Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Classic era touring rear derailleur

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Classic era touring rear derailleur

Old 08-18-21, 11:27 AM
  #26  
BFisher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,336
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 767 Post(s)
Liked 1,897 Times in 889 Posts
Simplex SLJ 5500 or 6600 GT?
BFisher is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 11:32 AM
  #27  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 11,001

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 276 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2182 Post(s)
Liked 4,522 Times in 1,742 Posts
Originally Posted by gravelinmygears
(...) The bike I originally posted about is a Cinelli SC that I'm building up from the frame. Most of it is Campy NR but I'm straying from the narrow freewheel.
In that case you have no choice. Campagnolo. In whatever shape or form.

My two cents.
__________________
Are we having fun, or what ...



non-fixie is offline  
Likes For non-fixie:
Old 08-18-21, 11:45 AM
  #28  
steelbikeguy
Senior Member
 
steelbikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 4,449
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1820 Post(s)
Liked 3,324 Times in 1,563 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac
Wow, that could have "sucked" way more on the Hetchins, glad it didn't take out a chainstay.
I was worried more about the paint than the steel, but there certainly were a lot of ways that the incident could have been worse.

A pleasant surprise is that the electrical tape under the front derailleur clamp served as a layer that allowed the derailleur to rotate without tearing up paint! The derailleur was able to be bent back into shape with great care, and is in use today.

The outboard spokes on the right flange of the rear hub had to be replaced, though. The chain was jammed in so tight that the spokes were badly damaged, and even the hub flange was scratched up. I had to remove the freewheel to get the chain released!

Steve in Peoria
steelbikeguy is offline  
Likes For steelbikeguy:
Old 08-18-21, 11:50 AM
  #29  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,097

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4493 Post(s)
Liked 6,295 Times in 3,631 Posts
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
I was worried more about the paint than the steel, but there certainly were a lot of ways that the incident could have been worse.

A pleasant surprise is that the electrical tape under the front derailleur clamp served as a layer that allowed the derailleur to rotate without tearing up paint! The derailleur was able to be bent back into shape with great care, and is in use today.

The outboard spokes on the right flange of the rear hub had to be replaced, though. The chain was jammed in so tight that the spokes were badly damaged, and even the hub flange was scratched up. I had to remove the freewheel to get the chain released!

Steve in Peoria
Again, WOW, glad it was no more catastrophic than it was.
merziac is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 11:59 AM
  #30  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,097

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4493 Post(s)
Liked 6,295 Times in 3,631 Posts
Originally Posted by gravelinmygears
It's funny that you ask....this discussion got me thinking about another bike that has a non-period rear derailleur - my late 70s / early 80s Ritchey road. All Campagnolo except the rear derailleur is a Deore XT. Shifts great but I'm thinking I may try something different on there.

The bike I originally posted about is a Cinelli SC that I'm building up from the frame. Most of it is Campy NR but I'm straying from the narrow freewheel.
Campy NR with long cages would make Spence Wolf proud as he made his own cages for his alpine gearing SC's, any chance yours came from him originally?
merziac is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 12:04 PM
  #31  
gravelinmygears 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 292

Bikes: 64 Cinelli, 81 Merz, Haral

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac
Campy NR with long cages would make Spence Wolf proud as he made his own cages for his alpine gearing SC's, any chance yours came from him originally?
I don’t think so. The original owner lived here in the southwest.

I’d love to have one of those cages.
gravelinmygears is offline  
Likes For gravelinmygears:
Old 08-18-21, 12:06 PM
  #32  
SwimmerMike 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 823

Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissim, 1976 Colnago Super. 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Liked 919 Times in 380 Posts
Originally Posted by gravelinmygears
It's funny that you ask....this discussion got me thinking about another bike that has a non-period rear derailleur - my late 70s / early 80s Ritchey road. All Campagnolo except the rear derailleur is a Deore XT. Shifts great but I'm thinking I may try something different on there.

The bike I originally posted about is a Cinelli SC that I'm building up from the frame. Most of it is Campy NR but I'm straying from the narrow freewheel.
I'm thinking in needs to be Campy on a Cinelli. Period correct would be the Rally or a NR/SR with a long cage (based on the modifications by Spence Wolf at Cupertino Bike Shop). I started off with a SOMA long cage adapter on a NR. It worked OK. Then I acquired a Rally. I like it a lot better, it may be my set-up but I find it tracks closer to rear cogs and shifts better that the NR with a long cage.
Attached Images
SwimmerMike is offline  
Likes For SwimmerMike:
Old 08-18-21, 12:27 PM
  #33  
machinist42
mycocyclist
 
machinist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 2,239

Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 901 Post(s)
Liked 802 Times in 441 Posts
Pay The Piper

Originally Posted by gravelinmygears
...The bike I originally posted about is a Cinelli SC that I'm building up from the frame...
Pics or it ain't happening, Pal.
machinist42 is offline  
Likes For machinist42:
Old 08-18-21, 12:34 PM
  #34  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,097

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4493 Post(s)
Liked 6,295 Times in 3,631 Posts
Originally Posted by gravelinmygears
I don’t think so. The original owner lived here in the southwest.

I’d love to have one of those cages.
Boulder bicycles and Soma have them, not cheap but still worth it, maybe.

https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/pro...0?category=961

Polished Soma Rally type Cage plates for Nuovo Record type derailleur

Spence's were a bit crude to be sure but must have worked well as he sold plenty of them I think.

Another Merz segway as he built several bikes for Spence as the touring thing ramped up with few serious options at the time.
merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:
Old 08-18-21, 12:39 PM
  #35  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,097

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4493 Post(s)
Liked 6,295 Times in 3,631 Posts
Originally Posted by gravelinmygears
I don’t think so. The original owner lived here in the southwest.

I’d love to have one of those cages.
If it's old enough, its possible, Spence's reach was far and wide, as was Jim's.
merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:
Old 08-18-21, 04:09 PM
  #36  
DiegoFrogs
Senior Member
 
DiegoFrogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Scranton, PA, USA
Posts: 2,570

Bikes: '77 Centurion "Pro Tour"; '67 Carlton "The Flyer"; 1984 Ross MTB (stored at parents' house)

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 61 Posts
I'd go with the Cyclone GT, for sure, and I even had the same spring failure documented above. Technologically advanced, light, elegant, beautiful.

I managed to bend a new tab on my spring to make it functional enough and eventually found in my toolbox the remains of another lower-end GT derailleur from Suntour that I bought for parts. Sure enough, it fit and worked great. As I recall, I bought it for a few dollars at a shop in Nob Hill in ABQ that moved or closed not long after!
DiegoFrogs is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 04:53 PM
  #37  
gravelinmygears 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 292

Bikes: 64 Cinelli, 81 Merz, Haral

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by DiegoFrogs
As I recall, I bought it for a few dollars at a shop in Nob Hill in ABQ that moved or closed not long after!
HA! There are no old parts left in Albuquerque shops. They've all been hidden aware in the barrows of ancient collectors in the foothills. I have to wait until they die and their children liquidate.
gravelinmygears is offline  
Likes For gravelinmygears:
Old 08-18-21, 06:00 PM
  #38  
gravelinmygears 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 292

Bikes: 64 Cinelli, 81 Merz, Haral

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by machinist42
Pics or it ain't happening, Pal.
gravelinmygears is offline  
Likes For gravelinmygears:
Old 08-18-21, 06:08 PM
  #39  
steelbikeguy
Senior Member
 
steelbikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 4,449
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1820 Post(s)
Liked 3,324 Times in 1,563 Posts
Originally Posted by DiegoFrogs
I'd go with the Cyclone GT, for sure, and I even had the same spring failure documented above. Technologically advanced, light, elegant, beautiful.

I managed to bend a new tab on my spring to make it functional enough and eventually found in my toolbox the remains of another lower-end GT derailleur from Suntour that I bought for parts. Sure enough, it fit and worked great. As I recall, I bought it for a few dollars at a shop in Nob Hill in ABQ that moved or closed not long after!
after the spring failure, I did start a search on that e-bay auction thing. Managed to find an ugly old Cyclone with a good spring, but also found one or two Cyclones that managed to escape everyone else's attention. Doesn't hurt to look for the short cage version, since you can always transfer the long pulley cage over to it, and people don't seem to be interested in the short cage versions as much.

Steve in Peoria
steelbikeguy is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 06:12 PM
  #40  
DiegoFrogs
Senior Member
 
DiegoFrogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Scranton, PA, USA
Posts: 2,570

Bikes: '77 Centurion "Pro Tour"; '67 Carlton "The Flyer"; 1984 Ross MTB (stored at parents' house)

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 61 Posts
Originally Posted by gravelinmygears
HA! There are no old parts left in Albuquerque shops. They've all been hidden aware in the barrows of ancient collectors in the foothills. I have to wait until they die and their children liquidate.
I moved away in 2012 after a couple years as an apartment dweller in the foothills. It didn't seem like there was much of a vintage cycling vibe in the area.

I did buy, at the same shop, Campy sidepull brakes, a Campy headset and a 27.2 mm Campy fluted single-bolt seatpost. Also picked up my Carlton frame and fork at a bikeswap there, and some other components at an additional bikeswap a short time later.

I enjoyed it there, but never had so many flats in my life... Goatheads!
DiegoFrogs is offline  
Likes For DiegoFrogs:
Old 08-18-21, 06:37 PM
  #41  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,097

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4493 Post(s)
Liked 6,295 Times in 3,631 Posts
Originally Posted by gravelinmygears
Whoomp, they it is.

If you call Cupertino, Greg may be able to tell you if it was sold new from there. He has Spence's ledger.

Most, many in this part of the country, West coast, West of the Rockies came from Cupertino.
merziac is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 06:53 PM
  #42  
niliraga 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 557

Bikes: 1970s Coppi/Fiorelli beater, 1973 Raleigh Competition, 1972 Bob Jackson, 1970 Cilo Sprint-X, 1985 Fuji Touring Series IV, 1969 Legnano Roma

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 217 Post(s)
Liked 198 Times in 129 Posts
well heck, for a slightly dog-eared Cinelli SC like this stunner I reckon you should just slap one of those generic transformer-alien style Shimano Alivio units on it and go for maximum cognitive dissonance.

Also, likely that it will shift as well as any of the Deores.

Kidding aside, I vote for the Cyclone on this beastie, since it would have been a logical upgrade at some point in its life.




Originally Posted by gravelinmygears
It's funny that you ask....this discussion got me thinking about another bike that has a non-period rear derailleur - my late 70s / early 80s Ritchey road. All Campagnolo except the rear derailleur is a Deore XT. Shifts great but I'm thinking I may try something different on there.

The bike I originally posted about is a Cinelli SC that I'm building up from the frame. Most of it is Campy NR but I'm straying from the narrow freewheel.
niliraga is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 07:19 PM
  #43  
daka
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 501

Bikes: Raleigh Super Course, Raleigh International, Raleigh Gran Sport

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked 308 Times in 195 Posts
I say build it like Cino would have and push it up the steep stuff. Putting asian or even french parts on a Cinelli strikes me as being just plain wrong.
daka is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 07:19 PM
  #44  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,853

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 654 Times in 498 Posts
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
I'm a big fan of the Cyclone GT, but I'm just running a 13-30 cassette..



The SunTour VGT is going to shift just as well, weigh a bit more, and be more robust.

The Shimano Crane is pretty sexy too, and likely works great.

The Huret Duopar has French charm, but a weird way to attach to the dropout and a potentially fragile 2nd parallelogram. Might be the derailleur for you if you like living dangerously!

The Campagnolo Rally might be fine, but when you think touring, you don't think "Campagnolo". Never made any sense to me.

Steve in Peoria, with a distinct Japanese bias when it comes to touring gear.
I would go for the Duopar. I’ve had a few of them, with no breakages. One still in service!
Road Fan is offline  
Old 08-18-21, 08:07 PM
  #45  
SwimmerMike 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 823

Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissim, 1976 Colnago Super. 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Liked 919 Times in 380 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac
Whoomp, they it is.

If you call Cupertino, Greg may be able to tell you if it was sold new from there. He has Spence's ledger.

Most, many in this part of the country, West coast, West of the Rockies came from Cupertino.

As an FYI, Greg works W-Fr afternoons, so that would be when you could catch him.
SwimmerMike is offline  
Likes For SwimmerMike:
Old 08-18-21, 09:28 PM
  #46  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,097

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4493 Post(s)
Liked 6,295 Times in 3,631 Posts
Wish mine had all that chrome.
merziac is offline  
Old 08-19-21, 03:37 AM
  #47  
mtbikerjohn 
Full Member
 
mtbikerjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: near Detroit
Posts: 319

Bikes: a few..

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 92 Posts
Originally Posted by DiegoFrogs
I'd go with the Cyclone GT, for sure, and I even had the same spring failure documented above. Technologically advanced, light, elegant, beautiful.

I managed to bend a new tab on my spring to make it functional enough and eventually found in my toolbox the remains of another lower-end GT derailleur from Suntour that I bought for parts. Sure enough, it fit and worked great. As I recall, I bought it for a few dollars at a shop in Nob Hill in ABQ that moved or closed not long after!
I think you might be thinking of the Bike Coop,which used to be in Nob Hill on Central Ave. They were still in business as of 2020, but have moved to Silver Ave. by the campus.
mtbikerjohn is offline  
Old 08-19-21, 05:18 AM
  #48  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,094 Times in 1,311 Posts
I have had the Deore XT, Duopar, and Cyclone GT on an old touring bike at one time or another. The Cyclone GT broke on a tour in France and of course, a Huret went on. Then, after many miles I upgraded to the XT in the mid or late 80's. The Huret was a good derailleur and the second best shifter after the Deore. I'd get the Huret.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Old 08-19-21, 09:45 AM
  #49  
gugie 
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,638

Bikes: It's complicated.

Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4667 Post(s)
Liked 5,764 Times in 2,270 Posts
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
well, I'm a fan of the Cyclone GT and have used them since they were new. Still, I feel compelled to mention that I've had two where the lower pivot spring has broken.


I created a thread about this on the I-Bob group, and was surprised at how many folks have suffered various types of failures.

Steve in Peoria
Same experience. I broke one of those springs last year, but was able to carefully ride home about 10 miles after getting the chain in the big plate to take up as much slack as possible. @Andy_K had the same thing happen to one of those 3 pulley LePrees, which uses the same design I believe.
Based on my rememberance, I think the lifetime of the original Cyclone derailleurs is adequate, however unless you know it's got low mileage on one, I'd consider that there is some risk of this happening to you.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Likes For gugie:
Old 08-19-21, 10:02 AM
  #50  
gravelinmygears 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 292

Bikes: 64 Cinelli, 81 Merz, Haral

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by mtbikerjohn
I think you might be thinking of the Bike Coop,which used to be in Nob Hill on Central Ave. They were still in business as of 2020, but have moved to Silver Ave. by the campus.
That's what I was thinking - the Coop. Unfortunately they no longer deal in old parts. The new owners seem to be focusing on custom builds with modern parts for the college crowd. I miss talking to Greg and the other guys there about racing in the 70s/80s and searching for pulley wheels in the boneyard. Those days are gone.
gravelinmygears is offline  
Likes For gravelinmygears:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.