leg cramps
04-28-21, 02:39 PM
#26
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If I do nothing other than stand on the cramping leg, the cramp will last about 75 seconds. If I drink pickle juice, eat mustard or whatever, it miraculously goes away after about a minute and a quarter.
I'm not going to link again to all of the literature that says cramps have nothing to do with electrolytes.
I'm not going to link again to all of the literature that says cramps have nothing to do with electrolytes.
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04-28-21, 02:39 PM
#27
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I wonder why they call it "Lite" salt, since Potassium has a higher atomic weight? Wouldn't that make it heavier, on a molar basis?
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04-28-21, 02:50 PM
#28
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04-28-21, 02:58 PM
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Camps are basically voodoo witchcraft anyway...which is why there's so many "cures" out there.
Some research, if you're so inclined.
Exercised-Associated Muscle Cramps = EAMC
Hydration likely not a factor:
Early studies, which did not directly measure hydration in workers and fireman experiencing cramps, treated study participants with fluids and electrolytes to manage muscle cramps. However, more recent studies, which have estimated measures of blood volume and plasma volume, do not support the hypothesis of a direct relationship between dehydration and EAMC.
Schwellnus, M.P., Derman, E.W., and Noakes, T.D. (1997). Aetology of skeletal muscle 'cramps' during exercise: A novel hypothesis. Journal of Sports Science, 15(3), 277-285.
https://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Extras7/CrampsFig1.gif
THE EFFECT OF 5% HYPOHYDRATION ON MUSCLE CRAMP THRESHOLD FREQUENCY (https://library.ndsu.edu/ir/bitstrea...=1&isAllowed=y)
More Hydration Research
Serum electrolyte concentrations and hydration status are not associated with exercise associated muscle cramping (EAMC) in distance runners (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1724901/)
"There are no clinically significant alterations in serum electrolyte concentrations and there is no alteration in hydration status in runners with EAMC participating in an ultra-distance race"
Review finds painfully few surefire treatments for muscle cramps (https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...le-cramps.html)
"There is no solid formal evidence that either drinking water (tonic or otherwise) or stretching, two frequently cited non-drug approaches to reducing muscle cramps, effectively counters them. Still, neither method is likely to cause much harm if practiced in moderation. Other muscle-cramp treatments reviewed in this study include vitamin B complex, calcium-channel blocking agents often prescribed for hypertension, and anti-epileptic drugs. But the investigators concluded that more research is needed to assess the efficacy of these alternatives. “The relative lack of data on many of these compounds came as a surprise."
Banananananana's
“People are often told by their mates ‘you need to eat bananas because you need potassium’. “For starters, bananas don’t have tons of potassium in them. And even if they had, that’s probably not going to be the likely scenario, because being deficient in potassium is quite a serious condition. “Ironically, it may cause cramps; potassium is the counterbalancing electrolyte to sodium in fluid balance. But most people aren’t walking round with a severe potassium deficiency, if they were they’d be hospitalized.”
The scientific evidence of a neuromuscular theory is mounting (Giuriato, G., Pedrinolla, A., Schena, F., and Venturelli, M. (2018). Muscle cramps: a comparison of the two-leading hypothesis. Journal of Electromyography and Kinesiology. 41: 89-95.). The research appears to show that in some incidences, fatigued muscle is unable to fully relax. This condition leads to the imbalance of excitatory signals in relation to inhibitory messages to the muscle. Thus, current research findings appear to suggest that the central origin theory is the primary mechanism responsible for the muscle cramp.
My wife has used pickle juice a few times to get over cramps, I've not found anything that works other than being in better "condition" seems to eliminate cramping in my case. The more hard efforts I've done "in training" the less cramping I experience when doing harder efforts outside.
Some research, if you're so inclined.
Exercised-Associated Muscle Cramps = EAMC
Hydration likely not a factor:
Early studies, which did not directly measure hydration in workers and fireman experiencing cramps, treated study participants with fluids and electrolytes to manage muscle cramps. However, more recent studies, which have estimated measures of blood volume and plasma volume, do not support the hypothesis of a direct relationship between dehydration and EAMC.
Schwellnus, M.P., Derman, E.W., and Noakes, T.D. (1997). Aetology of skeletal muscle 'cramps' during exercise: A novel hypothesis. Journal of Sports Science, 15(3), 277-285.
https://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Extras7/CrampsFig1.gif
THE EFFECT OF 5% HYPOHYDRATION ON MUSCLE CRAMP THRESHOLD FREQUENCY (https://library.ndsu.edu/ir/bitstrea...=1&isAllowed=y)
More Hydration Research
Serum electrolyte concentrations and hydration status are not associated with exercise associated muscle cramping (EAMC) in distance runners (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1724901/)
"There are no clinically significant alterations in serum electrolyte concentrations and there is no alteration in hydration status in runners with EAMC participating in an ultra-distance race"
Review finds painfully few surefire treatments for muscle cramps (https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...le-cramps.html)
"There is no solid formal evidence that either drinking water (tonic or otherwise) or stretching, two frequently cited non-drug approaches to reducing muscle cramps, effectively counters them. Still, neither method is likely to cause much harm if practiced in moderation. Other muscle-cramp treatments reviewed in this study include vitamin B complex, calcium-channel blocking agents often prescribed for hypertension, and anti-epileptic drugs. But the investigators concluded that more research is needed to assess the efficacy of these alternatives. “The relative lack of data on many of these compounds came as a surprise."
Banananananana's
“People are often told by their mates ‘you need to eat bananas because you need potassium’. “For starters, bananas don’t have tons of potassium in them. And even if they had, that’s probably not going to be the likely scenario, because being deficient in potassium is quite a serious condition. “Ironically, it may cause cramps; potassium is the counterbalancing electrolyte to sodium in fluid balance. But most people aren’t walking round with a severe potassium deficiency, if they were they’d be hospitalized.”
The scientific evidence of a neuromuscular theory is mounting (Giuriato, G., Pedrinolla, A., Schena, F., and Venturelli, M. (2018). Muscle cramps: a comparison of the two-leading hypothesis. Journal of Electromyography and Kinesiology. 41: 89-95.). The research appears to show that in some incidences, fatigued muscle is unable to fully relax. This condition leads to the imbalance of excitatory signals in relation to inhibitory messages to the muscle. Thus, current research findings appear to suggest that the central origin theory is the primary mechanism responsible for the muscle cramp.
My wife has used pickle juice a few times to get over cramps, I've not found anything that works other than being in better "condition" seems to eliminate cramping in my case. The more hard efforts I've done "in training" the less cramping I experience when doing harder efforts outside.
Last edited by aplcr0331; 04-28-21 at 03:12 PM.
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04-28-21, 06:52 PM
#30
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I’ve tried the Acupinch method for relieving cramps over the past 20 years........with 0% success. Maybe it’ll work for some of you.
acupinch
acupinch
04-29-21, 07:49 AM
#31
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i know you think I was kidding about lavender oil but it really does relieve the cramp with in a minute,however I usually do stand up straight and use profanities so it might be a combination of all these suggested remedies seriously. I havn't tried pickle juice yet or mustard but I'll give it a go. And you are right I did ride over twice my normal ride that day but it was through the farm flats and my normal rides are in the hilly above the valley so it wasn't much more difficult. I'm really amazed how sympathetic everyone is, I really expected more laughter like my wife does! I usually have to scream SHUT UP!! to get her to stop haha!
04-29-21, 08:40 AM
#32
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Camps are basically voodoo witchcraft anyway...which is why there's so many "cures" out there.
Some research, if you're so inclined.
Exercised-Associated Muscle Cramps = EAMC
Hydration likely not a factor:
Early studies, which did not directly measure hydration in workers and fireman experiencing cramps, treated study participants with fluids and electrolytes to manage muscle cramps. However, more recent studies, which have estimated measures of blood volume and plasma volume, do not support the hypothesis of a direct relationship between dehydration and EAMC.
Schwellnus, M.P., Derman, E.W., and Noakes, T.D. (1997). Aetology of skeletal muscle 'cramps' during exercise: A novel hypothesis. Journal of Sports Science, 15(3), 277-285.
https://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Extras7/CrampsFig1.gif
THE EFFECT OF 5% HYPOHYDRATION ON MUSCLE CRAMP THRESHOLD FREQUENCY (https://library.ndsu.edu/ir/bitstrea...=1&isAllowed=y)
More Hydration Research
Serum electrolyte concentrations and hydration status are not associated with exercise associated muscle cramping (EAMC) in distance runners (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1724901/)
"There are no clinically significant alterations in serum electrolyte concentrations and there is no alteration in hydration status in runners with EAMC participating in an ultra-distance race"
Review finds painfully few surefire treatments for muscle cramps (https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...le-cramps.html)
"There is no solid formal evidence that either drinking water (tonic or otherwise) or stretching, two frequently cited non-drug approaches to reducing muscle cramps, effectively counters them. Still, neither method is likely to cause much harm if practiced in moderation. Other muscle-cramp treatments reviewed in this study include vitamin B complex, calcium-channel blocking agents often prescribed for hypertension, and anti-epileptic drugs. But the investigators concluded that more research is needed to assess the efficacy of these alternatives. “The relative lack of data on many of these compounds came as a surprise."
Banananananana's
“People are often told by their mates ‘you need to eat bananas because you need potassium’. “For starters, bananas don’t have tons of potassium in them. And even if they had, that’s probably not going to be the likely scenario, because being deficient in potassium is quite a serious condition. “Ironically, it may cause cramps; potassium is the counterbalancing electrolyte to sodium in fluid balance. But most people aren’t walking round with a severe potassium deficiency, if they were they’d be hospitalized.”
The scientific evidence of a neuromuscular theory is mounting (Giuriato, G., Pedrinolla, A., Schena, F., and Venturelli, M. (2018). Muscle cramps: a comparison of the two-leading hypothesis. Journal of Electromyography and Kinesiology. 41: 89-95.). The research appears to show that in some incidences, fatigued muscle is unable to fully relax. This condition leads to the imbalance of excitatory signals in relation to inhibitory messages to the muscle. Thus, current research findings appear to suggest that the central origin theory is the primary mechanism responsible for the muscle cramp.
My wife has used pickle juice a few times to get over cramps, I've not found anything that works other than being in better "condition" seems to eliminate cramping in my case. The more hard efforts I've done "in training" the less cramping I experience when doing harder efforts outside.
Some research, if you're so inclined.
Exercised-Associated Muscle Cramps = EAMC
Hydration likely not a factor:
Early studies, which did not directly measure hydration in workers and fireman experiencing cramps, treated study participants with fluids and electrolytes to manage muscle cramps. However, more recent studies, which have estimated measures of blood volume and plasma volume, do not support the hypothesis of a direct relationship between dehydration and EAMC.
Schwellnus, M.P., Derman, E.W., and Noakes, T.D. (1997). Aetology of skeletal muscle 'cramps' during exercise: A novel hypothesis. Journal of Sports Science, 15(3), 277-285.
https://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Extras7/CrampsFig1.gif
THE EFFECT OF 5% HYPOHYDRATION ON MUSCLE CRAMP THRESHOLD FREQUENCY (https://library.ndsu.edu/ir/bitstrea...=1&isAllowed=y)
More Hydration Research
Serum electrolyte concentrations and hydration status are not associated with exercise associated muscle cramping (EAMC) in distance runners (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1724901/)
"There are no clinically significant alterations in serum electrolyte concentrations and there is no alteration in hydration status in runners with EAMC participating in an ultra-distance race"
Review finds painfully few surefire treatments for muscle cramps (https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...le-cramps.html)
"There is no solid formal evidence that either drinking water (tonic or otherwise) or stretching, two frequently cited non-drug approaches to reducing muscle cramps, effectively counters them. Still, neither method is likely to cause much harm if practiced in moderation. Other muscle-cramp treatments reviewed in this study include vitamin B complex, calcium-channel blocking agents often prescribed for hypertension, and anti-epileptic drugs. But the investigators concluded that more research is needed to assess the efficacy of these alternatives. “The relative lack of data on many of these compounds came as a surprise."
Banananananana's
“People are often told by their mates ‘you need to eat bananas because you need potassium’. “For starters, bananas don’t have tons of potassium in them. And even if they had, that’s probably not going to be the likely scenario, because being deficient in potassium is quite a serious condition. “Ironically, it may cause cramps; potassium is the counterbalancing electrolyte to sodium in fluid balance. But most people aren’t walking round with a severe potassium deficiency, if they were they’d be hospitalized.”
The scientific evidence of a neuromuscular theory is mounting (Giuriato, G., Pedrinolla, A., Schena, F., and Venturelli, M. (2018). Muscle cramps: a comparison of the two-leading hypothesis. Journal of Electromyography and Kinesiology. 41: 89-95.). The research appears to show that in some incidences, fatigued muscle is unable to fully relax. This condition leads to the imbalance of excitatory signals in relation to inhibitory messages to the muscle. Thus, current research findings appear to suggest that the central origin theory is the primary mechanism responsible for the muscle cramp.
My wife has used pickle juice a few times to get over cramps, I've not found anything that works other than being in better "condition" seems to eliminate cramping in my case. The more hard efforts I've done "in training" the less cramping I experience when doing harder efforts outside.
People can't even agree on lack of which electrolyte is supposed to be the cause (magnesium was a popular candidate on BF for a while), but the whole electrolyte thing doesn't make any sense. A cramp is usually a very localized phenomenon, generally only happening to only one muscle at a time, and for a very limited duration. Electrolyte deficiency is a very serious system-wide health issue--if it were causing cramps, why would it be one muscle at a time, and for such a limited duration?
The reason there's so many "remedies" is very simple. Generally, no matter what you do, the cramp is going to go away in a matter of seconds or minutes, so it's ripe territory for the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
I'm with you, I generally only get cramps when I'm ramping up my activity level.
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04-29-21, 08:43 AM
#33
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i know you think I was kidding about lavender oil but it really does relieve the cramp with in a minute,however I usually do stand up straight and use profanities so it might be a combination of all these suggested remedies seriously. I havn't tried pickle juice yet or mustard but I'll give it a go. And you are right I did ride over twice my normal ride that day but it was through the farm flats and my normal rides are in the hilly above the valley so it wasn't much more difficult. I'm really amazed how sympathetic everyone is, I really expected more laughter like my wife does! I usually have to scream SHUT UP!! to get her to stop haha!
Laughing at someone who's having a cramp doesn't strike me as a good idea unless you want the stream of profanities to be aimed at you.
04-29-21, 08:54 AM
#34
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Cramps are 90% half mental. The other half is physical. I think it's clear that I usually have cramps when I exert myself too much or for too long. Heat makes things worse because it reduces muscular capacity. That's why cramps usually happen in the spring, before you train enough in the heat to build up your muscles to withstand it. The problem that leaves is how to get back to the finish once you start cramping? I have high blood pressure so salts are bad. Also, potassium is corrosive, so most electrolyte pills can cause gastric distress if you use too many. I found that just the act of taking one will immediately cause a cramp to go away in most cases, so I started just putting one in my mouth. And that works, until the casing explodes and you end up with a big mouth ulcer. So I spit them out once they start to feel soft. I thoughts about making something that I don't have to ingest or worry about exploding in my mouth, but haven't gotten around to experimenting yet.
04-29-21, 08:54 AM
#35
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i know you think I was kidding about lavender oil but it really does relieve the cramp with in a minute,however I usually do stand up straight and use profanities so it might be a combination of all these suggested remedies seriously. I havn't tried pickle juice yet or mustard but I'll give it a go. And you are right I did ride over twice my normal ride that day but it was through the farm flats and my normal rides are in the hilly above the valley so it wasn't much more difficult. I'm really amazed how sympathetic everyone is, I really expected more laughter like my wife does! I usually have to scream SHUT UP!! to get her to stop haha!
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04-29-21, 09:47 AM
#36
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While riding a 200k in northern New Mexico (Strava link) I've had both quads simultaneously spasm HARD during a big day of fast riding and a fair amount of climbing behind two other riders who were much stronger and much lighter than I, so I spent too much time putting out big efforts trying to not get dropped and didn't focus on my hydration like I knew I should have. Once it happened, I stopped and unclipped, but then I couldn't get off the bike since both legs were soooo locked up and in excruciating pain, that I had to let myself fall over onto the ground gracefully and I just laid there for 30 minutes watching my muscles writhe and twitch while the other riders went up Capulin Volcano without me (though they got rained out and couldn't make it to the top, which made me feel a little less bad about not attempting it). I learned a life lesson about hydration that day, that's for sure.
First ride today in a long time. Gonna go drink some water, thanks.
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04-29-21, 11:05 AM
#37
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Yeah, but it's unlikely they'd be able to chase you down and hurt you physically, what with the leg cramp and all.
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04-29-21, 12:43 PM
#38
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04-29-21, 12:45 PM
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Cramps are 90% half mental. The other half is physical. I think it's clear that I usually have cramps when I exert myself too much or for too long. Heat makes things worse because it reduces muscular capacity. That's why cramps usually happen in the spring, before you train enough in the heat to build up your muscles to withstand it. The problem that leaves is how to get back to the finish once you start cramping? I have high blood pressure so salts are bad. Also, potassium is corrosive, so most electrolyte pills can cause gastric distress if you use too many. I found that just the act of taking one will immediately cause a cramp to go away in most cases, so I started just putting one in my mouth. And that works, until the casing explodes and you end up with a big mouth ulcer. So I spit them out once they start to feel soft. I thoughts about making something that I don't have to ingest or worry about exploding in my mouth, but haven't gotten around to experimenting yet.
04-29-21, 02:39 PM
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Woke up at 5:30 this morning with a cramped calf muscle that was excrutiating. Felt like a solid lump in the calf.
Out of pure desperation I looked for pickles to try the pickle juice option - all I had was sauerkraut. Worked almost instantly much to my relief. The cramp was gone before I got back to bed
I'm guessing the magic is the vinegar: it's the common ingredient between pickle juice, sauerkraut juice and the mustard mentioned above.
Not sure if the magic is anything other than confusing the brain.
I don't even care - I'm just super happy that it worked, and worked so fast.
Out of pure desperation I looked for pickles to try the pickle juice option - all I had was sauerkraut. Worked almost instantly much to my relief. The cramp was gone before I got back to bed
I'm guessing the magic is the vinegar: it's the common ingredient between pickle juice, sauerkraut juice and the mustard mentioned above.
Not sure if the magic is anything other than confusing the brain.
I don't even care - I'm just super happy that it worked, and worked so fast.
04-29-21, 03:23 PM
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If you find cramps creeping up on you when you ride, there's a possibility that you lack potassium.
Eat more bananas, potatoes, sweet potatoes and mushrooms! Though, I personally tried applying coconut oil and it works.
Eat more bananas, potatoes, sweet potatoes and mushrooms! Though, I personally tried applying coconut oil and it works.
04-29-21, 06:53 PM
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For some unknown reason, bananas don't do a darn thing for me, not sure about potatoes, but mushrooms don't work either for me either. I find I cramp more when I try spinning at a higher 80 plus RPMs, figure that one out. When I pedal past the 80's and I feel a cramp coming on, which usually takes about an hour, then I slow the cadience down but shift into a harder gear to maintain my speed then the cramping will slowly go away, then go back to higher RPM in an easier gear and slowing it returns.
04-29-21, 07:13 PM
#44
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I've been so lazy in the last ...too long, i totally forgot about leg cramps!
You've got me quite worried now. i have not ridden in 12 years, and im lovin it so much i just did 12km.. only stopped cos it was getting late heh
You've got me quite worried now. i have not ridden in 12 years, and im lovin it so much i just did 12km.. only stopped cos it was getting late heh
04-30-21, 02:54 AM
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04-30-21, 03:00 AM
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04-30-21, 05:00 AM
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If you lack potassium, you're going to be too sick to ride. This "connection" has been thoroughly debunked. Eating that stuff is fine, but I get a little up in arms about this because people start gobbling down pills and powders, and that really can be risky.
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04-30-21, 05:58 AM
#49
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How Does A Teaspoon of Mustard Cure Muscle Cramps? | The People's Pharmacy (peoplespharmacy.com)
Is there hope for leg cramp sufferers? - Harvard Health
The taste of mustard and pickle juice are believed to affect on the central nervous system, ultimately turning off overexcited neurons.
Is there hope for leg cramp sufferers? - Harvard Health
The taste of mustard and pickle juice are believed to affect on the central nervous system, ultimately turning off overexcited neurons.
04-30-21, 05:59 AM
#50
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I know it makes no sense to me either it's my wives remedy she keeps several small bottles by my night stand and in the bathroom in case I wake up howling in the night and believe me it works. I actually rarely get cramps I guess it's only when I get frisky and over do it.