches for low-pressure/high-volume tubes?

(I did a search, and the most recent post title with the word 'Glueless' was 2017, and then nothing before that more recent than 2012, so I guess this question is not too redundant)

I tried a pack of glueless patches (i.e. stickers) once, and they weren't reliable for me. Ever since I have considered them to be at best a means to get home, and I have only used 'proper' vulcanized patches ever since (Park VP-1 or TipTop)

But out on the trail recently, my Krampus flatted*. The VP-1 patch kit unfortunately was very old and the glue was completely dried up. To be prepared for the next time that might happen, I want to start carrying glueless.

I figure at the low pressures of a 3" tire (15psi max), any sticker could be effective for enough miles to get home. Is that true? But still I'd like to buy better ones.

What glueless patches do people like? I'm seeing Park GP-2, Slime Skabs, MucOff, are there other reputable brands? Anybody have success using a tube patched with a glueless sticker long term?


* yes I do tubeless, but my rear tire has proved impossible to set up tubeless** so I'm using a tube.
** whatever suggestion you have, I've tried it, still didn't work***
*** no, I don't want this thread to be about how to set up a tubeless wheel
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Old 09-27-22, 02:27 PM
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I have tried the gluless, but at high pressure. but had no luck with them working well over time

I use the rem tiptop and write date purchased on them and replace yearly...conservative but works

also I always carry 2 spare tubes plus the patch kit.
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Old 09-27-22, 02:50 PM
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I don't ride tires that wide or at that low pressure, so treat this as speculation.

The best success I've had with glueless patches has been with tubes close to the tire size (no 22-35 tubes in a 32 tire, please!) and fairly high pressure (70-90 psi). I always figured the high pressure, along with proper tube sanding, was responsible for holding the patch in place until the sticky adhesive set. If somebody knows better, or has a good reason for speculating to the contrary, I'd be interested to hear it!
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Old 09-27-22, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
I don't ride tires that wide or at that low pressure, so treat this as speculation.

The best success I've had with glueless patches has been with tubes close to the tire size (no 22-35 tubes in a 32 tire, please!) and fairly high pressure (70-90 psi). I always figured the high pressure, along with proper tube sanding, was responsible for holding the patch in place until the sticky adhesive set. If somebody knows better, or has a good reason for speculating to the contrary, I'd be interested to hear it!
This! "Glueless" patches just have a lower grade of glue and the ability to stay on is challenged by the tube stretching, squirming about or rubbing against the tire's insides. I have found rubbed/rolled off glueless patches in tires that we fixed the flat on at the shop enough times. Andy
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Old 09-27-22, 04:46 PM
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Park claims they addressed this

https://www.parktool.com/en-us/produ...patch-kit-gp-2

We worked with 3M to produce a self adhesive tube patch that stretches, flexes, twists, and turns right along with the tube.
All the glueless kits I see still come with sandpaper to roughen the surface of the tube. Does that possibly mean that the glueless patches are pre-glued with vulcanizing glue? Or just that the unroughened surface is just plain no good for adhesion
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Old 09-27-22, 04:47 PM
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Also, does lower-pressure tires mean more tube squirm? I was just thinking less pressure = less chance of patch blowout
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Old 09-27-22, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Park claims they addressed this

https://www.parktool.com/en-us/produ...patch-kit-gp-2



All the glueless kits I see still come with sandpaper to roughen the surface of the tube. Does that possibly mean that the glueless patches are pre-glued with vulcanizing glue? Or just that the unroughened surface is just plain no good for adhesion
Whatever type of patch, you want to remove the "dead" oxidized rubber and get down to the good stuff.
Think of gluing to a rusty surface.

My response to glueless patches is they got me home, but tended to loosen when blowing up the tube to find subsequent leaks.

Remove the air from the tube of glue by squeezing a small glob of glue (waste a glob, save the remainder of the tube) out before putting the cap back on.
I've got a tube that was opened about 6-7 years ago that was still good last June.

Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 09-27-22 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 09-27-22, 11:23 PM
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I ordered myself a Park GP-2 six-pack. Hopefully I never have to use them.
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Old 09-28-22, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
All the glueless kits I see still come with sandpaper to roughen the surface of the tube. Does that possibly mean that the glueless patches are pre-glued with vulcanizing glue? Or just that the unroughened surface is just plain no good for adhesion
Similar to glueful (?) patches. Tubes are produced with an outer layer that keeps them from adhering to the tooling. That mold release layer also keeps anything else from sticking. You have to sand (or file, or grate) that layer off -- not just get the surface rough -- before anything will stick to the tube.
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Old 09-28-22, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Also, does lower-pressure tires mean more tube squirm? I was just thinking less pressure = less chance of patch blowout
My observations say yes, lower air pressures allow for more tire/tube squirm and potential abrasion. Just look at tires that have been ridden w/ too little pressure and see the cocked over valve as the tire tries to move rotationally on the rim and the tube valve is trapped in the valve hole. When one takes a low pressure ridden tire there will often be abrasion scuff marks on the tube sides with rubber dust collecting inside the tire. Andy
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Old 09-28-22, 08:24 AM
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I used SKABS and they work well for me. Inexpensive and easy! As long as the tube is clean, and maybe roughed up a bit with the sandpaper they stick well. The one issue I do experience is that sometimes the patch is too big for road tubes. Or, when the hole in the tube is too close to the raised seams, the patch wont stick right next to it and consequently wont cover the leaking hole.

Dan
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Old 09-28-22, 08:27 AM
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I never read about the problem with glueless patches until last year. So now I have only glueless patches for the last 10 years or so, and zero failures.

I assume you folks have used Tenacious Tape for nylon clothing repairs? My first nylon patch didn't stick more than a week so the next one I burnished on pretty severely with the back of a spoon. A few years and washes later that one is fine. That's what I did with my sticky tire patches from the start: sand the surface to get fresh rubber, then burnish the heck out of the patch with whatever metal I had in my pocket. I did that because the first patch I put on went over a raised molding seam right next to the hole and I wanted it to be sure for the patch follow the seam tightly, and after that burnishing was just sort of in the habit I had. Since thenI haven't had a single sticky patch be a problem. I suspect that's the missing step in the instructions for both patches, nylon and rubber--ferocious burnishing to get the adhesive to really bond with the tube.
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Old 09-28-22, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
My observations say yes, lower air pressures allow for more tire/tube squirm and potential abrasion. Just look at tires that have been ridden w/ too little pressure and see the cocked over valve as the tire tries to move rotationally on the rim and the tube valve is trapped in the valve hole. When one takes a low pressure ridden tire there will often be abrasion scuff marks on the tube sides with rubber dust collecting inside the tire. Andy
I went through and patched (vulcanized) my backlog of flatted Krampus tubes last night, and saw twice that there were paired snakebites, but off-center. One had a snakebite like 1mm from the centerline, which proves the tube was rotated inside the tire.

wrt _ForceD_ and mdarnton mentioning seams, I was worried about that one, I sanded really hard to try to eliminate the seam, and also tried to shave it down with a razor. I was never really satisfied with the seam being completely gone, so I just put that patch on there and hoped for the vulcanizing to do its chemical magic and shift those rubber molecules around, close up any avenue for air to escape along the seam. And then clamp the patch for a few minutes. I have some vise grips with pivoting flat plates for jaws, works great for clamping tubes!

(like this, but I found mine on the road. So less than this optimistic eBay seller is asking...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/33425840348...3A1%3Bchoc%3A2


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Old 09-28-22, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
wrt _ForceD_ and mdarnton mentioning seams, I was worried about that one, I sanded really hard to try to eliminate the seam, and also tried to shave it down with a razor. I was never really satisfied with the seam being completely gone, so I just put that patch on there and hoped for the vulcanizing to do its chemical magic and shift those rubber molecules around, close up any avenue for air to escape along the seam.
Easiest way to sand down seams is to fold the tube so the seam is on the edge of the fold and just sand away until it's gone. No chance of sanding too much of the area around the seam and much faster and easier to get it done.
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Old 09-28-22, 01:20 PM
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That's a good idea. I had my tube flattened around the wooden handle of my floor pump, and sanded a lot across the seam (a little along the seam, but mostly across)
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Old 09-28-22, 05:51 PM
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Of course the fastest way to fix a flat is with a spare tube, not a patch. Just be sure why it went flat is fixed too. Andy
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Old 09-29-22, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Of course the fastest way to fix a flat is with a spare tube, not a patch. Just be sure why it went flat is fixed too. Andy
I always wonder how the people who claim to be able to fix a flat in 92 seconds flat find and correct the cause of the flat. Outside of a very few flats (lumber staple or drywall screw still stuck in the tire), almost all of mine seem to come from Michelin wires or tiny glass shards. Those usually take a lot longer for me to find.
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Old 09-29-22, 07:11 AM
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I've never heard that claim
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Old 09-29-22, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
I always wonder how the people who claim to be able to fix a flat in 92 seconds flat find and correct the cause of the flat. Outside of a very few flats (lumber staple or drywall screw still stuck in the tire), almost all of mine seem to come from Michelin wires or tiny glass shards. Those usually take a lot longer for me to find.
Yea, I've watched in mixed feelings fellow club riders to a tube install in just a couple of minutes, skipping steps that I do. I've also watched some get a second flat only a few miles later...

Fixing a flat is a good excuse to have a bite to eat, check the map and generally not pedal for a little while. Andy
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Old 09-29-22, 09:07 AM
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Park Tool GP-2. I've used them and have had no problems. I will never use the old method of glued on patches ever again.
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Old 09-29-22, 12:50 PM
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Low pressure and glueless patches do not play well together. Also, tubes that are slightly undersized for the tire are not good candidates for glueless patches as the tube stretching will cause the patch to slide or shift.

Traditional glue-and-patch patch kits are always better, and carrying a known good (new or properly patched) tube as a spare is best.
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Old 09-29-22, 02:58 PM
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So my tires are 29x3 Chaoyang Big Daddy, and the tubes are 29x2.4-2.8 that I bought off eBay, presumably from a guy with a bike shop that is accumulating new tubes from selling new bikes and converting them to tubeless.

At 15psi, it doesn't feel from the outside like there's any slack, but I guess my fingers are useless calipers. When I'm rolling over rocks and roots and the tire is deforming, I guess anything could be happening inside there
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